The TLR Manager Thread

[Tony]

53 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I really DGAF about "the most respected reporters in the game" have to say about TLR.  Because you know what?  Those guys don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to judging the mood in the Sox' clubhouse.  You know what I do see?  I see TA dancing and hitting over 300 and playing the best defense he's played in years, probably since the stretch in 2018.  I see Moncada smiling, having fun, fucking with TA and rubbing Madrigal's little head and jumping into his pitcher's arms that just threw a no hitter.  I see Andrew Vaughn taking his walks, making diving plays in LF and saying himself that it's nice not having to worry about playing every day and having a chance to just watch the vets. I see a journeyman AAAA player that showed up late being handled about as well as he possibly can by his manager (who called him out in the media in a subtle, nuanced way I'd add) and who is the story of baseball so far.

 I see a team that is near 1st in every meaningful statistical category: pitching, defense, offense.  Surely the manager gets some credit for that.

 Sometimes the particle is both in and out of the box and it's a measurement problem us mere mortals haven't figured out yet.  TLR has been bad tactically and some of the credit for how great the Sox are playing goes to him.  There's the response you seemed to demand of me.

Yikes? This was the best you could do? Jeff Passan and Ken Rosenthal are wrong because Moncada rubs Madrigals head.

Got it. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Except from all indications he's setting Vaughn up for success and letting the rookie, who has never played above high A, get plenty of rest and film work in between ABs.  Look, I'm not gonna sit here and say that TLR is some tactical genius, in fact he's a moron tactically, but he was brought in here to win and so far he's winning.  For all the whining about how TA would hate him, Jose would hate him, so far those guys seem to enjoy playing for him.  It's a pass fail grade for Tony.  His grade will be completed in the Fall.

This was my take about Vaughn . He started slow so TLR let him sit a few games. I know everyone wanted to see him playing every day from the get go but he did what most managers would do when you insert a rookie with no upper level minors experience and no LF experience . You sit him down and let him , study, you talk to him about how pitchers going to be approaching him , slow things down, study film of his AB's. It sucks that because of injuries that the only guys around to replace him sucked but it all came out in the wash that TLR was an idiot.

I think he was handled the right way. And now it has absolutely paid off and he's out there every day, in a short period of time . But how he is doing now only adds fuel to the fire that he should've been out there every day from the beginning ,whereas like you suggested and I suggested long ago that it was no great mismanagement nor injustice to Vaughn to slow things down for him.

[Tony]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Ricky made the playoffs with 2 starters. You rip managers and players all of the time. You're posts contradict each other all of the time, and you say others have no idea what they are talking about. It's really funny.

Man, @chitownsportsfan....

[Kyyle23]

21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And LaRussa is one of the worst managers in baseball, if not the worst. Me and Tony got something in common after all!

I don't mention posters either, I respond to posts... weird. I also don't let posters on the internet get me so angry that I have to rage at them and block them. I stick to the topic that is being discussed and disagree/agree when I see fit. Aggro is telling posters to STFU and not talk to you, not responding to a posts content. Hope that helps!

You don't mention posters but you keep "subtweeting" me about saying STFU lmao.

I regularly interact with you and for the most part we don't argue, no?  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

26 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You don't mention posters but you keep "subtweeting" me about saying STFU lmao.

I regularly interact with you and for the most part we don't argue, no?  

Correct. Disagreements only become "arguments" when people get upset. At least that's what I have discovered.

As for your first point, I'm not sure what that means lmao. Either I am getting too old or I'm just an idiot. Both aren't good! I'm not sure what subtweeting here is and we both know I never complain to moderators about things people on the internet say to me lol.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ron883]

16 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You don't mention posters but you keep "subtweeting" me about saying STFU lmao.

I regularly interact with you and for the most part we don't argue, no?  

Maybe you and Tony shouldn't have deleted his NBA thread. What goes around comes around. 

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Maybe you and Tony shouldn't have deleted his NBA thread. What goes around comes around. 

I know a thread was deleted but I have no idea what the specifics of this one was, Wasn't involved with that

[ChiSox59]

So much drama on here some days.  

