Sox Veteran Pitching Depth Targets

[YourWhatHurts]

I do think the Sox need to make a move to add a quality depth SP who can also work out of the front of the bullpen.  Also maybe another RP.

 I would actually be in favor of an occasional 6 man rotation during long stretches without offdays with someone other than Kopech in it just to keep the innings down overall and prep these guys for the playoffs.  We will definitely be playing baseball in October this year IMO and I would like to keep these guys fresh.

IIRC Rodon has been working on extra rest and Giolito has at least tolerated it.  Lynn and Keuchel are probably fine on extra rest.

I am thinking something along the lines of Mike Minor or Jakob Junis would be a good addition to the team in that they probably cost a Sheets-quality player or less.  Just get a guy who can make a handful of spot starts instead of relying on Stiever or Lambert and instead of pushing Kopech or Crochet too much, and otherwise put him in a bullpen mop up role.

There are probably lots of options out there but ideally I would like a cheap acquisition talent wise from an obvious seller who will throw strikes and make you swing the bat to beat him.  And then if there is another RP out there who is of a similar mold maybe we can do that also.

Foster has options and can go down. Fry, Kade McClure, Sheets, Adolfo, Luis Gonzalez, etc. are the kinds of players you can easily move in a deal like this IMO.  

[YourWhatHurts]

Adam Plutko is an option probably.  He was acquired for literally nothing by the O's and is having a nice start.  Plus he knows the division.  They also have Harvey but he would probably cost more and would want to start regularly.

I wonder if the O's would do Sheets for Plutko, or Adolfo and Dopico for Plutko, or McClure for Plutko right now for example?

[caulfield12]

They will wait until at least early June for a move like this...and they’ll want a pitcher who will be under control for next year due to the uncertainty with Rodon and Lynn.

Duffy is going to be a big name the Royals will try to max out a return on, not sure they trade him to a divisional rival without a surcharge, though.

Sonny Gray of the Reds would be another.

Edited May 12, 2021 by caulfield12

[YourWhatHurts]

Generally I would agree that a seller would wait until later but if we are talking about obvious planned sellers and players with very limited upside going out, over whom returns are unlikely to require much haggling, a deal could come together fairly quickly if there's some motivation on both sides.

I mean, some of these players are never under any circumstances going to bring back a blue chipper, not even a potential blue chipper who is in the AZL or something.  When we were selling we probably already knew that a Medeiros-type crestfallen prospect was the best kind of return we could get out of Soria and that a Cordell-level player was the best kind of return we could get out of a Swarzak type of player.  I don't mind "giving up max value" early if we are just giving up these kinds of players.

Another very often overlooked element which makes early deals for sellers smart is the value of the time you have to "see what you have" in a player.  For example, for a rebuilding team, the Sox could send out a player like Lopez and the other team could start working with him immediately to get a longer view of him to see if it's worth trying to negotiate a deal or tender him a contract in arb after the year.  Also someone like Luis Gonzalez, Sheets, McClure could get MLB time immediately and still be optioned back down.

I would believe there is an ability for the Sox to make a small depth deal early with someone of they want to.  And again when it is a lesser caliber of outgoing player I don't mind paying max value.

Edited May 12, 2021 by YourWhatHurts

[wegner]

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They will wait until at least early June for a move like this...and they’ll want a pitcher who will be under control for next year due to the uncertainty with Rodon and Lynn.

Duffy is going to be a big name the Royals will try to max out a return on, not sure they trade him to a divisional rival without a surcharge, though.

Sonny Gray of the Reds would be another.

Has anyone we've acquired from the Royals ever worked out?  I can't think of one.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, wegner said:

Has anyone we've acquired from the Royals ever worked out?  I can't think of one.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-most-recent-trade-every-mlb-team
 

Soria did pretty well for us, considering diminished expectations.

Also, Kyle Davies on the Cubs would be another.  Yankees probably won’t trade anyone with Sox even when Severino returns.

Personally, would like to see first what, if anything, Katz can do with Reynaldo Lopez...what’s to lose?  Seems there might be some cushion for experimenting with him out of the big league pen as well.

Edited May 12, 2021 by caulfield12

["The Kids Can Play"]

44 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I do think the Sox need to make a move to add a quality depth SP who can also work out of the front of the bullpen.  Also maybe another RP.

 I would actually be in favor of an occasional 6 man rotation during long stretches without offdays with someone other than Kopech in it just to keep the innings down overall and prep these guys for the playoffs.  We will definitely be playing baseball in October this year IMO and I would like to keep these guys fresh.

