The Say Sorry to Rick Hahn Thread

[chitownsportsfan]

Every metric has this team as one of baseball's best.  Sure things can go wrong, but about 1/6 of the way this club looks pretty loaded.  Even the fringe guys are doing enough, often enough to help the club win.

At this point, and once again -- it's early, the greatest worry perhaps to have is that a richer club decides to give Hahn the keys this offseason.

[35thstreetswarm]

Most loaded Sox team ever turns out to be good...imagine that. All without Garrett Richards 

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Every metric has this team as one of baseball's best.  Sure things can go wrong, but about 1/6 of the way this club looks pretty loaded.  Even the fringe guys are doing enough, often enough to help the club win.

At this point, and once again -- it's early, the greatest worry perhaps to have is that a richer club decides to give Hahn the keys this offseason.

Hahaha...deliberately trying to spark an argument, aren’t you?

Well, Abreu, Grandal, Giolito, Keuchel and Hendriks have combined for something like -0.6 value, but the Sox are still sitting pretty with everything in the division resting on the Royals’ starting pitching somehow holding up.

Right now, I would happily hand over the organization to the Brewers, Giants (new GM has hit FA pitcher after FA pitcher right on the head), Astros, Dodgers, Cardinals, Braves, Rays, A’s, Indians, etc., front offices and not even blink.  Heck, I will throw in Kim Ng from Miami fir good measure.  But, with the requirement there be a payroll floor of $150 million going forward in order to legitimately compete for a World Series title.

A stronger GM stands in the way of JR and forces his owner to choose between sentimental heart/emotion and rational logic/pragmatism and risk mitigation, which Hahn mostly represents.  If he’s actually as coveted as everyone claims, he should easily be able find another top position despite the clearly less than stellar FA and drafting record.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by caulfield12

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Hahaha...deliberately trying to spark an argument, aren’t you?

Well, Abreu, Grandal, Giolito, Keuchel and Hendriks have combined for something like -0.6 value, but the Sox are still sitting pretty with everything in the division resting on the Royals’ starting pitching somehow holding up.

Right now, I would happily hand over the organization to the Brewers, Giants (new GM has hit FA pitcher after FA pitcher right on the head), Astros, Dodgers, Cardinals, Braves, Rays, A’s, Indians, etc., front offices and not even blink.  Heck, I will throw in Kim Ng from Miami fir good measure.  But, with the requirement there be a payroll floor of $150 million going forward in order to legitimately compete for a World Series title.

A stronger GM stands in the way of JR and forces his owner to choose between sentimental heart/emotion and rational logic/pragmatism and risk mitigation, which Hahn mostly represents.  If he’s actually as coveted as everyone claims, he should easily be able find another top position despite the clearly less than stellar FA and drafting record.

 

 

Caulfield, easily one of the worst posts in Soxtalk history right here.  

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Rick Hahn is amazing. We are lucky to have him. Some people in our LaRusstans discord group were talking about making Instagram stan accounts for Ricky/Jerry/Tony/Kenny so they all know how much they’re appreciated. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Caulfield, easily one of the worst posts in Soxtalk history right here.  

If the White Sox make three consecutive AL Championship series, build a Hahn statue and give him a lifetime guaranteed contract. Heck, see the bar lower, just two out of three from 2021-2023.

Edited May 2, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Caulfield, easily one of the worst posts in Soxtalk history right here.  

Jerksticks, the Raiderettes have some cheerleading openings after all the #metoo lawsuits.

[NWINFan]

I have nothing against Rick Hahn, but I don't think I have to apologize to him. What am I, as a fan, have to be sorry for? Going on 13 years without a division title which is the second longest such stretch since divisional play began in 1969?

The rebuild is shaping up, but the White Sox haven't won anything yet. We will see if this process truly works out and how serious this franchise is about winning.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

 

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Hahaha...deliberately trying to spark an argument, aren’t you?

Well, Abreu, Grandal, Giolito, Keuchel and Hendriks have combined for something like -0.6 value, but the Sox are still sitting pretty with everything in the division resting on the Royals’ starting pitching somehow holding up.