[Tony]

10 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Maybe you and Tony shouldn't have deleted his NBA thread. What goes around comes around. 

lol, I don't know if I've ever deleted someone's thread, but no one can stir the pot like you, ron. I do give you credit for that lol. 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

To all the LaRussa stans in this thread, these questions still have not been answered in the endless back and forth:

1. What has Tony LaRussa done well in his time as manager? Just please name one or two things.
2. What is man management? Renteria had his teams playing their ass off every single night. It's May 10th and there have been multiple reports of the players asking WTF is this guy doing here. Is that man management lol? When Ricky was here, the bullpen was lights out. I still argue Ricky should have been fired because in the playoffs it looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time they showed him and you gotta be calm in those spots as the manager.
3. Where does LaRussa improve the team - in what facet?

I see people in this thread giving LaRussa for playing Vaughn in LF - huh? He would sit his ass all the time for a guy that is not even in the big leagues anymore. He has let Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia consistently hit in HUGE situations late in the game. He said he was looking for a single with the tying run at the dish in the 8th inning and 1 out.

Would the Sox have won all those games? Obviously not. Could they have won one or two of them if their manager didn't insist on letting Billy Hamilton hit? Maybe.

So... what has LaRussa done well?

You deserve an answer because of your intensity. All I can say as a LaRussa supporter is, "I don't know (what he has done well)." I just think it's very early in the season and despite mega injuries the Sox have a good/pretty excellent record. It's a cop out to just look at the record, but it's also not a cop out as a Sox fan to say I don't dislike the job LaRussa has done so far. I know as somebody with concerns this answer probably would frustrate you. As a fan I go by the eye test a lot and I see a banged-up team doing just fine. He's the manager of this banged-up team with a not so bad record, so I don't despise his work. 

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You deserve an answer because of your intensity. All I can say as a LaRussa supporter is, "I don't know (what he has done well)." I just think it's very early in the season and despite mega injuries the Sox have a good/pretty excellent record. It's a cop out to just look at the record, but it's also not a cop out as a Sox fan to say I don't dislike the job LaRussa has done so far. I know as somebody with concerns this answer probably would frustrate you. As a fan I go by the eye test a lot and I see a banged-up team doing just fine. He's the manager of this banged-up team with a not so bad record, so I don't despise his work. 

This comment is not pointed at you, but Ricky Renteria had a better record (20-12 after 32 games) with less talent at his disposal, and most here didn’t have the same standards and or provide the grace allotted to La Russa.

[Harry Chappas]

59 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

But he hasn't, which is the point.  He has shown capable of what he has been asked to do, so there shouldn't be a problem with asking him to hit in a leverage situation in late innings.  Hell they are asking WAY more of him to be defending in LF, which he had never done before this year, than to be a hitter, which he has done everywhere he has ever been.

Vaughn hadn't hit above A ball and he seems to be gradually getting better.  His defense has not been an issue.  How is it that Vaughn supposedly worked in the outfield last summer but never did it in the spring until it became an emergency.  Vaughn is the LF until further notice.  He may not be athletic as Eloy but he doesn't make a fool of himself.  

Now Mendick is now a RF.  This is nice switch of things and hopefully it will work as I think Mendick brings some tools this team needs.

The brand of baseball we are now seeing and handling of players seems to be improving.  Maybe the staff was just looking to make certain of these things but what I am seeing from the White Sox, I have not seen in a long time.  I go back to Collins in Yermin not having a role when the team was going nowhere but yet with a new manager they are now being relied upon.  The White Sox lost two focal point hitters and they are fine.  I recall the corspeball days where Mike Minor would throw a three hitter.   

Are these changes a new organizational philosophy or did LaRussa and his staff push for it?  I don't know but over the last few weeks this team is very watchable and I am ok with that.  DID these changes happen because COVID lowered the budget forcing Yermin and Vaughn onto the team...who knows.

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This comment is not pointed at you, but Ricky Renteria had a better record (20-12 after 32 games) with less talent at his disposal, and most here didn’t have the same standards and or provide the grace allotted to La Russa.

Great point. I may be a pollyanna regarding this issue, but I actually would have been OK keeping Ricky.

