The TLR Manager Thread

[35thstreetswarm]

16 hours ago, VAfan said:

I wonder if all you TLR bashers are unhappy that the Sox are in first place, with the best record in baseball, have won 6 in a row, sweeping two division rivals in the process, while TLR has made some very astute moves??

I mean, does White Sox success, with TLR firmly at the helm, cause you consternation?? 

Or do you still nitpick, think the Sox are succeeding in spite of him, just so you can hold onto your prejudices? 

If I were you I would aim this sentiment at the contingent of posters who are indiscriminately negative about *everything* (and there are plenty—remember, wins don’t count if we just won them, and losses are the only games on which we can draw conclusions), rather than critics of TLR.  The latter is a much more focused and reasonable group.  There’s really nothing inconsistent or unreasonable about believing a team is winning despite their manager rather than because of him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

It’s hilarious when people complain about tlr costing games. Then say with a straight face that managers don’t really effect the outcome of games. Yet he doesn’t get credit for the best record in baseball

Tony throwing a heck of a breaking ball these days!

How about them clutch hits Tony!

I bet, if Tony didn't bench Yermin Mercedes for being late, he would be so late everyday he'd just miss the games all together by now.

Thank god for Tony LaRussa. The pep in his step is so lively Tim Anderson and Yoan Moncada think baseball is fun now... and Andrew Vaughn was able to take studious notes on breaking ball spins rates from his observational post in the dugout early season, so all-star Nick Williams could play, so now... man, he's analyzing that spin with his notebook in his back pocket at the dish. He said the other day, "without learning from Nick Williams by watching him teach me how to maintain a long MLB career, I may not be playing right now."

I wonder if Vaughn would even be playing if Engel had no set-backs; if he wouldn't be, we all know he'd be the benches Einstein, learning and evolving his swing without even playing. A truly magical experience! All because of TLR. And Tony let Leury Garcia and Hamilton hit in countless big plate appearances early in the season just to teach his guys they have to score MORE runs EARLY in the game, otherwise he'll take their chances away late in the game to teach them a lesson. A true 4d chess master.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Greydawgfan1]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Tony throwing a heck of a breaking ball these days!

How about them clutch hits Tony!

I bet, if Tony didn't bench Yermin Mercedes for being late, he would be so late everyday he'd just miss the games all together by now.

Thank god for Tony LaRussa. The pep in his step is so lively Tim Anderson and Yoan Moncada think baseball is fun now... and Andrew Vaughn was able to take studious notes on breaking ball spins rates from his observational post in the dugout early season, so all-star Nick Williams could play, so now... man, he's analyzing that spin with his notebook in his back pocket at the dish. He said the other day, "without learning from Nick Williams by watching him teach me how to maintain a long MLB career, I may not be playing right now."

I wonder if Vaughn would even be playing if Engel had no set-backs; if he wouldn't be, we all know he'd be the benches Einstein, learning and evolving his swing without even playing. A truly magical experience! All because of TLR.

So you’re just spewing trash? You can’t say managers don’t effect games but blame him for losses and not for wins. Is that a hard concept . He either changes the outcomes of games or he doesn’t 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

So you’re just spewing trash? You can’t say managers don’t effect games but blame him for losses and not for wins. Is that a hard concept . He either changes the outcomes of games or he doesn’t 

I've been about as transparent as possible on this in my tenure at Soxtalk.

A managers impact on a game is minuscule and only becomes slightly meaningful when he deliberately makes moves that cause the team themselves to doubt his actions (which has obviously happened even though the TLR stans pretend the reports are all fake for some reason), and consistently makes decision that decrease the run expectancy of the team (starting worse players consistently, and leaving terrible players in to hit in big spots). LaRussa has had 5ish games where he has made decisions late in games or lineup wise so egregious that it legitimately lowered their expected runs scored. Does that mean they would have won those games? No, but it does mean he gave them a lesser chance to win them.

Any manager can be expected to put their better players in the game to start, and use their better relievers late in a game; that's really easy stuff that you could do. Managers shouldn't be expected to do the exact opposite of that, which LaRussa has done multiple times. Very rarely will I ever blame a manager for a reliever blowing a game or etc. I thought him leaving Giolito in the game was egregious and the Foster thing was just flat out strange but besides that, bullpen management is pretty luck-of-the-draw driven. I thought the Ruiz idea wasn't a bad one, for example, yesterday. See what he has in a high leverage spot without letting him blow the game.

