zack collins

[Sleepy Harold]

7 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I’m not sure how this is even controversial. Catchers shouldn’t be taking a knee with runners on base in particular. Note the distinct lack of taking a knee:

 

 

Players aren't running nearly as much on the base paths as they used to. So if they theoretically aren't a threat to run, wouldn't it be more advantageous as a catcher to put yourself in a better position to steal pitches for your pitcher? Bc two HOF C's (I'm guessing Yadi will be in there) caught one particular way doesn't mean that way will work for everyone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Funny how everybody was so hellbent on writing him off as being able to legitimately catch. 

Just like Mercedes. You can't tell me that he couldn't catch once every few weeks . But I'm thinking when the Sox run into a hellish stretch of 42 games in 40 days we might see him a few times.

[Southwest Sider]

Yas could have a > .400 OBP when he starts hitting a bit, and then no one will be complaining anymore.

 

[SoxBlanco]

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

cause he took the catcher job from the most overrated player in Soxtalk history.

Wow, I just looked up McCann's stats this year. Has he been brutal all year?

[wegner]

39 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Funny how everybody was so hellbent on writing him off as being able to legitimately catch. 

Weren't some people also convinced that Moncada couldn't play 3B?

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Wow, I just looked up McCann's stats this year. Has he been brutal all year?

Yeah I think so.  And don’t get me wrong, I really like James McCann and how he handled the staff, but some people here treat him like the second coming.

[SonofaRoache]

11 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Wow, I just looked up McCann's stats this year. Has he been brutal all year?

Mets fans hate him as much as Twins fans hate Colome. I think James also cost them with his defense. 

[SpringfieldFan]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah I think so.  And don’t get me wrong, I really like James McCann and how he handled the staff, but some people here treat him like the second coming.

So I think the key take is that it's not just about who you acquire and when; it's also about who you let go and when.

[South Side Hit Men]

Grandal is a sunk cost at this point, you can't undo what Rick Hahn doneth. Best you can do to salvage the situation is catch Collins with Rodon and Lucas, and hope Grandal can get healthy and manage 1-2 fWAR seasons over the final three seasons.

2020: $5.4M James McCann (1.5 fWAR) vs,  $18.3M Yasmani Grandal (1.7 fWAR)

2021: $0.6M Zach Collins (0.3 fWAR) vs. $18.3M Yasmani Grandal (0.3 fWAR)

[Dick Allen]

So moving forward, everyone agrees Grandal is no more than a .120 hitter. 
 

I don’t understand the love for Collins. I read here lots of times he was a waste, and the first time he shows enough where some team would give anything for him, the Sox need to dump him. Now, after a few good games , he is clearly the catcher of the future.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Dick Allen

["The Kids Can Play"]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

He wasn’t even outplayed last year really. 

McCann outplayed Grandal in most important categories in last year's shortened season.. WAR 1.2 to 0.6, BA .289 to .230, OBP which was suppose to be Grandal's strength, .360 to .351, SLG .536 to .422, OPS .896 to .773 and and 7 HR's in 31 games to 8 HR's in 47 games for Grandal. 

[Sleepy Harold]

Btw, not that this matters at all, but I'm currently watching the Rockies Cardinals game. The Rockies had men on and Yadi was dropping down to a knee to receive the pitch. So it seems that even Yadi utilizes this technique, even with runners being on base. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

7 hours ago, zisk said:

looking like a legit mlb catcher

For sure better than Grandal!

[South Side Hit Men]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So moving forward, everyone agrees Grandal is no more than a .120 hitter. 
 

I don’t understand the love for Collins. I read here lots of times he was a waste, and the first time he shows enough where some team would give anything for him, the Sox need to dump him. Now, after a few good games , he is clearly the catcher of the future.

Not sure why people don't understand Grandal isn't a terrible player, yet at the same time isn't worth the $30M in additional salary these two years over his backups, with two more years to go.

In terms of "catcher of the future", the White Sox should have played Collins in 2019, but Hahn was busy spending $7.3M per season on roid guy Welington Castillo (and then burnt international bonus money having Texas paying his buyout). Then after seeing what McCann could do in 2019 (a solid 80-100 game/season catcher), Hahn went out and gave Grandal the biggest contract in White Sox history. Yes, the money has been spent, on a marginally better catcher than his backups,

Calling for Grandal to catch 60% of games keeps him as a starter, possibly fresh and healthy (how exactly did he hurt himself this offseason?) for his final three years, since nobody is taking on that contract via trade or waivers. People are asking for the backup, Collins, to play a backup role, but to catch the two pitchers he is best suited (and Grandal worst suited) to catch. it's the best path moving forward.

[greg775]

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So moving forward, everyone agrees Grandal is no more than a .120 hitter. 
 

I don’t understand the love for Collins. I read here lots of times he was a waste, and the first time he shows enough where some team would give anything for him, the Sox need to dump him. Now, after a few good games , he is clearly the catcher of the future.

When are we gonna blame the hitting coach? Who is the hitting coach?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

So moving forward, everyone agrees Grandal is no more than a .120 hitter. 
 

I don’t understand the love for Collins. I read here lots of times he was a waste, and the first time he shows enough where some team would give anything for him, the Sox need to dump him. Now, after a few good games , he is clearly the catcher of the future.