I just didn't like what he did pulling Dunning so soon in the high-leverage game. I was so mad I didn't mind him getting canned. Also fans here convinced me he was not all that. As far as RR, I always thought it 'kind of' unfair he got axed without being allowed to see the rebuild through. I think he probably did not deserve to get the boot except for the Dunning disaster. I think it's too early to be enraged about LaRussa but that's just me.

I probably should shut up now as I don't have a lot of evidence to back my opinions on the managerial issue. I just know at this juncture I'm OK with LaRussa. Ultimately I could be wrong and if he is a horrible postseason manager I will look dumb in my support.

["The Kids Can Play"]

5 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

To all the LaRussa stans in this thread, these questions still have not been answered in the endless back and forth:

1. What has Tony LaRussa done well in his time as manager? Just please name one or two things.
2. What is man management? Renteria had his teams playing their ass off every single night. It's May 10th and there have been multiple reports of the players asking WTF is this guy doing here. Is that man management lol? When Ricky was here, the bullpen was lights out. I still argue Ricky should have been fired because in the playoffs it looked like he was going to have a heart attack every time they showed him and you gotta be calm in those spots as the manager.
3. Where does LaRussa improve the team - in what facet?

I see people in this thread giving LaRussa for playing Vaughn in LF - huh? He would sit his ass all the time for a guy that is not even in the big leagues anymore. He has let Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia consistently hit in HUGE situations late in the game. He said he was looking for a single with the tying run at the dish in the 8th inning and 1 out.

Would the Sox have won all those games? Obviously not. Could they have won one or two of them if their manager didn't insist on letting Billy Hamilton hit? Maybe.

So... what has LaRussa done well?

 

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Too low energy!

If he managed like this in Oakland and St Louis he never would have won jack crap or a single ring or be in the HOA!

["The Kids Can Play"]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This comment is not pointed at you, but Ricky Renteria had a better record (20-12 after 32 games) with less talent at his disposal, and most here didn’t have the same standards and or provide the grace allotted to La Russa.

Not even close to the same. Renteria was blessed with a hot rookie Robert who was early on tearing it up before pitchers figured him out. Eloy was having a monster year and now out. Eloy and Robert batting after Abreu also protected Jose so he saw more good pitches. Now they never throw a pitch to Jose in the zone. Hence why Abreu won an MVP year. Between Grandal and McCaan we actually got some production from the catcher's spot. Tim Anderson was leading the league in batting. 

Renteria totally screwed up the playoffs and deserved to be fired. However the Sox players and fans didn't deserve LaRussa as the replacement. LaRussa deserve all the blasting and criticism he is getting. I just wish Jerry would also feel the national scrutiny and embarrassment more. We haven't provided any respect or grace to LaRussa because he hasn't earned it!

The Sox will win this year not because of Jerry or Tony, but in spite of both of them! They will win because they are a great talented bunch of young ballplayers who Hahn put together. If we can avoid any further injuries and hopefully get Eloy and Robert back for the playoffs, we will be one dangerous team to face. 

Let's kick ass this week vs the Twins and Royals and leave them so far behind.

[South Side Hit Men]

39 minutes ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

Not even close to the same. Renteria was blessed with a hot rookie Robert who was early on tearing it up before pitchers figured him out. Eloy was having a monster year and now out. Eloy and Robert batting after Abreu also protected Jose so he saw more good pitches. Now they never throw a pitch to Jose in the zone. Hence why Abreu won an MVP year. Between Grandal and McCaan we actually got some production from the catcher's spot. Tim Anderson was leading the league in batting. 

Renteria had two starters, one worth a damn in the playoffs. No Kopech, Cease and Rodon were not solid, no Lynn. Eloy was on the DL twice and unavailable for the playoffs. Robert and Tim also missed time. Parrot and Mazara were completely worthless. Yoan was recovering from COVID and limited. No .380 hitting Yermin, no Vaughn.

Anyone denying the significant talent upgrade between 2020 and 2021 is not paying attention. 

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Great point. I may be a pollyanna regarding this issue, but I actually would have been OK keeping Ricky.