I'll say it for the last time. If you are going to use Billy Hamilton as a defensive replacement to preserve leads, then you should have an offensive replacement for him when trailing. This isn't complicated stuff. Garcia and Hamilton should not take another big at bat late in a game with guys on the bench available.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Greydawgfan1]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I've been about as transparent as possible on this in my tenure at Soxtalk.

A managers impact on a game is minuscule and only becomes slightly meaningful when he deliberately makes moves that cause the team themselves to doubt his actions, and consistently makes decision that decrease the run expectancy of the team (starting worse players consistently, and leaving terrible players in to hit in big spots). LaRussa has had 5ish games where he has made decisions late in games or lineup wise so egregious that it legitimately lowered their expected runs scored. Does that mean they would have won those games? No, but it does mean he gave them a lesser chance to win them.

Any manager can be expected to put their better players in the game to start, and use their better relievers late in a game; that's really easy stuff that you could do. Managers shouldn't be expected to do the exact opposite of that, which LaRussa has done multiple times. Very rarely will I ever blame a manager for a reliever blowing a game or etc. I thought him leaving Giolito in the game was egregious and the Foster thing was just flat out strange but besides that, bullpen management is pretty luck-of-the-draw driven. I thought the Ruiz idea wasn't a bad one, for example, yesterday. See what he has in a high leverage spot without letting him blow the game.

I'll say it for the last time. If you are going to use Billy Hamilton as a defensive replacement to preserve leads, then you should have an offensive replacement for him when trailing. This isn't complicated stuff. Garcia and Hamilton should not take another big at bat late in a game with guys on the bench available.

I’ll say it again. I’ve been pretty transparent. If you’re r mad at larussa when we have the best record in baseball and are cruising , there is literally no helping you. Real Sox fans are happy right now. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Greydawgfan1 said:

I’ll say it again. I’ve been pretty transparent. If you’re r mad at larussa when we have the best record in baseball and are cruising , there is literally no helping you. Real Sox fans are happy right now. 

I'm happy; real people can be upset with a manager while enjoying the game and the team. I don't know about you, but I watch baseball for the players and they provide me with enjoyment. If you find yourself applauding the stumbling fumbling Tony LaRussa as he walks out of the dugout, by all means go all out. I'm sorry that you appear to be an all or nothing person; I hope you get those issues resolved and can be honest with a singular evaluation without it effecting your overall happiness with something. Good luck to you!

[Greydawgfan1]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm happy; real people can be upset with a manager while enjoying the game and the team. I don't know about you, but I watch baseball for the players and they provide me with enjoyment. If you find yourself applauding the stumbling fumbling Tony LaRussa as he walks out of the dugout, by all means go all out. I'm sorry that you appear to be an all or nothing person; I hope you get those issues resolved and can be honest with a singular evaluation without it effecting your overall happiness with something. Good luck to you!

Nah I’m just happy all around. Happy for the team, players and manager. All seem to be doing well right now. I’m not letting childish feelings get in the way of reality.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

Nah I’m just happy all around. Happy for the team, players and manager. All seem to be doing well right now. I’m not letting childish feelings get in the way of reality.

And I'm happy for your Happiness! Yay! Objectiveness = Childish. Got it!

Edited May 14, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Greydawgfan1]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And I'm happy for your Happiness! Yay! Objectiveness = Childish. Got it!

Objective? Okay Bernstein 

[35thstreetswarm]

20 minutes ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

I’ll say it again. I’ve been pretty transparent. If you’re r mad at larussa when we have the best record in baseball and are cruising , there is literally no helping you. Real Sox fans are happy right now. 

Sorry, but this is just nonsensical.  I'm overjoyed about the Sox, I predicted that they'd be good and they are, and I roll my eyes at most of the reflexive negativity on this board. But to suggest that you can't criticize a *single* aspect of the team just because they're winning is crazy. I was overjoyed when the Sox were cruising after smoking Minny at the end of last season, but I had no illusions that Ricky was a great manager and remained worried that his in-game strategy would cost us games. I was right. I have the same worries about TLR even while my overall positivity rating is sky-high.