Lot's of different people post here. Not surprising you can find a multitude of opinions on every player based on current results. Message boards and twitter don't work real well with baseball because of small sample sizes. It's a game of patience . Abreu is showing his age, Eaton now sucks after being a good free agent acquisition at the beginning , the bullpen was awesome based on last years result and now it sucks. People talking about giving Rodon a qualifying offer after 30 games or what it will cost to resign him. We get way ahead of ourselves way too often. We'd have nothing to post about if we all waited for the final analysis.

Edited May 8, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, greg775 said:

When are we gonna blame the hitting coach? Who is the hitting coach?

Frank Menechino

[zisk]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Lot's of different people post here. Not surprising you can find a multitude of opinions on every player based on current results. Message boards and twitter don't work real well with baseball because of small sample sizes. It's a game of patience . Abreu is showing his age, Eaton now sucks after being a good free agent acquisition at the beginning , the bullpen was awesome based on last years result and now it sucks. We'd have nothing to post about if we all waited for the final analysis.

we could still talk about our love for the Gary Redus era uniforms

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, zisk said:

we could still talk about our love for the Gary Redus era uniforms

There have been so many bad ballplayers in the big leagues through the years. It's such an unforgiving sport. Now with the shifts even harder to have that ball drop safely on the green grass instead of in somebody's mitt.

[chitownsportsfan]

Grandal and his .363 OBP is actually good for a 100 wRC+ which yea, offense is down but not making outs helps too.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not sure why people don't understand Grandal isn't a terrible player, yet at the same time isn't worth the $30M in additional salary these two years over his backups, with two more years to go.

In terms of "catcher of the future", the White Sox should have played Collins in 2019, but Hahn was busy spending $7.3M per season on roid guy Welington Castillo (and then burnt international bonus money having Texas paying his buyout). Then after seeing what McCann could do in 2019 (a solid 80-100 game/season catcher), Hahn went out and gave Grandal the biggest contract in White Sox history. Yes, the money has been spent, on a marginally better catcher than his backups,

Calling for Grandal to catch 60% of games keeps him as a starter, possibly fresh and healthy (how exactly did he hurt himself this offseason?) for his final three years, since nobody is taking on that contract via trade or waivers. People are asking for the backup, Collins, to play a backup role, but to catch the two pitchers he is best suited (and Grandal worst suited) to catch. it's the best path moving forward.

I would generally agree that catchers age poorly because of the demands of the position,but still talking about signing Grandal over McCann hasn't made sense and it still doesn't make sense. I can see an argument for 2 catchers who don't make much money who provide good work with pitchers since that's an often overlooked part of the job.

But preparing to come out of the rebuild the Sox had certain needs like LH power and OBP. Grandal had both those things. He was actually an ideal fit because A.) he had a track record of being that type of player and B.) McCann had 1 one year of being who he was for the Sox and C. )Because of the 2 good years McCann had was always going to test free agency. Could the Sox have tried to extend him based on the 1st year ? Sure, if they really thought he was going to be special moving forward but that still didn't solve finding a LH power hitter who also provided OBP.

Today the Sox are now among the leaders in OBP  and I'd like to think that's because the Sox placed greater emphasis on it when they signed Grandal. It's no coincidence that the Sox are last in HR's but still are among the leaders in run differential and still considered one of the better offensive teams mostly accomplished without Eloy. It has a lot to do with OBP we are getting from guys who have more professional AB's now like Grandal, Moncada, Collins, Vaughn, Madrigal, Mercedes Anderson all guys who have either a high BA or have a good eye or some combination of both.

Edited May 8, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[SpringfieldFan]

The irony is that their is so much criticism for JR not opening the pocketbook and when he does (Grandal) he gets raked for it. Guess big money is not necessarily smart money.

BTW does anyone else have as miserable a time as me navigating thru the forum on a phone with all the ads and all? Half the time I can't even find the reply button. /rantoff

Edited May 8, 2021 by SpringfieldFan

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

The irony is that their is so much criticism for JR not opening the pocketbook and when he does (Grandal) he gets raked for it. Guess big money is not necessarily smart money.

BTW does anyone else have as miserable a time as me navigating thru the forum on a phone with all the ads and all? Half the time I can't even find the reply button. /rantoff

Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I went back to using chrome for a minute and got an ad on here about having an itchy ass and the proper way to wipe. Went right back to use Opera as my browser because of ads...

Edited May 8, 2021 by ron883

[Vulture]

3 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Players aren't running nearly as much on the base paths as they used to. So if they theoretically aren't a threat to run, wouldn't it be more advantageous as a catcher to put yourself in a better position to steal pitches for your pitcher? Bc two HOF C's (I'm guessing Yadi will be in there) caught one particular way doesn't mean that way will work for everyone.

Throwing isn’t the only thing a catcher needs to be mobile for; preventing passed balls and wild pitches and fielding your position, for example. Seems a little more important than trying to trick an ump but maybe I’m old fashioned

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, SpringfieldFan said:

BTW does anyone else have as miserable a time as me navigating thru the forum on a phone with all the ads and all? Half the time I can't even find the reply button. /rantoff

Yes, and as a result I rarely post in the evening and am usually on during the day when I'm on my laptop.