I just didn't like what he did pulling Dunning so soon in the high-leverage game. I was so mad I didn't mind him getting canned. Also fans here convinced me he was not all that. As far as RR, I always thought it 'kind of' unfair he got axed without being allowed to see the rebuild through. I think he probably did not deserve to get the boot except for the Dunning disaster. I think it's too early to be enraged about LaRussa but that's just me.

I probably should shut up now as I don't have a lot of evidence to back my opinions on the managerial issue. I just know at this juncture I'm OK with LaRussa. Ultimately I could be wrong and if he is a horrible postseason manager I will look dumb in my support.

If Crochet pitches 2-3 innings with the amazing stuff he had that day, then there's likely a completely different result.

We'll never know.

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Renteria had two starters, one worth a damn in the playoffs. No Kopech, Cease and Rodon were not solid, no Lynn. Eloy was on the DL twice and unavailable for the playoffs. Robert and Tim also missed time. Parrot and Mazara were completely worthless. Yoan was recovering from COVID and limited. No .380 hitting Yermin, no Vaughn.

Anyone denying the significant talent upgrade between 2020 and 2021 is not paying attention. 

Of course, the other massive difference is Abreu was the AL MVP...as opposed to a below-average MLB first baseman in all aspects except RBI production this year.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

Maybe you and Tony shouldn't have deleted his NBA thread. What goes around comes around. 

This should easily win post of the year, although to appreciate it means you spend far too much time on Soxtalk...lol

[VAfan]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:26 PM, Tony said:

Because in this case, it’s absolute bullshit. @VAfan, seemingly trying to school all of us, posted this..

Managers make decisions for reasons they feel like make sense at the time. They don't always work out. To say another strategy would have been better doesn't mean the other strategy would have worked, and therefore, it may not have been better. 

That’s a bunch of words that mean absolutely nothing to the specific debate at hand. As we have discussed ad nauseam, LaRussa admitted he didn’t know a rule, and wouldn’t have made the same call if he was aware of the rule. This isn’t second guessing bullpen decision or lineup placement. These are errors that should not be happening, and have happened multiple times. But someone like Vafan won’t get specific about that, because it destroys his entire “position.” Instead he’ll just use cliches and general ideas that aren’t speaking to actual issues at hand. 
 

Positivity is a good thing. And as many know, I get after the negative posters more than most here. But positive or negative, come at an argument with actual substance. That had none of it. 

Yes, TLR made a mistake, and he admitted it. It's not the only one he's admitted. That doesn't warrant even 1% of the ridicule he receives from fans.

I think it's fair to criticize moves that TLR makes. What I find rather offensive is the way posters on here think they are smarter about baseball than Tony LaRussa. That's total BS. That's why I wrote that NONE OF YOU COULD MANAGE A MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM.  

So, if you want to question Tony, fine. I don't have a problem.

If you want to try to come off like you are a genius and TLR is an idiot, I think you demean yourself, because that's total BS. 

TLR has made some mistakes. But he's also done some very good things, and he has the team in first place despite missing two of his most important hitters, a subpar start from Jose Abreu, his starting catcher hitting .113, every bullpen pitcher blowing something (other than Kopech), a very slow start from Yoan Moncada, etc. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by VAfan

[ron883]

20 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Yes, TLR made a mistake, and he admitted it. It's not the only one he's admitted. That doesn't warrant even 1% of the ridicule he receives from fans.

I think it's fair to criticize moves that TLR makes. What I find rather offensive is the way posters on here think they are smarter about baseball than Tony LaRussa. That's total BS. That's why I wrote that NONE OF YOU COULD MANAGE A MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM.  

So, if you want to question Tony, fine. I don't have a problem.

If you want to try to come off like you are a genius and TLR is an idiot, I think you demean yourself, because that's total BS. 

TLR has made some mistakes. But he's also done some very good things, and he has the team in first place despite missing two of his most important hitters, a subpar start from Jose Abreu, his starting catcher hitting .113, every bullpen pitcher blowing something (other than Kopech), a very slow start from Yoan Moncada, etc. 

Tony's got it so hard. He's leading the team with the best run differential to 1st place. The White Sox have a +53 run differential. Next best in the ENTIRE league is Houston/Boston with +33. 

