The TLR Manager Thread

[Paulie4Pres]

Just now, VAfan said:

I don't have a problem with running up the score. I didn't have a problem with Yermin swinging.

Buf if I KNOW, because I've managed 5,000+ baseball games, that hitting a HR in that situation is going to get the other team to throw at my player, then I'm giving him a TAKE SIGN 100% of the time for that one pitch.  Because the risk of him getting hurt is real.  Winning 16-4 instead of 15-4 is completely meaningless. 

 

Who gives a shit? Seriously. The problem here isn't what transpired. The problem is the "unwritten rule" that, evidently, not a whole lot of players give a shit about. A rule that doesn't make sense, anyways. 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, who cares when he swings???? There's no difference.

The entire concept of "don't do something completely within the rules because it will piss off the other team and they will do something outside the rules" is absurd. But then again, I'm a hockey player, and pissing off the other team is actually something you strive for.

[joejoesox]

1 minute ago, harkness99 said:

The problem is that half of your novela here is based off of a lie and something that never happened.

There was no take sign - go back and watch the game. At the end no one is even looking at the dugout because there is no point.  They probably expected Yermin not to swing - but all the "i ran to the top of the dugout" ect ect - that's all a bunch of BS.

 

This theory that Larussa was playing chess and not checkers made me fucking laugh so hard... cmon man

If this is what he was doing - he would have said that the 20 times he was asked about it.

Just no way man

agreed, there was no fucking TAKE sign on 3-0, TLR is a known liar, like most lawyers, he's so full of shit and once again making this about himself, I cannot wait until this fucker is gone

[caulfield12]

Just now, VAfan said:

I don't have a problem with running up the score. I didn't have a problem with Yermin swinging.

Buf if I KNOW, because I've managed 5,000+ baseball games, that hitting a HR in that situation is going to get the other team to throw at my player, then I'm giving him a TAKE SIGN 100% of the time for that one pitch.  Because the risk of him getting hurt is real.  Winning 16-4 instead of 15-4 is completely meaningless. 

Even the Twins and Baldelli are not so obtuse as to realize that Yermin's having his 15 minutes of fan...maybe longer.

They're not going to really try to hurt someone so "fun loving" as Mercedes or Eloy Jimenez that everyone loves to be around.

He's just exuberant and excited to have an opportunity to be on a major league roster each and every day.   It's probably surreal.  This is a kid who went something like a decade putting his time in, and was THIS CLOSE to being out of the game a number of times, if not for the fact that teams (even INDY ones) always need catchers, if for nothing else than bullpen work.

This isn't an established star like TA taking advantage to pad his stats.

It's a rookie who still doesn't know what the limits ARE, because he's just enjoying being in the spotlight too much.

That's why it's such a great (national) baseball story that can inspire kids all around the world who don't fit the mold of what a traditional baseball, basketball or soccer player looks like.

[VAfan]

Just now, harkness99 said:

thats not why larussa cared - he said over and over why he cared.. because he thought it was bad sportsmanship..

 

It had nothing to do with protecting the players... no one is buying that line. 

Here's James Fegan's quote from the Athletic.

“I don’t ever want to give the other team an excuse to take a shot at one of our players,” La Russa said. “You say ‘unwritten rules,’ but they’re just common sense.”

[ShoeLessRob]

2 minutes ago, VAfan said:

You missed the TLR quote where he said if it was 3-1, he was fine with hitting the crap out of the ball. 

TLR KNEW where the line was in the Twins eyes, and he was proven 100% correct in that assessment. 

That’s the whole problem and everyone’s point. If people are still hanging onto those old ideas, then they have failed to adapt and move forward. Almost everyone is on Yermin or Tatis or whoever’s side. Who gives a fuck if it’s 3-0 or 3-1, IT DOES NOT MATTER. 

[harkness99]

Just now, VAfan said:

So you think TLR was just LYING when he said he and the 3rd base coach gave the take sign??  How do you know what the signs were? 

 

Yes he was pulling most of that shit straight out of his ass - go watch the video from jomboy.

I  dont know the signs - i said no one was even looking for signs.. because they weren't.  Yermin looks for like maybe 1 sec the entire at bat towards the dugout.

