The TLR Manager Thread

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

April 2: this was not opening day. The white Sox won this game.

April 5: the Sox won this game 6 to 0. Foster did not blow the game evidently. 

April 13: Yermin started this game, Bieber did not pitch this game. Hendriks did not pitch this game. 

 

Fake news Balta! Rescind the likes he got for the post!

Haha I know what game is being referred to for that April 5th game but don't know the date. It was that third game against Seattle.

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Haha I know what game is being referred to for that April 5th game but don't know the date. It was that third game against Seattle.

Lol, so it was April 4th. Bummer did indeed come in on April 4 though, with the game tied. Balta's timeline is all jacked up. Mistakes that happened in 1 game are spread across multiple games.

Edit: Nvm, that one was April 7 against Seattle. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by ron883

[Dominikk85]

I wonder if Jerry and TLR could save face by giving Tony a young, sabermetrically leaning bench coach who reminds tony to pull a tired starter or pinch hit for billy hamilton. We all know jerry calls the shots and not Hahn so Hahn basically has to carefully talk Jerry into such an idea so Tony can finish the season, Jerry and Tony save face and then Tony retires in the off season and the young guy takes over.

[y2chae]

6 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I wonder if Jerry and TLR could save face by giving Tony a young, sabermetrically leaning bench coach who reminds tony to pull a tired starter or pinch hit for billy hamilton. We all know jerry calls the shots and not Hahn so Hahn basically has to carefully talk Jerry into such an idea so Tony can finish the season, Jerry and Tony save face and then Tony retires in the off season and the young guy takes over.

Cairo is highly regarded, not sure how much he leans on sabermetrics but ideally he is being groomed to eventually take over.  

[South Side Hit Men]

55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

More important than the person was the process.

Little Ricky said this himself - he wanted to go outside the organization, talk to a number of people, and evaluate his next coach while also learning about where managers though his team and the game would go. That would have been exactly the right process -

How could they possibly learn more from anyone going beyond Tony La Russa*?

Tony knows many of the rules baseball, and is an expert on the unwritten rules.

(* setting aside the shameful token interview conducted of Willie Harris to “comply” with the Selig Rule).

Jerry Reinsdorf on Tony LaRussa returning to managing, February 2020:

"Managing, it just takes an awful lot out of you. There's nothing else for him to accomplish. You know, he's won three World Series, and uh, he's in the Hall of Fame. And so, there's no reason for him to go back to managing,  and have to try to deal with people 22 years old when you're 75 years old."

 6:23 mark

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Lotssss of errors in here. What were you looking at?

April 2: this was not opening day. The white Sox won this game.

April 4: Lynn started, followed by Heuer, then Bummer came in when it was 4-4. 

April 5: the Sox won this game 6 to 0. Foster did not blow the game evidently. 

April 13: Yermin started this game, Bieber did not pitch this game. Hendriks did not pitch this game. 

 

Fake news Balta! Rescind the likes he got for the post!

The date that posts appeared in this thread, so those might all be 1 calendar day late/talking about the night before game. Will get that fixed tonight.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

Yeah I gotta go with this. Jerry wanted LaRussa and no one else was seriously considered.

I think that's right.  As they say..." rank has its privileges."

[champagne030]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Dude all I’m saying is maybe the long-term guy to lead the white Sox WASNT OUT THERE THIS OFFSEASON in the eyes of our FO.  
 

Isn’t that possible?   Wouldn’t that kind of explain this?

This is garbage.  The FO wasn't able to look for their guy because our dumbass owner wanted to try and fix what he thinks was a wrong committed decades ago and hire his drunk and senile friend.

[MikeKreevich]

I went back and rewatched the 10th inning and listened to see if I had missed  Jason Bennetti or Len Kasper question the use of Liam Hendriks as the designated runner at second base.  They hadn't questioned it and Kasper told us that was the way it should work.  BENNETTI DID'NT KNOW!

Being that LaRussa is a American League manager and highly unlikely to have ever thought about a pitcher used in this situation, I find it ludicrous that he is getting so much criticism.  

My guess is it's coming from those that didn't want Tony to manage the Sox.

We lost because we have a couple people on our roster now that couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag.  

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Lotssss of errors in here. What were you looking at?

April 2: this was not opening day. The white Sox won this game.

April 4: Lynn started, followed by Heuer, then Bummer came in when it was 4-4. 

April 5: the Sox won this game 6 to 0. Foster did not blow the game evidently. 

April 13: Yermin started this game, Bieber did not pitch this game. Hendriks did not pitch this game. 

 

Fake news Balta! Rescind the likes he got for the post!

Cleaned up the dates. For reference, here is the April 13 box score where Bieber pitched.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA202104130.shtml

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, MikeKreevich said:

I went back and rewatched the 10th inning and listened to see if I had missed  Jason Bennetti or Len Kasper question the use of Liam Hendriks as the designated runner at second base.  They hadn't questioned it and Kasper told us that was the way it should work.  BENNETTI DID'NT KNOW!

Being that LaRussa is a American League manager and highly unlikely to have ever thought about a pitcher used in this situation, I find it ludicrous that he is getting so much criticism.  

