The TLR Manager Thread

[raBBit]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We are leading baseball in run differential and yet we are only 4th in overall winning percentage.  We are 2 games behind our pythagorean number.  We could have been putting away teams with this hot streak, yet we are only a half a game ahead of a team that has $100,000,000 less in payroll than us.  While you point to downside flukes, you didn't mention that guys like Yermin, Rodon, and Cease aren't likely to keep up their fluke seasons either.  These things will balance out.  If we have a manager giving away games with his ignorance of the game in 2021, the team needs to be all of the more better to make up those extra games.

 Look the whole idea behind Tony is that he would come in here and be a motivator, and he wouldn't make stupid mistakes.  Even if you don't believe Soxtalk on this topic, when you have NATIONAL writers mocking Tony's abilities AND reporting that the players themselves are wondering WTF their manager is doing, you SHOULD be able to open up your eyes and see that this team is winning in spite of their manager, and they could be doing even better with a capable MLB manager.

They will also balance out with Abreu hitting again, Giolito pitching like a TOR guy, Hendriks not giving up a HR every 3rd flyball, Foster having an ERA that is in the same universe of his peripheral performance and Heuer's BABIP not being one of the highest of any reliever in the league. They will also balance out when the Sox have one of the four outfielders they expected to break camp with healthy. 

[chitownsportsfan]

wow the great minds are returning!

[greg775]

1 hour ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

The Sox will win this year not because of TRL, but in spite of him.

You really think Tony is that bad? I just don't see it. His parade of relievers is kind of common when starters only can go five or so. The more relievers you use the more likely somebody will not have good stuff. Sometimes fans and posters want starters taken out way too early. Cmon, they should be able to go five or six ... taking a guy out in the fourth is dumb even by today's standards of not going deep into games.

The lineup? Doesn't modern analytics show the batting order doesn't really matter in terms of runs scored and production? I mean yeah Grandal probably should be hitting ninth but we also have sone other lousy hitters.

Playing Hamilton shouldn't ALL be on Tony. He's on the roster and Hahn has a say in that. I'm no Tony worshiper but I don't think he's a clown like Ricky could be. Does the evidence indicate Tony reeks? I don't think so.

Edited May 10, 2021 by greg775

[harkness99]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You really think Tony is that bad? I just don't see it. His parade of relievers is kind of common when starters only can go five or so. The more relievers you use the more likely somebody will not have good stuff. Sometimes fans and posters want starters taken out way too early. Cmon, they should be able to go five or six ... taking a guy out in the fourth is dumb even by today's standards of not going deep into games.

The lineup? Doesn't modern analytics show the batting order doesn't really matter in terms of runs scored and production? I mean yeah Grandal probably should be hitting ninth but we also have sone other lousy hitters.

Playing Hamilton shouldn't ALL be on Tony. He's on the roster and Hahn has a say in that. I'm no Tony worshiper but I don't think he's a clown like Ricky could be. Does the evidence indicate Tony reeks? I don't think so.

yes he is that bad.

[Tony]

14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You really think Tony is that bad? I just don't see it.

It's because you don't watch the games. 

Quote

The lineup? Doesn't modern analytics show the batting order doesn't really matter in terms of runs scored and production?

No. It's almost the exact opposite

Quote

I mean yeah Grandal probably should be hitting ninth but we also have sone other lousy hitters.

No, he should not be hitting ninth

[poppysox]

15 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Hey man, if you can’t see that the line between grown adults opining about baseball and little children whining, screaming, and worst of all, blaming, is beyond being crossed on here then I don’t know what to tell you.  

We have the most talent in the league.  What the fuck else do you whiners want from a front office?  They finally did it.  They made us the best and for a long time.  Let’s fucking celebrate!  Or at least be cool when something goes wrong. 

Touche!

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's because you don't watch the games. 

No. It's almost the exact opposite

No, he should not be hitting ninth

you got a sauce for that? At best it's usually considered a 10 run difference or so (so 1 win) over the course of the year between the worst possible lineup and the best is my understanding.

Edited May 10, 2021 by chitownsportsfan

["The Kids Can Play"]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You really think Tony is that bad? I just don't see it. His parade of relievers is kind of common when starters only can go five or so. The more relievers you use the more likely somebody will not have good stuff. Sometimes fans and posters want starters taken out way too early. Cmon, they should be able to go five or six ... taking a guy out in the fourth is dumb even by today's standards of not going deep into games.