No one is looking for signs in a 16-4 game.. because there arent any 

[caulfield12]

Just now, joesaiditstrue said:

agreed, there was no fucking TAKE sign on 3-0, TLR is a known liar, like most lawyers, he's so full of shit and once again making this about himself, I cannot wait until this fucker is gone

There has to be a video somewhere of him SUPPOSEDLY making some motions or shouting "TAKE TAKE TAKE" from the dugout....since he's emotive as the Corpse Bride so far this year, rarely venturing out of the dugout, just having a hard time believing he was suddenly so demonstrative about this of all things in a blowout victory...when there's been hundreds of bad umpiring calls on balls and strikes to at least make an occasional appearance about to stick up for your pitchers and hitters.

[VAfan]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Even the Twins and Baldelli are not so obtuse as to realize that Yermin's having his 15 minutes of fan...maybe longer.

They're not going to really try to hurt someone so "fun loving" as Mercedes or Eloy Jimenez that everyone loves to be around.

He's just exuberant and excited to have an opportunity to be on a major league roster each and every day.   It's probably surreal.  This is a kid who went something like a decade putting his time in, and was THIS CLOSE to being out of the game a number of times, if not for the fact that teams (even INDY ones) always need catchers, if for nothing else than bullpen work.

This isn't an established star like TA taking advantage to pad his stats.

It's a rookie who still doesn't know what the limits ARE, because he's just enjoying being in the spotlight too much.

That's why it's such a great (national) baseball story that can inspire kids all around the world who don't fit the mold of what a traditional baseball, basketball or soccer player looks like.

But as fun as Yermin is, if he doesn't play for the team, and decides to just chuck the signs and do his thing, he's not helping the club as much as he could be. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

Here's James Fegan's quote from the Athletic.

“I don’t ever want to give the other team an excuse to take a shot at one of our players,” La Russa said. “You say ‘unwritten rules,’ but they’re just common sense.”

But they really DIDN'T want to...they just went through the motions, like Jon Garland back in the day being ordered by Ozzie to hit someone and MISSING the batter.

[caulfield12]

Just now, VAfan said:

But as fun as Yermin is, if he doesn't play for the team, and decides to just chuck the signs and do his thing, he's not helping the club as much as he could be. 

This team would be at 4 games over .500 without him.

Without LaRussa, we'd be at +14 or +16.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

26 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Here's my take on the Yermin 3-0 HR. 

1. Tony LaRussa, who has managed more than 5,000 games, knew EXACTLY what would happen if Yermin teed off on a 3-0 pitch up 15-4 in the 9th inning. 

2. TLR KNEW, I'm sure because he'd seen it happen before many many times, that the Twins would be pissed, AND WOULD THROW THE BASEBALL AT YERMIN or another Sox player in retaliation because of Yermin's swing. 

3. TLR also KNEW that the risk of injury to his player from being thrown at, while not high, was INFINITELY more important than hitting a HR or a base hit in the 15-4 blowout and showing up the Twins. 

4. So, to PROTECT HIS PLAYER, and HIS TEAM, TLR gave the TAKE sign to Yermin on the 3-0 pitch.

5. This was ABSOLUTELY the correct call.  

6. TLR was thinking AHEAD at the repercussions of swinging 3-0. 

7. Yermin, meanwhile, was completely consumed into himself when he ignored the TAKE sign and swung away. He didn't know the likely repercussions, because he'd NEVER been in this situation in a major league game.  Tony LaRussa, on the other hand, had managed more than 5,000 such games. 

8. So when Yermin ignored the take sign and hit the HR, LaRussa said he would be disciplined, because he put his health and the team at risk. Whatever discipline it was did not keep Yermin out of the next two games, so it was not severe. But it was enough to get across the point that you need to respect the take sign. There was a logical reason behind it meant to protect his health and the team health. 

9. LaRussa's other comment about Yermin "playing his game" was also appropriate. Players have to play for the team. Tony isn't reigning them in for no reason. He said if he's swung away at 3-1, he would have been fine with it.  But LaRussa knew were the line was in the Twins eyes, and he was 100% correct about that when the Twins threw at Yermin the next game. 

10. Who started the dissension here?  Not TLR.  He put on a take sign that NO ONE would have known about if Yermin hadn't blown it off.

11. The controversy, and the risk, was started by Yermin Mercedes, who ignored the sign because he couldn't help himself, and who certainly wasn't thinking through the consequences. 

12. I'm not defending in any way the Twins getting pissed and throwing at Yermin.  But it was nearly 100% certain to happen once Yermin jacked the ball out of the park. And TLR knew it. 