My guess is it's coming from those that didn't want Tony to manage the Sox.

We lost because we have a couple people on our roster now that couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag.  

 

I went to the popcorn vendor and asked if they knew whether Tony could have inserted Jose Abreu instead of Liam Hendriks as the 10th inning runner. She laughed and said “That’s not my job, that’s the manager’s job.”

PS - Listen to DJ’s radio broadcast during the 10th if you have access. DJ, who is nearly always positive, was livid. He said multiple times he didn’t know what the Sox were doing and criticized at least three TLR decisions.

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I went to the popcorn vendor and asked if they knew whether Tony could have inserted Jose Abreu instead of Liam Hendriks as the 10th inning runner. She laughed and said “That’s not my job, that’s the manager’s job.”

PS - Listen to DJ’s radio broadcast during the 10th if you have access. DJ, who is nearly always positive, was livid. He said multiple times he didn’t know what the Sox were doing and criticized at least three TLR decisions.

Guess he’s going to have to get a job with the Cubs now, a reverse Stone/Caray.   Well, he started his playing career there...

[Big Hurtin]

46 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Guess he’s going to have to get a job with the Cubs now, a reverse Stone/Caray.   Well, he started his playing career there...

From some stuff people have posted from Stone's Twitter, and some stuff he's said during games, I have a feeling Stone's lips are going to be getting a little looser.

[hankchifan]

Sox have the most blown saves in MLB.  Not sure in how many there was bullpen mismanagement by TLR , but I am sure he was a factor in some of them.

[soxguy456]

25 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Sox have the most blown saves in MLB.  Not sure in how many there was bullpen mismanagement by TLR , but I am sure he was a factor in some of them.

MLB? No. They lead the American league with 7 tho... somehow the dodgers have blown 12 

[Texsox]

4 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Dude all I’m saying is maybe the long-term guy to lead the white Sox WASNT OUT THERE THIS OFFSEASON in the eyes of our FO.  
 

Isn’t that possible?   Wouldn’t that kind of explain this?

I like the thought but the biggest stumbling block for me is why dump Renteria for a one season stop gap when he only had one season left on his contract? He just came off his only +.500 season. 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, MikeKreevich said:

I went back and rewatched the 10th inning and listened to see if I had missed  Jason Bennetti or Len Kasper question the use of Liam Hendriks as the designated runner at second base.  They hadn't questioned it and Kasper told us that was the way it should work.  BENNETTI DID'NT KNOW!

Being that LaRussa is a American League manager and highly unlikely to have ever thought about a pitcher used in this situation, I find it ludicrous that he is getting so much criticism.  

My guess is it's coming from those that didn't want Tony to manage the Sox.

We lost because we have a couple people on our roster now that couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag.  

 

I didn’t want Tony to manage and now want him even less. But I agree with you. Plus there is no advanced stats to guide the manager. I would be more inclined to criticize him If this was even a rule that was in place when he was managing in the NL. But it’s made up COVID, speed up, attention deficit, finish the game before the 10 o’clock news rule that no one has much experience with. 

[soxguy456]

I just don't see whats so hard about reading all of the language of a new rule. Seems like something every manager should do. It shouldn't take an in game experience to learn something that is new this year. David Bell said this when asked about it "the league made it really clear that it was going to be a new rule in spring training" 

 

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Sox have the most blown saves in MLB.  Not sure in how many there was bullpen mismanagement by TLR , but I am sure he was a factor in some of them.

Tough to do with the Twins around to challenge them for worst (albeit much cheaper) pen...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2021/05/06/tony-la-russa-managerial-mistakes-chicago-white-sox/4966423001/

“Chicago White Sox's Tony La Russa's managerial mistakes continue to mount”

Edited May 7, 2021 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

8 hours ago, soxguy456 said:

I just don't see whats so hard about reading all of the language of a new rule. Seems like something every manager should do. It shouldn't take an in game experience to learn something that is new this year. David Bell said this when asked about it "the league made it really clear that it was going to be a new rule in spring training" 

 

I just went through with the major changes to the rules of golf. I read them. Passed the USGA test. And you start getting into situations that are more complex than you’ve encountered before and it’s tough to get them right. We see umpires huddling at times trying to figure some variation on rules and how they apply. When you say the league was that the National League, the American League or both? 
 

Look at all the variables that happened in this specific situation. It wasn’t basic by any stretch. If people feel compelled to yell about every misstep he makes, go for it. I’m complaining about a few things myself. But I’m just not too upset about him blowing a fucked up National league rule as an American League manager. I’d rather complain that we need to stop playing these games until there is a uniform set of rules in place for all of baseball. I’d rather complain that putting any guy at second is teeballesque bull.
 

Let’s just have each team put out in their best gamers and spin a wheel to see which esports game they play. That will help attract new sponsors and younger fans. Why even play baseball to end a tie?
 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

12 hours ago, MikeKreevich said:

I went back and rewatched the 10th inning and listened to see if I had missed  Jason Bennetti or Len Kasper question the use of Liam Hendriks as the designated runner at second base.  They hadn't questioned it and Kasper told us that was the way it should work.  BENNETTI DID'NT KNOW!

