Addressing the OF shortage (Robert Injury Spinoff)

[chw42]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Define terrible. He's currently worth.3- .5 WAR depending if its bWAr or FWar. Is anyone in the Sox current group of OF's worth that ?

Even though his wOBA looks good right now (SSS), his wRC+ is 107 cause he plays at Coors. His career numbers away from Coors look flat out terrible over his career (like under .300 wOBA). Even if you think he's started to turn into a better hitter the past 2 years, he's nothing more than a .320 wOBA guy away from Coors. I'm not trading away a guy like Eloy for him. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm just not mortgaging the future if they are gone for two-three months.  It simply doesn't make sense.  If this year is lost due to injury then it is what it is.   

And the window gets smaller and smaller every year. Last year was a playoff team they choose not to mortgage the future for. This year is a playoff team that is being derailed by injuries so hey dont mortgage the future again. There's always 22, 23 while Keuchel gets older, Lynn is gone, Rodon is gone. Kopech steps right into the rotation but who else ?

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Mercedes really picked up the slack, but we’re seeing some cracks in the offense the last ten days.  Eaton looks like his injuries are causing his offense to plummet.

Lineup is going to look even more brutal with no DH the next 2 days.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Mokena94 said:

This is probably a very out there thought, but the Braves are hurting big time for a catcher. Is there a serviceable outfielder on the Braves and maybe a reliever, whom they would be willing to trade for Grandal. Then we could re-sign Lucroy, and platoon him with Collins. There is no way that combo can be any worse offensively or defensively than Grandal, who we are on the rope with for a lot of years and money.

 

I don’t think anyone would take on Grandal’s full contract right now.  Good idea but Braves could probably try to get a cheaper guy.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, manbearpuig said:

Lineup is going to look even more brutal with no DH the next 2 days.

Hamilton will surely play due to it being a homecoming.  No worries, Reds offense stinks at home....

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And the window gets smaller and smaller every year. Last year was a playoff team they choose not to mortgage the future for. This year is a playoff team that is being derailed by injuries so hey dont mortgage the future again. There's always 22, 23 while Keuchel gets older, Lynn is gone, Rodon is gone. Kopech steps right into the rotation but who else ?

I probably wait until the off-season to figure it out. Maybe you get a good offer for Yermin in the off-season from a team that thinks he can catch a little (Marlins were interested last off-season) and DH (maybe universal DH will be a part of the next CBA opening up 15 more jobs).

[Kyyle23]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And the window gets smaller and smaller every year. Last year was a playoff team they choose not to mortgage the future for. This year is a playoff team that is being derailed by injuries so hey dont mortgage the future again. There's always 22, 23 while Keuchel gets older, Lynn is gone, Rodon is gone. Kopech steps right into the rotation but who else ?

The window literally just opened.  Keuchel, Lynn, and Rodon are not keys to everything going forward, I could care less what happens to them going forward.  Eloy is a key going forward.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

You trade prospects then for an upgrade, not a key part of the rebuild going forward.  And yes if Robert is out a few months and they suffer a couple more injuries, this won’t be their year.  What we’re seeing is an organization that neglected their depth in the offseason when everyone knew they needed more help.  Instead of money, it will now require trade assets.

So you trade Vaughn for a significant upgrade  or you trade Eloy ? Mercedes is no use to an NL team. Trade pitching prospects when Rodon  and Lynn are gone next yr and Keuchel is another year older ?

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And the window gets smaller and smaller every year. Last year was a playoff team they choose not to mortgage the future for. This year is a playoff team that is being derailed by injuries so hey dont mortgage the future again. There's always 22, 23 while Keuchel gets older, Lynn is gone, Rodon is gone. Kopech steps right into the rotation but who else ?

If Kopech stays on track, they only need to sign one starter next year. That's a good position for a rotation. Don't mortgage the future and give yourself a chance every year. The best team doesn't always win in a given year for baseball. They need to maximize their chances over a few years to really have a shot at the World Series. Selling out for one year is just too risky.

[fathom]

Just now, manbearpuig said:

I probably wait until the off-season to figure it out. Maybe you get a good offer for Yermin in the off-season from a team that thinks he can catch a little (Marlins were interested last off-season) and DH (maybe universal DH will be a part of the next CBA opening up 15 more jobs).

And who knows what Mercedes actually is come the end of the season.  No reason to accommodate him long term right now after one good month.

[South Side Hit Men]

48 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Why are people acting like Adam Engel is the savior? He’s definitely better than he once was but he’s still not all that great against RHP.

The bigger question are there any statements by Tony that he would even consider playing Engel over his preferred current options of Lamb, Garcia, Eaton and Nick Williams?

Vaughn and Engel can fill in a day or two per week, they must wait their turn behind people who earned it.

Send Yermin down for a few weeks to let him think about what he did to displease Tony. Opens up more playing time for Lamb, Leury and Williams. Based on many comments yesterday, there is a solid percentage of posters here who would applaud that move. Old school, baby. 

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the outfield, and the 5 hole.

- Tony 5:5

 

 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So you trade Vaughn for a significant upgrade  or you trade Eloy ? Mercedes is no use to an NL team. Trade pitching prospects when Rodon  and Lynn are gone next yr and Keuchel is another year older ?

DH is likely next year in NL.