The lineup? Doesn't modern analytics show the batting order doesn't really matter in terms of runs scored and production? I mean yeah Grandal probably should be hitting ninth but we also have sone other lousy hitters.

Playing Hamilton shouldn't ALL be on Tony. He's on the roster and Hahn has a say in that. I'm no Tony worshiper but I don't think he's a clown like Ricky could be. Does the evidence indicate Tony reeks? I don't think so.

Yes, he is that horrific! He has cost us at least 3 to 4 games. The season is still young, don't kid yourself and think he won't lose more games for us. He doesn't know how to put a lineup together, and clearly doesn't know our bullpen in terms of how and when to use them. He still makes bad game decisions. I seriously don't think he even listens to his coaches. 

As far as the starters go, he has often pulled them way too soon. Yes when they only go 5 or 6 innings you need to use the bullpen which is as you say, is kind of common. However good managers use their bullpen effectively and wisely and TLR does not.  

The only reason TLR is here is because Hawk Harrelson fired Tony 35 years ago and Jerry didn't have the backbone or common sense to stop it. How ironic today that the same owner didn't have the balls back then to override his GM then and STOP the firing, but now 35 later. he has the audacity to override Hahn and make him hire TLR. 

I seriously do not understand why there is still all this defending of Jerry. He did these same dumb decisions with the Bulls...letting Krause get rid of Jordan and Jackson and keeping Gar/Pax too long. Again "we will win this year not because of TLR, but in spite of him".

["The Kids Can Play"]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

We are leading baseball in run differential and yet we are only 4th in overall winning percentage.  We are 2 games behind our pythagorean number.  We could have been putting away teams with this hot streak, yet we are only a half a game ahead of a team that has $100,000,000 less in payroll than us.  While you point to downside flukes, you didn't mention that guys like Yermin, Rodon, and Cease aren't likely to keep up their fluke seasons either.  These things will balance out.  If we have a manager giving away games with his ignorance of the game in 2021, the team needs to be all of the more better to make up those extra games.

Look the whole idea behind Tony is that he would come in here and be a motivator, and he wouldn't make stupid mistakes.  Even if you don't believe Soxtalk on this topic, when you have NATIONAL writers mocking Tony's abilities AND reporting that the players themselves are wondering WTF their manager is doing, you SHOULD be able to open up your eyes and see that this team is winning in spite of their manager, and they could be doing even better with a capable MLB manager.

You're right he was suppose to be a motivator and bring his HOF credentials here to lead this awesome Sox team Hahn put together. However when TLR makes constant dumb moves during games and the players read and hear how their manager is being blasted by the fans and media, how in the hell can he be taken seriously and respected by the players. Btw, I've listen to many great motivators in my life and none of them spoke like this 2021 version of TLR does. He talks like a 76 year old who has lost much of his cognitive and physical skills. 

[Harry Chappas]

I give him credit for going with Vaughn and Mendick in the outfield.

Cutting Lucroy was an eye opener as well.

I hated the excessive usage of Williams, Lamb, Hamilton etc. but that seems to have now gone away.

We should have seen more from Yermin and Collins the last couple of years.  We can also look at Vaughn and Madrigal learning at the MLB level as a different approach.

There are good things and bad things happening.  We know the direct relation of bad moves that TLR admitted to but how much of the positive items are a result of him? 

Are they winning in spite of him, I am not certain. 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Harry Chappas

[chitownsportsfan]

16 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I give him credit for going with Vaughn and Mendick in the outfield.

Cutting Lucroy was an eye opener as well.

I hated the excessive usage of Williams, Lamb, Hamilton etc. but that seems to have now gone away.

We should have seen more from Yermin and Collins the last couple of years.  We can also look at Vaughn and Madrigal learning at the MLB level as a different approach.

There are good things and bad things happening.  We know the direct relation of bad moves that TLR admitted to but how much of the positive items area a result of him? 

Are they willing in spite of him, I am not certain. 

 

 

This nuanced take has no place on the Internet!

[Tony]

50 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you got a sauce for that? At best it's usually considered a 10 run difference or so (so 1 win) over the course of the year between the worst possible lineup and the best is my understanding.