13. So, I think TLR was the ONLY one thinking ahead, and the only one to put Yermin's health and the team ahead of a meaningless HR in the 9th inning of a 15-4 game. 

14. When I read that Yermin had hit the HR, I personally didn't have a problem with it. Now that I've read some articles about it and realized WHY TLR put on the take sign, I believe that TLR is right. 

15. This has NOTHING TO DO with Old School v. New School.  It has to do with TLR knowing, because he's managed 5,000+ baseball games, EXACTLY what was going to happen if Yermin jacked that 3-0 pitch.  He also KNEW that the game hadn't changed to the point where the Twins would just overlook this and not retaliate. Anyone thinking that WOULDN"T happen is just naive. 

16. Lastly, a lot is being made of TLR not having a problem with the Twins reaction.  I don't think he encouraged or condoned it.  I just think he knew that was going to happen, and when it did, it drove home the point of why he gave Yermin the take sign in the first place. 

17. There have been a LOT of guys injured over the years from being hit by a pitched ball.  There have been ZERO games outcomes changed by swinging at a 3-0 pitch with a 15-4 lead in the 9th inning. 

18. So, anyone criticizing TLR is effectively ignoring the risks of the former for something that might be fun, but has ZERO benefit to winning a baseball game, which is the point of playing them. 

I'm not apologizing for TLR here. I'm saying he was WAY more savvy about the situation than any of his critics have been. And certainly WAY more savvy than Yermin Mercedes, who appears to have only been thinking about himself. 

Larussa was so worried about yermin getting thrown at and hurt he said he had no problem with the Twins doing exactly that. Good call!

[ShoeLessRob]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

But as fun as Yermin is, if he doesn't play for the team, and decides to just chuck the signs and do his thing, he's not helping the club as much as he could be. 

He is playing for the team, he hit a home run, which added a run to his team score which increased the likelyhood they will win the game. 

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Here's James Fegan's quote from the Athletic.

“I don’t ever want to give the other team an excuse to take a shot at one of our players,” La Russa said. “You say ‘unwritten rules,’ but they’re just common sense.”

I mean, in your long post about Tony being a 4D savant, you missed that Tony defended the Twins throwing at Yermin and said the ball might have just gotten away from him.

It's not about protecting Yermin. It's about protecting how he thinks baseball should be played. Which is exactly why he said he wanted to come back and manage.

[VAfan]

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

[southsideirish71]

30 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Here's my take on the Yermin 3-0 HR. 

1. Tony LaRussa, who has managed more than 5,000 games, knew EXACTLY what would happen if Yermin teed off on a 3-0 pitch up 15-4 in the 9th inning. 

2. TLR KNEW, I'm sure because he'd seen it happen before many many times, that the Twins would be pissed, AND WOULD THROW THE BASEBALL AT YERMIN or another Sox player in retaliation because of Yermin's swing. 

3. TLR also KNEW that the risk of injury to his player from being thrown at, while not high, was INFINITELY more important than hitting a HR or a base hit in the 15-4 blowout and showing up the Twins. 

4. So, to PROTECT HIS PLAYER, and HIS TEAM, TLR gave the TAKE sign to Yermin on the 3-0 pitch.

5. This was ABSOLUTELY the correct call.  

6. TLR was thinking AHEAD at the repercussions of swinging 3-0. 

7. Yermin, meanwhile, was completely consumed into himself when he ignored the TAKE sign and swung away. He didn't know the likely repercussions, because he'd NEVER been in this situation in a major league game.  Tony LaRussa, on the other hand, had managed more than 5,000 such games. 

8. So when Yermin ignored the take sign and hit the HR, LaRussa said he would be disciplined, because he put his health and the team at risk. Whatever discipline it was did not keep Yermin out of the next two games, so it was not severe. But it was enough to get across the point that you need to respect the take sign. There was a logical reason behind it meant to protect his health and the team health. 

9. LaRussa's other comment about Yermin "playing his game" was also appropriate. Players have to play for the team. Tony isn't reigning them in for no reason. He said if he's swung away at 3-1, he would have been fine with it.  But LaRussa knew were the line was in the Twins eyes, and he was 100% correct about that when the Twins threw at Yermin the next game. 

10. Who started the dissension here?  Not TLR.  He put on a take sign that NO ONE would have known about if Yermin hadn't blown it off.

11. The controversy, and the risk, was started by Yermin Mercedes, who ignored the sign because he couldn't help himself, and who certainly wasn't thinking through the consequences. 