[ptatc]

Just now, fathom said:

And who knows what Mercedes actually is come the end of the season.  No reason to accommodate him long term right now after one good month.

Agreed. there are plenty of players who start out well and the league figures them out and they can't adjust. He may continue it but its best to see a full year and multiple series against the same teams.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Even though his wOBA looks good right now (SSS), his wRC+ is 107 cause he plays at Coors. His career numbers away from Coors look flat out terrible over his career (like under .300 wOBA). Even if you think he's started to turn into a better hitter the past 2 years, he's nothing more than a .320 wOBA guy away from Coors. I'm not trading away a guy like Eloy for him. 

So get more for him or miss the playoffs this year. Pretty simple. Maybe you rather trade Vaughn or are fine with missing the playoffs again and wasting the good group of starting pitching we have. Either decide to try something drastic or remember that you wanted to play for the future when they waste another year.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So get more for him or miss the playoffs this year. Pretty simple. Maybe you rather trade Vaughn or are fine with missing the playoffs again and wasting the good group of starting pitching we have. Either decide to try something drastic or remember that you wanted to play for the future when they waste another year.

Let's see how long Robert is out for before declaring they trade Eloy.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So get more for him or miss the playoffs this year. Pretty simple. Maybe you rather trade Vaughn or are fine with missing the playoffs again and wasting the good group of starting pitching we have. Either decide to try something drastic or remember that you wanted to play for the future when they waste another year.

There are more players and prospects that can be traded besides Eloy Vaughn or Mercedes.  It doesn't have to be only them that will be able to turn around this season which frankly isn't over by a long shot

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

If Kopech stays on track, they only need to sign one starter next year. That's a good position for a rotation. Don't mortgage the future and give yourself a chance every year. The best team doesn't always win in a given year for baseball. They need to maximize their chances over a few years to really have a shot at the World Series. Selling out for one year is just too risky.

It's never just one starter. It hasn't been in the last 2 years and it wont be next yr. The Sox lucked into Rodon being good. Resigning Lynn would help but how likely is that ? And who actually wants to sign him at his age for 2 or 3 more seasons ?

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, manbearpuig said:

Let's see how long Robert is out for before declaring they trade Eloy.

That's a good point but I'm expecting no less than a month and that's being optimistic.,

[Mokena94]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don’t think anyone would take on Grandal’s full contract right now.  Good idea but Braves could probably try to get a cheaper guy.

Would they possibly go for a straight up or Ozuna, and either Garcia or a minor league OF? The money would match pretty well. And I know Ozuna is not tearing it up right now, but he is a major league OF, who is far better option than Lamb, Hamilton, William, Gonzalez, or Garcia.

[chw42]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So get more for him or miss the playoffs this year. Pretty simple. Maybe you rather trade Vaughn or are fine with missing the playoffs again and wasting the good group of starting pitching we have. Either decide to try something drastic or remember that you wanted to play for the future when they waste another year.

You can get someone much better than Tapia without thinking about trading Eloy. Eloy has like 70 trade value on Baseball Trade Values. Tapia has negative value. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by chw42

[chw42]

1 minute ago, Mokena94 said:

Would they possibly go for a straight up or Ozuna, and either Garcia or a minor league OF? The money would match pretty well. And I know Ozuna is not tearing it up right now, but he is a major league OF, who is far better option than Lamb, Hamilton, William, Gonzalez, or Garcia.

Vaughn might actually be better than Ozuna in LF. But a trade like that actually does work financially.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's never just one starter. It hasn't been in the last 2 years and it wont be next yr. The Sox lucked into Rodon being good. Resigning Lynn would help but how likely is that ? And who actually wants to sign him at his age for 2 or 3 more seasons ?

 

They have Giolito, Keuchal, Cease and kopech signed for next year. That leaves one spot. I would sign Lynn for 2-3 years before Rodon.

[fathom]

If you really want to go for it, trade some of your better prospects for Kris Bryant.  He looks incredible this year and would instantly be their best slugger.

[Quin]

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok I can accept that. I did ask at one point if Eloy was worth more than Tapia since he was injured. If that's the case I still prefer for this not to be a lost season if both Eloy and Robert are out another 2 months or more with the starting pitching looking good. Once the Sox fall below .500 or have more injuries and miss the playoffs maybe then you change your mind once we start hearing "wait til next year" once again. It's perfect for JR to keep stringing this along.

Or maybe Robert is only a few weeks?

If that's the case, a lot of problems could be solved by La Russa yanking his head out of his ass and stop his "earn playing time" bullshit with Vaughn and Madrigal and putting Engel and Mendick on the bench instead of Lamb and Leury. 

If it's worse than a few weeks, well, they should still do the above things, but they can trade for an OF, but they should probably trade a minor league pitcher (such as Thompson) before jettisoning core pieces like Eloy, Vaughn, and now possibly Mercedes.

I mean, honestly, you'd want to try and sell astronomically high on Mercedes before trading Eloy. It'd be dumb to trade Yermin right now, but it'd be dumber to trade Eloy.

[Mokena94]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

If you really want to go for it, trade some of your better prospects for Kris Bryant.  He looks incredible this year and would instantly be their best slugger.

That is actually a great idea! I don't foresee much in the way of contributions from Eloy this season, Robert's injury looks like it could be a come and go type after he is out for awhile, Eaton is also looking creaky. Bryant would give the team incredible flexibility, both IF and OF.