Addressing the OF shortage (Robert Injury Spinoff)

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

At his best, Leury is a 1 WAR player in a 600 PA season, and some years he's been a 0 WAR player. Heyward is basically a 2 WAR player every year since 2016. Leury also has something of an injury history himself, as does Adam Eaton, as does Billy Hamilton. If Hamilton and Leury are on the IL by May 15, you can't sit here and say "oh how could this possibly have happened no one could ever have seen this coming". 

Heyward would probably platoon with Engel if Engel ever comes back, or could give Eaton some time to get healthy, and would take over RF as the primary option next year when Eaton is gone. That would be a reasonable thing to do as it would give you a RF who can move over to CF if Robert has any long-term lingering issues and needs more time off.

Is it worth 1 WAR to give up the assets you will need to for acquiring him?

Actually it will be less than that as they are part way into the season.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ptatc

[Wisebri224]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Adding $51 million in salary for the next 3 years is also a form of mortgaging the future considering way JR operates.

Never said we are paying it all.   Colorado would need to cover at least 20-25 million.  Totally would agree at the 51 million number

[GermanSoxFan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Technically it results in the Sox having a par RF for 2 more years, because if he remains a 2 WAR player, that's an average MLB player. And he's some depth who can shift over to CF. And he could cover for Eloy if he gets hurt again. And of Adolfo ever put things together, it can be a platoon.

It's more money than this org would want to spend, but that's the kind of player good teams will have around - often overpaid, but capable of being subbed in when needed.

I can’t think of any MLB team acquiring and paying a guy over $13M to be a 4th OF, it just doesn’t happen even for teams that operate with a mich higher budget.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Is it worth 1 WAR to give up the assets you will need to for acquiring him?

Actually it will be less than that as they are part way into the season.

If you're only giving up money...yes. That's why I circled that guy - the Cubs would move him without requiring a return of any prospects of value, they would be satisfied with the payroll savings. 

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you're only giving up money...yes. That's why I circled that guy - the Cubs would move him without requiring a return of any prospects of value, they would be satisfied with the payroll savings. 

Well they would need to give up something because it would be a trade. I guess it depends on the price as Heyward has not been very good lately and really won't help them much.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ptatc

[Balta1701]

Just now, GermanSoxFan said:

I can’t think of any MLB team acquiring and paying a guy over $13M to be a 4th OF, it just doesn’t happen even for teams that operate with a mich higher budget.

AJ Pollock.

The DJ Lemahieu contract with the Yankees was basically that except IF.

[Balta1701]

Just now, ptatc said:

Well they would need to give up something because it would be a trade. I guess it depends on the price as Heyward has not been very good lately.

Yes, technically the White Sox would have to trade something, but this is where you can make use of a "Nick Williams" or someone in the minors who is out of options this year.

[GermanSoxFan]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

AJ Pollock.

The DJ Lemahieu contract with the Yankees was basically that except IF.

Not really comparable. The plan for both of these guys was to be in the lineup every day, just not with a set position. None of them were signed as backups.

[Balta1701]

Just now, GermanSoxFan said:

Not really comparable. The plan for both of these guys was to be in the lineup every day, just not with a set position. None of them were signed as backups.

:::motions in the direction of the White Sox's outfield:::

[GermanSoxFan]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

:::motions in the direction of the White Sox's outfield:::

So what do you do with Heyward for 2+ years once Eloy, Engel and Robert are back? You‘re then stuck with him as your starting RF. Just like Eaton, the Sox can and should aim higher than a 2nd division starter

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

So what do you do with Heyward for 2+ years once Eloy, Engel and Robert are back? You‘re then stuck with him as your starting RF. Just like Eaton, the Sox can and should aim higher than a 2nd division starter

Why should Adam Engel play everyday exactly? Can someone help me understand this.

[GermanSoxFan]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why should Adam Engel play everyday exactly? Can someone help me understand this.

He shouldn’t, but I would take Engel as an every day CF over Heyward at this point of his career.

 

My 2022 OF would be Eloy/Vaughn-Robert-A better RF than Eaton or Heyward(acquiring Heyward would just mean he is the starting RF) with Engel being the 4th OF

Edited May 4, 2021 by GermanSoxFan

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

So what do you do with Heyward for 2+ years once Eloy, Engel and Robert are back? You‘re then stuck with him as your starting RF. Just like Eaton, the Sox can and should aim higher than a 2nd division starter

Adam Engel is not a starter. With this injury - there's a chance he may not even be offered arbitration next offseason.

Luis Robert sure seems likely to need at least some careful treatment next April, assuming he's back full time by then.

Eloy Jiminez should probably have his OF time limited. If you're counting on Eloy Jiminez as one of your outfielders, you've just justified having an expensive and experienced backup, because apparently he's just not going to stay healthy out there.

And RF - there's still no plan for that even next year other than "sign someone again". So you pay a premium to have that covered the next year or so, but you also add the OF who can help right now.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said:

He shouldn’t, but I would take Engel as an every day CF over Heyward at this point of his career.