Being that LaRussa is a American League manager and highly unlikely to have ever thought about a pitcher used in this situation, I find it ludicrous that he is getting so much criticism.  

My guess is it's coming from those that didn't want Tony to manage the Sox.

We lost because we have a couple people on our roster now that couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag.  

 

Again, who cares if the announcers didn’t know the rules?  They aren’t in charge of the in-game strategy.  And this idea La Russa should get a free pass because he’s an “AL Manager” is absolutely ludicrous.  It’s 100% unacceptable he didn’t know that rule and that has NOTHING to do with his advanced age, his 10 years away from the game, or his questionable character (the main reasons people didn’t want him).  If Tony was actually managing like a “Hall of Fame baseball person” most people would be fine with him right, but we simply haven’t gotten this elite tactician that we were promised.  Instead we’ve gotten a guy who been a huge detriment to the team and has been far worse so far than his predecessor many here (including myself) wanted to see fired.

I have no idea how anyone could be watching these games and still feel the need to defend La Russa, especially after his lack of awareness could have resulted in our highly paid closer getting injured.  And by the way, it wasn’t his lack of understanding of a rule that contributed to the loss, it was the many other decisions he made late in the game like having Leury steal and not putting Winker on 1st with an open base.  Our offense scoring zero runs and Tony making poor tactical decisions aren’t mutually exclusive and can both be reasons we lost the game.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 hours ago, soxguy456 said:

I just don't see whats so hard about reading all of the language of a new rule. Seems like something every manager should do. It shouldn't take an in game experience to learn something that is new this year. David Bell said this when asked about it "the league made it really clear that it was going to be a new rule in spring training" 

 

It’s basic common sense.  Even the guys in the dugout questioned it immediately because it’s seem very unlikely Major League Baseball would force you to run your pitcher in such a scenario.  Turns out there was a rule for this and one that is super easy to understand if you’re actually doing your jobs and reading all the rule changes for the current season.  Zero excuse to not know this rule and even worse is Tony not questioning it himself after people came up to him about it.

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I just went through with the major changes to the rules of golf. I read them. Passed the USGA test. And you start getting into situations that are more complex than you’ve encountered before and it’s tough to get them right. We see umpires huddling at times trying to figure some variation on rules and how they apply. When you say the league was that the National League, the American League or both? 
 

Look at all the variables that happened in this specific situation. It wasn’t basic by any stretch. If people feel compelled to yell about every misstep he makes, go for it. I’m complaining about a few things myself. But I’m just not too upset about him blowing a fucked up National league rule as an American League manager. I’d rather complain that we need to stop playing these games until there is a uniform set of rules in place for all of baseball. I’d rather complain that putting any guy at second is teeballesque bull.
 

Let’s just have each team put out in their best gamers and spin a wheel to see which esports game they play. That will help attract new sponsors and younger fans. Why even play baseball to end a tie?
 

 

How is it a “fucked up NL rule” exactly?  We play 10 inter-league games on the road.  And it’s not a complex rule at all.  I’m sorry but Tony is not deserving of a free pass here.

[flavum]

Not knowing the rule was an organizational failure. You can’t know something you were never told. I’m not saying Tony was never told pitchers don’t have to run in extras...I don’t know. But somebody in that dugout needs to speak up if they knew. Or better yet, before they even go to Cincinnati, somebody in the front office reminds the coaching staff of the rule in case it happens. It’s like a 1st base coach reminding a runner how many outs there are. The runner should know, but just in case, you tell him. That was Sox organizational failure. Billy Hamilton hitting, on the other hand, that was all La Russa stupidity. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by flavum

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Again, who cares if the announcers didn’t know the rules?  They aren’t in charge of the in-game strategy.  And this idea La Russa should get a free pass because he’s an “AL Manager” is absolutely ludicrous.  It’s 100% unacceptable he didn’t know that rule and that has NOTHING to do with his advanced age, his 10 years away from the game, or his questionable character (the main reasons people didn’t want him).  If Tony was actually managing like a “Hall of Fame baseball person” most people would be fine with him right, but we simply haven’t gotten this elite tactician that we were promised.  Instead we’ve gotten a guy who been a huge detriment to the team and has been far worse so far than his predecessor many here (including myself) wanted to see fired.

I have no idea how anyone could be watching these games and still feel the need to defend La Russa, especially after his lack of awareness could have resulted in our highly paid closer getting injured.  And by the way, it wasn’t his lack of understanding of a rule that contributed to the loss, it was the many other decisions he made late in the game like having Leury steal and not putting Winker on 1st with an open base.  Our offense scoring zero runs and Tony making poor tactical decisions aren’t mutually exclusive and can both be reasons we lost the game.

The inning before, bottom of the 9th, they walked Naquin (ice cold hitter) to face India, who was 9/20 with RISP.  It worked, but that wasn’t the right play, either.  Just because he hit a bunch of homers the first two weeks didn’t mean he was at that point in time the bigger threat...if anything, India was much more of a threat to score two with a double than Luplow two with a homer.