Weird, you responded to this post, and not the one that was in direct response to you telling me to "Let it go"

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, Tony said:

Weird, you responded to this post, and not the one that was in direct response to you telling me to "Let it go"

I'm not in a spot to give it the reply it deserved so I gave you a sticker instead.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

They will also balance out with Abreu hitting again, Giolito pitching like a TOR guy, Hendriks not giving up a HR every 3rd flyball, Foster having an ERA that is in the same universe of his peripheral performance and Heuer's BABIP not being one of the highest of any reliever in the league. They will also balance out when the Sox have one of the four outfielders they expected to break camp with healthy. 

Two of those four OFs are out for months (a sizable majority of the season, maybe even all of it), again meaning our margin for Managerial Error is much smaller than usual.  The 3rd of those guys who is D2D is a guy who regularly suffers injuries.  The 4th is a completely unproven guy who should be providing defense and depth and not being a #1 OF.

There are plenty of other unsustainable starts from other players on the upside as well. 

Leaving games behind early only opens the door for teams like Cleveland and maybe even Minnesota if we can't bury them early.  It is harder to do so when your manager has no clue what is going on.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

You really think Tony is that bad? I just don't see it. His parade of relievers is kind of common when starters only can go five or so. The more relievers you use the more likely somebody will not have good stuff. Sometimes fans and posters want starters taken out way too early. Cmon, they should be able to go five or six ... taking a guy out in the fourth is dumb even by today's standards of not going deep into games.

The lineup? Doesn't modern analytics show the batting order doesn't really matter in terms of runs scored and production? I mean yeah Grandal probably should be hitting ninth but we also have sone other lousy hitters.

Playing Hamilton shouldn't ALL be on Tony. He's on the roster and Hahn has a say in that. I'm no Tony worshiper but I don't think he's a clown like Ricky could be. Does the evidence indicate Tony reeks? I don't think so.

Nothing about how he has conducted this season has shown he is operating on any level that is close to his Hall of Famer person reputation.  This team is still making many of the same dumb mistakes it has been making for years.  We have also yet to see any of those brilliant strategery moves that Tony is famous for.  I can excuse player performance's from the manager as it is hard to tag Tony for Grandal hitting .120, as much as it is hard to tag him for Rodon having a 0.50 era.  When I look at the line up preparation, the substitution patterns, bullpen usage, and in game strategy I am struggling to think of instances where I was blown away by how sharp something that is directly attributable to Tony really was.

[southsider2k5]

43 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I give him credit for going with Vaughn and Mendick in the outfield.

Cutting Lucroy was an eye opener as well.

I hated the excessive usage of Williams, Lamb, Hamilton etc. but that seems to have now gone away.

We should have seen more from Yermin and Collins the last couple of years.  We can also look at Vaughn and Madrigal learning at the MLB level as a different approach.

There are good things and bad things happening.  We know the direct relation of bad moves that TLR admitted to but how much of the positive items are a result of him? 

Are they winning in spite of him, I am not certain. 

 

 

I feel like I remember reading something about Chris Getz telling Danny Mendick if he wanted to maximize his chances at being on an MLB roster, he would learn to play the OF.  Obviously you can credit Tony for playing him there, but I want to say his being able to play the OF was due to one of the Sox developmental staff pushing him to learn it to give him more options to play at the MLB level.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

To all the LaRussa stans in this thread, these questions still have not been answered in the endless back and forth:

1. What has Tony LaRussa done well in his time as manager? Just please name one or two things.
2. What is man management? Renteria had his teams playing their ass off every single night. It's May 10th and there have been multiple reports of the players asking WTF is this guy doing here. Is that man management lol? When Ricky was here, the bullpen was lights out. I still argue Ricky should have been fired because in the playoffs it looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time they showed him and you gotta be calm in those spots as the manager.
3. Where does LaRussa improve the team - in what facet?

I see people in this thread giving LaRussa for playing Vaughn in LF - huh? He would sit his ass all the time for a guy that is not even in the big leagues anymore. He has let Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia consistently hit in HUGE situations late in the game. He said he was looking for a single with the tying run at the dish in the 8th inning and 1 out.

Would the Sox have won all those games? Obviously not. Could they have won one or two of them if their manager didn't insist on letting Billy Hamilton hit? Maybe.

So... what has LaRussa done well?

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I feel like I remember reading something about Chris Getz telling Danny Mendick if he wanted to maximize his chances at being on an MLB roster, he would learn to play the OF.  Obviously you can credit Tony for playing him there, but I want to say his being able to play the OF was due to one of the Sox developmental staff pushing him to learn it to give him more options to play at the MLB level.