Right now, I would happily hand over the organization to the Brewers, Giants (new GM has hit FA pitcher after FA pitcher right on the head), Astros, Dodgers, Cardinals, Braves, Rays, A’s, Indians, etc., front offices and not even blink.  Heck, I will throw in Kim Ng from Miami fir good measure.  But, with the requirement there be a payroll floor of $150 million going forward in order to legitimately compete for a World Series title.

A stronger GM stands in the way of JR and forces his owner to choose between sentimental heart/emotion and rational logic/pragmatism and risk mitigation, which Hahn mostly represents.  If he’s actually as coveted as everyone claims, he should easily be able find another top position despite the clearly less than stellar FA and drafting record.

 

 

You stand up to Jerry and the loyalty disappears. The bottom line is king. Hahn works within the framework of that bottom line  . We have no idea what kind of GM he would be given a different set of parameters. I am neither for nor against Hahn, he is just a puppet as any GM under Reinsdorf would be.

Edited May 2, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[MEANS]

Bah…..apologize? He should apologize to us for how long we’ve been waiting and nothing has really been accomplished yet. It’s still early in the season but “we” should apologize? That’s ridiculous.

[SonofaRoache]

I haven't been happy with some of the moves but I've had in Rick and this organization overall. But an apology thread isn't warranted until we win the division or a playoff series. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 5/1/2021 at 10:55 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

Every metric has this team as one of baseball's best.  Sure things can go wrong, but about 1/6 of the way this club looks pretty loaded.  Even the fringe guys are doing enough, often enough to help the club win.

At this point, and once again -- it's early, the greatest worry perhaps to have is that a richer club decides to give Hahn the keys this offseason.

Ok, I'm game:

 

1. Apologize? For what, exactly?

2. Looking at Hahn's record as GM, what, exactly, has he accomplished?

3. Some of his key acquisitions over the years have taken a giant shit. Some that are CURRENTLY with this team haven't worked out, or have not worked out as well as hoped. Where has he been right, where most of us have been wrong?

4. This feels like trying to "spike the football" before crossing the end zone. Exactly what has been won in this season?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Tony]

Rick Hahn was named GM in late October, 2012. He was assistant GM beginning in 2002.

But just looking at his run as “the guy”.....he didn’t have a winning season in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019......it took a COVID-shortened season for him to achieve his first winning record as GM, and the Sox won one game in the Playoffs. 

He has been the man in charge for 8+ seasons and has 1 playoff victory to his name. 

No, I will not be apologizing to Rick Hahn. As others have said, it would be far more appropriate for the organization to apologize to us. 

 

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I haven't been happy with some of the moves but I've had in Rick and this organization overall. But an apology thread isn't warranted until we win the division or a playoff series. 

Or, I don’t know, beat the Royals...it’s not like we are passing the 1927-1933 Yankees here.

Without Yermin, Kopech and Rodon, it’s a Beauty & the Beast style pitchforks and hand brooms insurrection at the gates of 35th & Shields.  Two of those three feel almost accidental on the part of Hahn.

Edited May 2, 2021 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

17 minutes ago, Tony said:

Rick Hahn was named GM in late October, 2012. He was assistant GM beginning in 2002.

But just looking at his run as “the guy”.....he didn’t have a winning season in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019......it took a COVID-shortened season for him to achieve his first winning record as GM, and the Sox won one game in the Playoffs. 

He has been the man in charge for 8+ seasons and has 1 playoff victory to his name. 

No, I will not be apologizing to Rick Hahn. As others have said, it would be far more appropriate for the organization to apologize to us. 

 

I mean it's not that cut and dry.  There is very little evidence to support the conclusion Hahn was running the club until about 2016-17 when the rebuild started.  I've said it many times he should have just resigned if he was being overrode on a full rebuild but I'm happy he stayed.  Frankly Hahn is proving he's a good GM now that JR and KW are mostly out of his way.

[RagahRagah]

12 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Caulfield, easily one of the worst posts in Soxtalk history right here.  

Your level of water carrying is astounding. 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean it's not that cut and dry.  There is very little evidence to support the conclusion Hahn was running the club until about 2016-17 when the rebuild started.  I've said it many times he should have just resigned if he was being overrode on a full rebuild but I'm happy he stayed.  Frankly Hahn is proving he's a good GM now that JR and KW are mostly out of his way.