I would take a platoon of them, if Engel ever came back, as the best we can do.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why should Adam Engel play everyday exactly? Can someone help me understand this.

Not only that, but there’s really not a lot of reason to be confident his hamstring will handle playing every day.

[fathom]

It’s pretty simple, go get Gallo.  Team needs power anyways and you get him for all next season.  Of course you will have to overpay, but what contending teams don’t have to do that once in a while.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s pretty simple, go get Gallo.  Team needs power anyways and you get him for all next season.  Of course you will have to overpay, but what contending teams don’t have to do that once in a while.

I do wonder with how Texas specifically wanted Dunning, if they aren't as interested in our young pitchers which could be a hurdle. But yes let's go for it. Gallo is awesome. Awesome players are great. Turn our frowns upside down.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Given the circumstances, the White Sox need to be flexible with the payroll here. Heyward at $8 million a year over the next 2 years would have been a decent addition in the offseason. Given a desperation penalty on the White Sox - if they could get him right now, today, and pay $12 or $13 million a year without having to give up any real talent, I would say get that done. 

What do you think is more likely making, a trade for Heyward thus adding to payroll and giving up prospect(s) or just giving up prospect(s) and finding a cheap option in the 25- 30yr . olds out there either on the 25 or 40 of some non contending type clubs ? Possible names to be considered, Tapia, Hilliard, Hampson (Colorado) Tim Lacastro (Az), Austin Hays (O's) Marisnick (Cubs) Naquin (Reds). Not a lot out there for CF if I eliminate guys like Chris Taylor and Tyler O'Neill as being too valuable to their current teams. I should probably eliminate Austin Hays too.  Plug the hole maybe with a lesser player and see how the Sox hold up and then maybe JR loosens up the purse strings later if the Sox can hang in there. Probably end up with someone like Roman Quinn.

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

20 minutes ago, FriendlyNorthsider said:

From a Cubs fan perspective that would absolutely get done. I said in the offseason thread that pre-Eaton, Heyward +Kimbrel would be a way to add some solid defense and a great closer for just money. 

I still think Bryant would be a great fit for the Sox, but that would only be done if that plan was to move Engel to center full time

Agree on Bryant. The Sox can live with Adam Engel as the everyday center fielder if they bring in a big bat like Bryant. 

Probably won't happen though. A lot of Sox fans and Hahn included seem more worried about the 2023 season than winning ball games today.

[Balta1701]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What do you think is more likely making, a trade for Heyward thus adding to payroll and giving up prospect(s) or just giving up prospect(s) and finding a cheap option in the 25- 30yr . olds out there either on the 25 or 40 of some non contending type clubs ? Possible names to be considered, Tapia, Hilliard, Hampson (Colorado) Tim Lacastro (Az), Austin Hays (O's) Marisnick (Cubs) Naquin (Reds). Not a lot out there for CF if I eliminate guys like Chris Taylor and Tyler O'Neill as being too valuable to their current teams. I should probably eliminate Austin Hays too.  Plug the hole maybe with a lesser player and see how the Sox hold up and then maybe JR loosens up the purse strings later if the Sox can hang in there. Probably end up with someone like Roman Quinn.

Honestly, I think the white sox are likely to do neither and they'll just hope Leury and Hamilton can cover it. I don't think that JR will let them add to payroll, and I don't think LaRussa will be so convinced that Hamilton and Leury can't cover it to force him to trade players away.

[Jose Abreu]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s pretty simple, go get Gallo.  Team needs power anyways and you get him for all next season.  Of course you will have to overpay, but what contending teams don’t have to do that once in a while.

100% agreed. And to comment on an earlier topic, Gallo does play a solid CF. The main reason he got moved to RF is because they have some younger players with higher defensive ceilings such as Taveras that they wanted to try

[GermanSoxFan]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s pretty simple, go get Gallo.  Team needs power anyways and you get him for all next season.  Of course you will have to overpay, but what contending teams don’t have to do that once in a while.

If we’re a.lowed to dream here: Give me Jesse Winker, probably the most underrated player in all of baseball.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I’ve been beating the Heyward drum since the offseason. All it costs is money and a non-prospect to acquire him. He can play all three OF positions and he hits righties decently well. Even if all the outfielders were healthy, he could still be used as a late inning defensive sub and possibly as a starter over Eaton depending on the matchup.

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

If we’re a.lowed to dream here: Give me Jesse Winker, probably the most underrated player in all of baseball.

Having a great year, 2 more years of control after this season, Reds in winnable division. Not sure I would want to pay that price.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’ve been beating the Heyward drum since the offseason. All it costs is money and a non-prospect to acquire him. He can play all three OF positions and he hits righties decently well. Even if all the outfielders were healthy, he could still be used as a late inning defensive sub and possibly as a starter over Eaton depending on the matchup.

I was down for Heyward before we signed Eaton (when it seemed like there were rumors suggesting it could happen). I'm not so sure now.