Edited May 14, 2021 by 35thstreetswarm

[Bob Sacamano]

I've been saying they'd win no matter who was manager (roster is too good not to) since the day they hired him. Doesn't mean I think LaRussa is good.

Also: I love that you can ignore users but it sucks that you can still see when other users respond to those who you have ignored.

Edited May 14, 2021 by manbearpuig

[southsider2k5]

39 minutes ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

So you’re just spewing trash? You can’t say managers don’t effect games but blame him for losses and not for wins. Is that a hard concept . He either changes the outcomes of games or he doesn’t 

For my two cents when someone states that a manager has a minimal effect on a game, I think there is an underlying assumption built into that statement that the manager is of a level of competence that they aren't doing ridiculous and unexpected things such as not knowing the rules of the game, and instead of turning a quick statement into a long statement full of needless qualifiers, they make a quick and simplified statement, which is well understood in its context.

I mean when I say managers have a  minimal effect, do I need to say mention that as long as they play all nine defenders that they have a minimal effect, or can that be assumed?  Do I need to mention that I am not including managers who would move their starting pitcher to CF for every other batter as it wouldn't be a good idea?  Again, that can be assumed.  So when people make that statement, I can accept that an acceptable assumption would be a manager who understood the rules of the game, and other basic things we assume of managers in 2021. 

I mean if you can't read between the lines to understand a statement like this for what it is, that is fine.  I personally think too many take it as just an opportunity to argue something that was never said, and reframe the argument to something it never was instead have having a healthy respect for the baseball IQ of the person posting the comment.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

not as laughable as your reasoning

What’s my reasoning?  I provided zero context about why I feel the way I do about Tony...?

[chitownsportsfan]

Tony screwed up not knowing the rule.  It was a bad mistake and probably cost the Sox the game.  That said, just as important, because EVERYBODY makes mistakes, players, coaches, GMs, managers, Sox talks posters: is that he owned it and moved on and the Sox have been on a roll ever since.  People respond to that leadership.  He didn't pass the buck and say "oh I delegate that stuff to my guys and nobody told me".  He didn't say something like "well if we had executed it wouldn't have mattered".  He said he fucked up and he signaled to his men that the important thing is to own it and move on and try and do better next time.

So pretty much the opposite of how he handled his DUI, but hey, baby steps.

[Greg Hibbard]

TLR really doesn’t have an impact on the situation when everyday players do what they’re paid to do and the White Sox win. 

When Rodon throws a no hitter, that had nothing to do with TLR being good or bad. Similarly, when the everyday lineup rakes and scores a million runs and your starter throws a quality start, that has nothing to do with TLR being good or bad. 

What we need to discuss are all the situations TLR makes autonomous decisions that will not be good long term plays, regardless of whether they work or not. The manager really only has an impact on the game when he makes pitching change, substitution, and lineup construction decisions.

Saying yesterday’s game was some sort of 4D chess by TLR because we ended up winning a game that really shouldn’t have been close is mind-boggling. It’s results oriented, in the same way that playing a bad poker hand because “you had a feeling” and winning despite the odds is not good play. 

We won despite Lamb playing awful defense a first, a TLR only decision. Lamb did his very best to hurt us more than he helped us with that home run. We won despite a number of obstacles like that. Good for us. I wonder what would have happened if we had just played Abreu at first and DH’d Mercedes. I wonder if we would have won 9-2 again. 

What is with this notion that we have to only play stud starters 130 games a year now? These are top tier athletes at the highest level. Abreu played every damned game last year. Play the regulars.

TLR has cost us actual games - like leaving in Giolito too long or not understanding the Reds extra inning situation - by himself. If you’re happy being 22-13, that’s great. With another manager we might be 18-19 and with a third manager we might be 26-9. 

here’s the point - a high leverage situation in the playoffs is a once or done deal. You don’t get a second chance. So a gaffe like that in the postseason destroys potentially 10 years of work- the tear down we did, the rebuilding we went through, the shakeups and the losses. You either make the right call or you don’t. This guy has shown me so far that he is really iffy in that department. Whether it’s age or not being familiar with the game, he’s not altogether on top of it. 

