GT 5/5: SOX at CIN

[Balta1701]

Well, I'm glad I spent the afternoon using a microscope and tweezers to separate grains of sand.

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, I'm glad I spent the afternoon using a microscope and tweezers to separate grains of sand.

What happened to the good old fashion sieve analysis?

[Mokena94]

37 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

1. Double switch leaving  a pitcher to run in the 10th.

2. Not knowing Abreu could run for the pitcher.

3. Garcia steal attempt.

4. Hamilton not bunting/ not able to bunt with pitcher on 3rd

5. Hamilton at the plate swinging away instead of literally anyone else on the planet

Bottom line, only reason Hamilton should be at the plate in that situation instead of a pinch hitter is if he's bunting.

Agree 100% with all of these. 

1. Why not double switch Mendick for Madrigal, instead of Lamb for Vaughn.

3. Sounds like LaRussa called for the steal, which is beyond ridiculous. Of course your top closer who probably has not been running bases in a few years, is not going to read that and score on the double steal. If trying to avoid the DP, the IF was playing for the play at home - Hamilton is unlikely to be doubled up - and most of all Hamilton would have to actually make contact with the ball.

5. Hamilton absolutely should not have been allowed to bat in that situation. He is not a major league hitter, no way he could hit a fly ball that would be deep enough to score Hendricks. You have Collins, Mercedes, Mendick, and Eaton available to pinch hit. I get that Eaton is banged up, and needed a day off, but he can PH and play the field for an inning. 

Chose to not even watch the bottom of the 10th, knowing full well how it would play out.

Lastly, I will say that LaRussa not knowing that a pitcher does not have to be the runner is inexcusable. BUT, there are a helluva lot of coaches in the dugout and bullpen, and if none of them knew that rule either then that is quite an indictment on the entire staff and the organization that brought them in. It is time for LaRussa to step away, and I think the Hamilton/Garcia/Lamb days need to be over. You keep veterans who can contribute off the bench, not veterans who bring nothing.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

What happened to the good old fashion sieve analysis?

You can't sort by composition using a sieve, only by grain size. Already sieved, now separating minerals.

[pcq]

I think you have to credit the offense.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

27 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If Abreu is running, the throw still goes through to second.

Well that's where we could debate the rule but I don't know it that well and I'm not sure who knows every aspect of it. People are saying Abreu then would've been the runner but is there a rule that says you cannot use a pinch runner in the situation if they make the double switch or even if he doesn't ? Or a different double switch where someone else becomes the runner instead of Hendriks or ABreu ?

Basically what I'm asking is for someone who knows every rule in that situation to set the inning from the beginning and the list the options according to who was left on the bench. Who was supposed to be the runner on second before the inning started  ? Was the pitchers spot due to open the inning in the batting order ? Was a double switch necessary or could whoever made the last out the previous inning be put on second then pinch run for ? Could a different double switch has been made ? If the pitcher's spot was due up then you pinch hit for him while also having used someone to pinch run if that's allowed if you don't make the double switch ? Then you might have to also pinch hit for Hamilton if it gets to that point ? ARe there enough bench players left with all that going on to have all the positions covered if the  Sox fail to score a run ? There was so much going on that I'm not sure anyone here knows all the rules. LaRussa should have known but there is a heckuva lot to dissect .

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[wegner]

I know that the players have to say in public that it is an honor playing for a hall of fame manager, blah, blah, blah.  But at this point are they actually thinking "that is some bullshit there"?

[hi8is]

My opinion... game was lost by:

1.) TLR

2.) Umpires zone

3.) Silent Bats

 

Dang.

[wegner]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

My opinion... game was lost by:

1.) TLR

2.) Umpires zone

3.) Silent Bats

 

Dang.

I would say it was 3, with a hearty assist from 2 and a "what the hell did 1 do, and then admit to in the post game"?

[elrockinMT]

12 minutes ago, Mokena94 said:

Agree 100% with all of these. 

1. Why not double switch Mendick for Madrigal, instead of Lamb for Vaughn.

3. Sounds like LaRussa called for the steal, which is beyond ridiculous. Of course your top closer who probably has not been running bases in a few years, is not going to read that and score on the double steal. If trying to avoid the DP, the IF was playing for the play at home - Hamilton is unlikely to be doubled up - and most of all Hamilton would have to actually make contact with the ball.

5. Hamilton absolutely should not have been allowed to bat in that situation. He is not a major league hitter, no way he could hit a fly ball that would be deep enough to score Hendricks. You have Collins, Mercedes, Mendick, and Eaton available to pinch hit. I get that Eaton is banged up, and needed a day off, but he can PH and play the field for an inning. 

Chose to not even watch the bottom of the 10th, knowing full well how it would play out.