Yeah I think that is correct. He has played OF in the minors as well (granted, 9 games).

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

To all the LaRussa stans in this thread, these questions still have not been answered in the endless back and forth:

1. What has Tony LaRussa done well in his time as manager? Just please name one or two things.
2. What is man management? Renteria had his teams playing their ass off every single night. It's May 10th and there have been multiple reports of the players asking WTF is this guy doing here. Is that man management lol? When Ricky was here, the bullpen was lights out. I still argue Ricky should have been fired because in the playoffs it looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time they showed him and you gotta be calm in those spots as the manager.
3. Where does LaRussa improve the team - in what facet?

I see people in this thread giving LaRussa for playing Vaughn in LF - huh? He would sit his ass all the time for a guy that is not even in the big leagues anymore. He has let Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia consistently hit in HUGE situations late in the game. He said he was looking for a single with the tying run at the dish in the 8th inning and 1 out.

Would the Sox have won all those games? Obviously not. Could they have won one or two of them if their manager didn't insist on letting Billy Hamilton hit? Maybe.

So... what has LaRussa done well?

THANK YOU!!!

Edited May 10, 2021 by manbearpuig

[Vulture]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you got a sauce for that? At best it's usually considered a 10 run difference or so (so 1 win) over the course of the year between the worst possible lineup and the best is my understanding.

Where’s your source? That just seems nonsensical when for example a 4-5 hitter is going to bat with 25-30% more runners on base than a 9-1 hitter, while a 1 hitter is going to get an extra PA over a nine hitter 90% of the time

[Tony]

Just now, Vulture said:

Where’s your source? That just seems nonsensical when for example a 4-5 hitter is going to bat with 25-30% more runners on base than a 9-1 hitter, while a 1 hitter is going to get an extra PA over a nine hitter 90% of the time

That's the thing. If you put Billy Hamilton in LF and Leury Garcia in CF right now (as is happening fairly often) and had them bat 1-2 every day.......there is no chance in hell that doesn't cost the Sox multiple wins over a season. 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Where’s your source? That just seems nonsensical when for example a 4-5 hitter is going to bat with 25-30% more runners on base than a 9-1 hitter, while a 1 hitter is going to get an extra PA over a nine hitter 90% of the time

Tango himself. And since he posted that over 15 years ago pretty much all the research that has followed.  At best you're talking 15 runs, as Tango himself said in that thread, "some people consider that a lot, others nothing".  It's about one win at best either way.  I'm in the "not a lot" category.  Get good players, it really doesn't matter how you line them up.

Edited May 10, 2021 by chitownsportsfan

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

To all the LaRussa stans in this thread, these questions still have not been answered in the endless back and forth:

1. What has Tony LaRussa done well in his time as manager? Just please name one or two things.
2. What is man management? Renteria had his teams playing their ass off every single night. It's May 10th and there have been multiple reports of the players asking WTF is this guy doing here. Is that man management lol? When Ricky was here, the bullpen was lights out. I still argue Ricky should have been fired because in the playoffs it looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time they showed him and you gotta be calm in those spots as the manager.
3. Where does LaRussa improve the team - in what facet?

I see people in this thread giving LaRussa for playing Vaughn in LF - huh? He would sit his ass all the time for a guy that is not even in the big leagues anymore. He has let Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia consistently hit in HUGE situations late in the game. He said he was looking for a single with the tying run at the dish in the 8th inning and 1 out.

Would the Sox have won all those games? Obviously not. Could they have won one or two of them if their manager didn't insist on letting Billy Hamilton hit? Maybe.

So... what has LaRussa done well?

He has three rings, brother. Ignore that the league has changed and every baseball thing he's done since 2011 has been laughably bad.

If La Russa wasn't named Tony La Russa, his performance would be hated by everyone so far.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

He has three rings, brother. Ignore that the league has changed and every baseball thing he's done since 2011 has been laughably bad.

If La Russa wasn't named Tony La Russa, his performance would be hated by everyone so far.

Too low energy!

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Tango himself. And since he posted that over 15 years ago pretty much all the research that has followed.  At best you're talking 15 runs, as Tango himself said in that thread, "some people consider that a lot, others nothing".  It's about one win at best either way.  I'm in the "not a lot" category.  Get good players, it really doesn't matter how you line them up.

Except Tony himself is batting inferior players in place of superior hitters, such as Billy Hamilton for Andrew Vaughn, so he really isn't even using "good players"