The next best run differential in the division is Cleveland with a +15. The Sox are only 1 game ahead of Cleveland, despite the huge discrepancy in run differential. 

To do what he has done with his team playing so poorly is simply masterful.

Edited May 11, 2021 by ron883

[Tony]

20 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Yes, TLR made a mistake, and he admitted it. It's not the only one he's admitted. That doesn't warrant even 1% of the ridicule he receives from fans.

I think it's fair to criticize moves that TLR makes. What I find rather offensive is the way posters on here think they are smarter about baseball than Tony LaRussa. That's total BS. That's why I wrote that NONE OF YOU COULD MANAGE A MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM.  

So, if you want to question Tony, fine. I don't have a problem.

If you want to try to come off like you are a genius and TLR is an idiot, I think you demean yourself, because that's total BS. 

TLR has made some mistakes. But he's also done some very good things, and he has the team in first place despite missing two of his most important hitters, a subpar start from Jose Abreu, his starting catcher hitting .113, every bullpen pitcher blowing something (other than Kopech), a very slow start from Yoan Moncada, etc. 

Here is what you can’t seem to understand. I’ll try and make it simple for you. 

Me being critical of Tony LaRussa doesn’t mean I think I could be a better baseball manager. Have you ever criticized a baseball player for his performance? If so...does that mean you think you can play better than him?

There are 30 MLB Manager jobs. They aren’t easy to come by. Because they are so limited, I think it’s fair to have high expectations for the performance in said position. When someone in that position is continually making mistakes that an amateur can notice while they are happening..that deserves ridicule. Two things can be true at once. Tony LaRussa has won a lot of baseball games as a manager. He’s also making a lot of bad decisions for the White Sox at 76 years old. 
 

If you can’t deal with that, I can’t help you. 

[tray]

24 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Yes, TLR made a mistake, and he admitted it. It's not the only one he's admitted. That doesn't warrant even 1% of the ridicule he receives from fans.

I think it's fair to criticize moves that TLR makes. What I find rather offensive is the way posters on here think they are smarter about baseball than Tony LaRussa. That's total BS. That's why I wrote that NONE OF YOU COULD MANAGE A MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM.  

So, if you want to question Tony, fine. I don't have a problem.

If you want to try to come off like you are a genius and TLR is an idiot, I think you demean yourself, because that's total BS. 

TLR has made some mistakes. But he's also done some very good things, and he has the team in first place despite missing two of his most important hitters, a subpar start from Jose Abreu, his starting catcher hitting .113, every bullpen pitcher blowing something (other than Kopech), a very slow start from Yoan Moncada, etc. 

Well stated.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

19 minutes ago, tray said:

Well stated.

Absolutely, and the part VAFan wrote about TLR admitting his mistakes resonates with me. It shows his relatability and humility, his willingness to adjust in a game of adjustments, and his players will appreciate him making himself a billboard target for fans/media to shield everyone else. He knows how to manage a clubhouse.

That’s partly why Tony LaRussa is one of my role models. 

[tray]

Some posters  have mentioned Tony's age on numerous occasions implying that his mental capacity is compromised.  I guess some people here may not know much about Alzheimer's disease, have not had a loved one who suffered and/or died from it.  Those of you who have know that  is nothing to take lightly.    Even short of that, there is no reason to throw someone's age around like it is a pejorative. We have had Justices sitting on the Supreme Court who have served into their 80's and three current Justices are over 70. These were and are people that had to grasp  concepts that were far more complex than who's on Second.

I want to believe that even the most aggressive criticisms directed toward Tony simply lack perspective, however, some of the repeated attacks begin to look like they are motivated by things like anger, arrogance and disrespect, and no one wants to be viewed that way.  Ironically, Tony has the respect of his players and all of them appear to be following his leadership.

I am not beyond criticizing a Sox Manager (or GM) and did so with Robin Ventura and Rick Hahn who sat back as the practice field and the Sox clubhouse spiraled out of control. I don't think anything like that is going to go down with LaRussa managing this team. The current Sox players respect him, believe in his abilities, and are playing  well for him.