Lastly, I will say that LaRussa not knowing that a pitcher does not have to be the runner is inexcusable. BUT, there are a helluva lot of coaches in the dugout and bullpen, and if none of them knew that rule either then that is quite an indictment on the entire staff and the organization that brought them in. It is time for LaRussa to step away, and I think the Hamilton/Garcia/Lamb days need to be over. You keep veterans who can contribute off the bench, not veterans who bring nothing.

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

I only learned last night that if a guy catches a foul ball and his momentum takes him into the dugout, the baserunners advance....but Benetti immediately knew that rule.  My point is with a Major League ballclub, you better have someone in that dugout that knows the damn rules and will alert the manager of said rules.

[Big Hurtin]

5 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

I didn't either, but then again, I'm not a hall of fame person.

[Mokena94]

5 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

Isn't somebody on the staff responsible for fully knowing and understanding all of the rules? If not, than again I say an indictment on the staff and the organization.

[reiks12]

4 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

We arent baseball managers for a billion dollar franchise

[hi8is]

7 minutes ago, wegner said:

I would say it was 3, with a hearty assist from 2 and a "what the hell did 1 do, and then admit to in the post game"?

Yea - that case could be made but if TLR isn’t playing bonehead we likely scored in the top of the 10th, if the umpire isn’t blind the Red’s might not have, and then finally if the offense had scored even a single run - we’re not even having this discussion.

We see it the same regardless of which glasses we’re wearing.

???‍♂️

[Tony]

8 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I never knew the pitcher didn’t have to run

That's acceptable for you not to know that. 

You also aren't being paid to be the manager of the White Sox. 

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, Mokena94 said:

Isn't somebody on the staff responsible for fully knowing and understanding all of the rules? If not, than again I say an indictment on the staff and the organization.

Should be the bleeping manager.

Welcome to Soxtalk, by the way.

[elrockinMT]

If LaRussa’s moves had paid off would he be a genius?

[elrockinMT]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

That's acceptable for you not to know that. 

You also aren't being paid to be the manager of the White Sox. 

As far as you know LOL 

[Tony]

Just now, elrockinMT said:

If LaRussa’s moves had paid off would he be a genius?

No. He objectively made moves that lacked any sort of "strategy" 

Are you really asking this? Do you just have no understanding of what took place today? When you say "LaRussa's moves" Do you mean having Liam Hendricks run at 2B, because he ADMITTED he didn't know a rule was in place that would allow an actual base runner could be placed in that spot?  

[reiks12]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

No. He objectively made moves that lacked any sort of "strategy" 

Are you really asking this? Do you just have no understanding of what took place today? When you say "LaRussa's moves" Do you mean having Liam Hendricks run at 2B, because he ADMITTED he didn't know a rule was in place that would allow an actual base runner could be placed in that spot?  

or having Leury steal second base to stay out of the double play when the Reds were not aligned defensively for it? HE HAS TO GO

Edited May 5, 2021 by reiks12

[NWINFan]

Didn't see the ending of the game, so I can't comment on that. Saw the early part and recognized what everybody has recognized: That Hamilton and Garcia are not major league players. This offense is already inconsistent enough without those two giving away outs.

Hahn has stated that he doesn't want to make a deal that will derail the rebuilding process. If he continues to sit on his hands, we will get more of this.

Tony LaRussa should never been hired in the first place. Not knowing rules, denying he is sleeping the dugout. This is a manager of a contending team?

If this organization is serious about winning, it needs to look at this game as a signal that something has to be done. Rebuilding can no longer be used as a lame excuse.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, NWINFan said:

Didn't see the ending of the game, so I can't comment on that. Saw the early part and recognized what everybody has recognized: That Hamilton and Garcia are not major league players. This offense is already inconsistent enough without those two giving away outs.

Hahn has stated that he doesn't want to make a deal that will derail the rebuilding process. If he continues to sit on his hands, we will get more of this.

Tony LaRussa should never been hired in the first place. Not knowing rules, denying he is sleeping the dugout. This is a manager of a contending team?

If this organization is serious about winning, it needs to look at this game as a signal that something has to be done. Rebuilding can no longer be used as a lame excuse.

Just remember - it may not be Rick Hahn making personnel decisions anymore.

[wegner]

5 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

If LaRussa’s moves had paid off would he be a genius?

I predict that if Hendriks would have gotten out of the 10th...Billy Hamilton would have been on 2B to start the 11th and would have quickly gotten thrown out trying to steal 3rd.  Bottom of the 11th would have consisted of back to back walks followed by a walkoff catchers interference.

[NWINFan]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Just remember - it may not be Rick Hahn making personnel decisions anymore.

You could be right about that. Regardless, the team looks rudderless right now. In 1997, the white flag was run up at the end of July. Now it seems to be happening at the start of May.