12. I'm not defending in any way the Twins getting pissed and throwing at Yermin.  But it was nearly 100% certain to happen once Yermin jacked the ball out of the park. And TLR knew it. 

13. So, I think TLR was the ONLY one thinking ahead, and the only one to put Yermin's health and the team ahead of a meaningless HR in the 9th inning of a 15-4 game. 

14. When I read that Yermin had hit the HR, I personally didn't have a problem with it. Now that I've read some articles about it and realized WHY TLR put on the take sign, I believe that TLR is right. 

15. This has NOTHING TO DO with Old School v. New School.  It has to do with TLR knowing, because he's managed 5,000+ baseball games, EXACTLY what was going to happen if Yermin jacked that 3-0 pitch.  He also KNEW that the game hadn't changed to the point where the Twins would just overlook this and not retaliate. Anyone thinking that WOULDN"T happen is just naive. 

16. Lastly, a lot is being made of TLR not having a problem with the Twins reaction.  I don't think he encouraged or condoned it.  I just think he knew that was going to happen, and when it did, it drove home the point of why he gave Yermin the take sign in the first place. 

17. There have been a LOT of guys injured over the years from being hit by a pitched ball.  There have been ZERO games outcomes changed by swinging at a 3-0 pitch with a 15-4 lead in the 9th inning. 

18. So, anyone criticizing TLR is effectively ignoring the risks of the former for something that might be fun, but has ZERO benefit to winning a baseball game, which is the point of playing them. 

I'm not apologizing for TLR here. I'm saying he was WAY more savvy about the situation than any of his critics have been. And certainly WAY more savvy than Yermin Mercedes, who appears to have only been thinking about himself. 

 

[Paulie4Pres]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

But as fun as Yermin is, if he doesn't play for the team, and decides to just chuck the signs and do his thing, he's not helping the club as much as he could be. 

It's pretty hard to not play for the team in baseball. Considering that....almost the entire game is focused around 1 vs. 1 encounters and individual performance.

I've seen the argument presented that he "ignored" the signs. I didn't see any signs. I didn't see anyone giving signs. I didn't see anyone LOOKING for signs. I sure as shit didn't hear/see TLR leaving the dugout and yelling "TAKE!" If that had happened, surely, by now, someone would have evidence of it?

It was a blowout game. I doubt there were ANY signs being given.

[harkness99]

Just now, VAfan said:

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

good try though

[VAfan]

Just now, Quin said:

I mean, in your long post about Tony being a 4D savant, you missed that Tony defended the Twins throwing at Yermin and said the ball might have just gotten away from him.

It's not about protecting Yermin. It's about protecting how he thinks baseball should be played. Which is exactly why he said he wanted to come back and manage.

I discussed this point in my long post.  I take those comments as intending to defuse the situation so the Twins don't try to throw at any more of his players. 

[Paulie4Pres]

Just now, VAfan said:

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

 

No, he didn't. TLR created the controversy by AIRING DIRTY LAUNDRY. If he just keeps his drunken mouth shut, this is a fucking nothing burger.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

You honestly need to seek help. 

[Tony]

4 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

I don't understand how someone like you can function at a human level if you believe the bolded to be true. 

Boggles the mind. 

[RagahRagah]

6 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my peace about this subject. 

Yermin created the controversy, not TLR.

TLR's motive was to protect his player and the team, which was the right motive. 

TLR saw what was coming in retaliation, and was proven correct. 

Yermin could have still had his fun if the 3-0 pitch was called a strike by jacking the hell out of the 3-1 pitch. 

Y'all just want to hate on TLR, but he made the right call here. 

This is literally one of the most arbitrary, twisted, nonsensical pieces of mental gymnastics I have ever read. Good God.

Edited May 20, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Vafan cited the amount of games larussa managed more times in that post than the amount of times larussa has apologized for drinking and driving. That's an impressive feat by any means.

Imagine typing that out over and over and thinking that sells the point somehow. 

[harkness99]

the biggest irony is that TLR is trying to white knight this integrity of baseball stuff...

 

and actually he is having the opposite result - he is making people hate it even more.

[chitownsportsfan]

As I've said the unwritten rules here are bullshit but TLR was correct that the Twins were a) not happy and b) would retaliate.  So clearly there are times when you don't swing in order to not get beaned the next day.  Now, that is ABSOLUTE HORSESHIT and one of the main reasons the game we love struggles at times to connect with fans -- but TLR was correct about it.