I truly hope that this is just TLR shaking off the rust, and that he will learn things as we progress. I want the best for the White Sox. Ozzie was not a great manager in a lot of respects but there was never a doubt in my mind about him making gut calls in the 2005 playoffs after the Boston series. 
 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Greg Hibbard

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Sorry, but this is just nonsensical.  I'm overjoyed about the Sox, I predicted that they'd be good and they are, and I roll my eyes at most of the reflexive negativity on this board. But to suggest that you can't criticize a *single* aspect of the team just because they're winning is crazy. I was overjoyed when the Sox were cruising after smoking Minny at the end of last season, but I had no illusions that Ricky was a great manager and remained worried that his in-game strategy would cost us games. I was right. I have the same worries about TLR even while my overall positivity rating is sky-high.

Not allowed!  Just win, baby!  Winning invalidates all criticisms, legit and otherwise.  It is a bit strange how quickly TLR has become “our guy” again when the team is suddenly firing on all cylinders.

[chitownsportsfan]

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2017/10/18/16495186/managers-mistakes-joe-girardi-joe-maddon-aj-hinch-terry-francona

[caulfield12]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2017/10/18/16495186/managers-mistakes-joe-girardi-joe-maddon-aj-hinch-terry-francona

Can’t imagine that Francona and Kapler aren’t the two early favorites for Manager of the Year.

Tito pulled his closer after three walks and two outs and clinging to a two-run lead in the bottom of the ninth yesterday...worked out just fine.  75-80% of guys leave their designated closer in, regardless.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Can’t imagine that Francona and Kapler aren’t the two early favorites for Manager of the Year.

Tito pulled his closer after three walks and two outs and clinging to a two-run lead in the bottom of the ninth yesterday...worked out just fine.  75-80% of guys leave their designated closer in, regardless.

No manager is perfect and great managers have made worse mistakes in bigger moments than La Russa.  If it was easy, everybody would do it.

["The Kids Can Play"]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Moot

 

My bad, I should have checked my words better before sending, which I normally do. Thanks for being the designated English teacher here on the forum. We greatly appreciate your support to the community. I sure hope you never post something where you make an accidental grammar or spelling mistake. I'm sure that has never happened to you! I'm curious though, do you reply to all the posts here with grammar and spelling mistakes? I have seen a ton of them on here and not sure if you replied to every single one of them. LOL. Like most here, I thought we were to reply to the content of the post.?

Edited May 14, 2021 by "The Kids Can Play"

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No manager is perfect and great managers have made worse mistakes in bigger moments than La Russa.  If it was easy, everybody would do it.

One of those many White Sox what ifs.  If Francona was promoted to Sox manager back in the 90’s...around the time of Bevington, how our trajectory as a franchise might have changed.  He certainly was the perfect fit for most of his tenure in Boston, as well as with the underdog, under resourced Indians.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

 

My bad, I should have checked my words better before sending, which I normally do. Thanks for being the designated English teacher here on the forum. We greatly appreciate your support to the community. I sure hope you never post something where you make an accidental grammar or spelling mistake. I'm sure that has never happened to you! LOL.

The grammar police are never properly appreciated for their understated role in society, and message boards in general.

KyLlE must have been in Model United Nations or done a legal internship back in the day.

[Kyyle23]

8 minutes ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

 

My bad, I should have checked my words better before sending, which I normally do. Thanks for being the designated English teacher here on the forum. We greatly appreciate your support to the community. I sure hope you never post something where you make an accidental grammar or spelling mistake. I'm sure that has never happened to you! I'm curious though, do you reply to all the posts here with grammar and spelling mistakes? I have seen a ton of them on here and not sure if you replied to every single one of them. LOL. Like most here, I thought we were to reply to the content of the post.?

It's fine you can go back to being mute

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The grammar police are never properly appreciated for their understated role in society, and message boards in general.

KyLlE must have been in Model United Nations or done a legal internship back in the day.

It never ceases to amaze me when you display your deduction skills 

["The Kids Can Play"]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The grammar police are never properly appreciated for their understated role in society, and message boards in general.

KyLlE must have been in Model United Nations or done a legal internship back in the day.

That's fine, just make sure he does it for every single post here going forward.