Bad results?  KW and TLR are mostly responsible, right?

Because great or HoF front office execs have a reputation for being constantly “overrode” in their duties.

 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Your level of water carrying is astounding. 

I feel like there’s some kind of Jim Jones-level of cult following that’s going on here...I mean, shouldn’t we actually win our division every 2-3 years with all the natural advantages we have over the other four markets in the AL Central (and same with the Cubs as well, except for St. Louis each year)?

[Tony]

15 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean it's not that cut and dry.  There is very little evidence to support the conclusion Hahn was running the club until about 2016-17 when the rebuild started.  I've said it many times he should have just resigned if he was being overrode on a full rebuild but I'm happy he stayed.  Frankly Hahn is proving he's a good GM now that JR and KW are mostly out of his way.

You don’t know if any of that is true. We can speculate all we want, but what is fact are the results. And again, he’s been either Assistant GM or GM since 2002. The Sox record since 2002 is borderline horrific. 
 

So again, there is no “apology” coming to a man who has held a VERY high ranking position with one of least successful teams in baseball since he began his employment tenure. If you want to shower him with roses, go nuts. But I don’t know how much support you’re going to have. 

[RagahRagah]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

I feel like there’s some kind of Jim Jones-level of cult following that’s going on here...I mean, shouldn’t we actually win our division every 2-3 years with all the natural advantages we have over the other four markets in the AL Central (and same with the Cubs as well, except for St. Louis each year)?

I appreciate the awesome extensions, but as far as FA and actually winning and results, and basically the big picture go... Hahn is unequivocally a failure. It's really not arguable. You can blame Jerry for some of it and that is fair but how the team does is going to reflect on him and his FA acquisitions (and lack of them) for the most part have been abysmal.

Edited May 2, 2021 by RagahRagah

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

You don’t know if any of that is true. We can speculate all we want, but what is fact are the results. And again, he’s been either Assistant GM or GM since 2002. The Sox record since 2002 is borderline horrific. 
 

So again, there is no “apology” coming to a man who has held a VERY high ranking position with one of least successful teams in baseball since he began his employment tenure. If you want to shower him with roses, go nuts. But I don’t know how much support you’re going to have. 

I think VAFAN fan must have paid him some type of bribe in “likes” for a puff piece on Hahn...whenever any defense starts off with excuses and tons of rationalizations and anything but an honest reckoning with the actual results on the field (such as nobody could have possibly foreseen Eloy getting hurt or Grandal/Abreu/Keuchel declining).   Or he’s now siddenly a genius for not extending Giolito when it was never likely to happen in the first place...

Edited May 2, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Thanks for jinxing the season, lol...between this and the MAKINGS of a juggernaut thread.

Edited May 2, 2021 by caulfield12

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean it's not that cut and dry.  There is very little evidence to support the conclusion Hahn was running the club until about 2016-17 when the rebuild started.  I've said it many times he should have just resigned if he was being overrode on a full rebuild but I'm happy he stayed.  Frankly Hahn is proving he's a good GM now that JR and KW are mostly out of his way.

I mean the evidence was his job title was literally GM. 

I like Hahn but this insistence on giving hahn credit for the very very little success he's had in his tenure and blaming the failures on everyone else is laughable. Kenny, as GM, WON more than hahn and everyone blames Kenny for failures. It's wild. 

[ShoeLessRob]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean it's not that cut and dry.  There is very little evidence to support the conclusion Hahn was running the club until about 2016-17 when the rebuild started.  I've said it many times he should have just resigned if he was being overrode on a full rebuild but I'm happy he stayed.  Frankly Hahn is proving he's a good GM now that JR and KW are mostly out of his way.

I would agree with this if TLR wasn’t hired by JR. 

[NWINFan]

I know it is easy to talk about trades, but Hahn needs to do something with Robert now injured. Luery Garcia and Jake Lamb are not going to do anything for you. Billy Hamilton should never get a meaningful plate appearance again. Something needs to be or the losses are going to mount.