IIRC Rodon has been working on extra rest and Giolito has at least tolerated it.  Lynn and Keuchel are probably fine on extra rest.

I am thinking something along the lines of Mike Minor or Jakob Junis would be a good addition to the team in that they probably cost a Sheets-quality player or less.  Just get a guy who can make a handful of spot starts instead of relying on Stiever or Lambert and instead of pushing Kopech or Crochet too much, and otherwise put him in a bullpen mop up role.

There are probably lots of options out there but ideally I would like a cheap acquisition talent wise from an obvious seller who will throw strikes and make you swing the bat to beat him.  And then if there is another RP out there who is of a similar mold maybe we can do that also.

Foster has options and can go down. Fry, Kade McClure, Sheets, Adolfo, Luis Gonzalez, etc. are the kinds of players you can easily move in a deal like this IMO.  

Actually if Kopech moves full time into the rotation we are probably one of the few teams in MLB who could go with a 6 man rotation. I like the idea of a 6 man because then if you need to push the starters some innings on starts, they will be fine with the extra day pitching every 6th vs 5th day. 

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-most-recent-trade-every-mlb-team
 

Soria did pretty well for us, considering diminished expectations.

Also, Kyle Davies on the Cubs would be another.  Yankees probably won’t trade anyone with Sox even when Severino returns.

Soria did do much better than I expected...I guess the memories of those like Teahan and McDougal outweigh any successes in my mind.

Of everyone you mentioned, I would probably see what it would cost to get Gray.

[caulfield12]

Where the heck do the Indians find all their pitching, by the way?  Hentges is dealing so far against the Cubs through 4.

Edited May 12, 2021 by caulfield12

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Where the heck do the Indians find all their pitching, by the way?  Hentges is dealing so far against the Cubs through 4.

I wouldn't classify 4 hits and 3 walks through 4 as "dealing" but the Cubs have choked with RISP to keep the score at zero.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Soria did do much better than I expected...I guess the memories of those like Teahan and McDougal outweigh any successes in my mind.

Of everyone you mentioned, I would probably see what it would cost to get Gray.

Jonathan Gray of Colorado or even fixing Marquez?

Luis Castillo is pitching like complete garbage but is a Top 5 Cy guy when on.   Someone like that...Contreras potential unrealized.

Going to cost more in prospect capital, though.  Burger keeps plauping like this, though?

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I wouldn't classify 4 hits and 3 walks through 4 as "dealing" but the Cubs have choked with RISP to keep the score at zero.

Well, he’s a heckuva lot better than Logan Allen...looking like at least five scoreless.

Edited May 12, 2021 by caulfield12

[wegner]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-most-recent-trade-every-mlb-team
 

Soria did pretty well for us, considering diminished expectations.

Also, Kyle Davies on the Cubs would be another.  Yankees probably won’t trade anyone with Sox even when Severino returns.

Personally, would like to see first what, if anything, Katz can do with Reynaldo Lopez...what’s to lose?  Seems there might be some cushion for experimenting with him out of the big league pen as well.

I was listening to Fred Heubner a couple of weekends ago and he said he went to watch a game at the alternate site between the Sox and Cubs and Lopez no hit them for 5 innings.  Maybe Katz and the staff can unleash that Lopez potential...one hell of a game changer if they are able to do that.

[TomPickle]

Reynaldo Lopez is making his first start of the year in AAA tonight. Given what they have gotten from the starters and Kopech this year he seems like a pretty good #7 starter to me. Not that I would be against adding another arm capable of throwing 5+ innings in a major league game.

[YourWhatHurts]

5 minutes ago, wegner said:

I was listening to Fred Heubner a couple of weekends ago and he said he went to watch a game at the alternate site between the Sox and Cubs and Lopez no hit them for 5 innings.  Maybe Katz and the staff can unleash that Lopez potential...one hell of a game changer if they are able to do that.

We have all seen the flashes but the clock is ticking on his eventual nontender by us.  And at this point I am not sure how you believe in him.  But yeah if he is making progress in AAA maybe you can wait a little bit longer but still we have all seen that movie before too.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

We have all seen the flashes but the clock is ticking on his eventual nontender by us.  And at this point I am not sure how you believe in him.  But yeah if he is making progress in AAA maybe you can wait a little bit longer but still we have all seen that movie before too.

See Rodon and Cease...and Gio sliding a bit the other direction.  Anything is possible.  Burger could be a AAA All-Star.

Also, Harvey got beaten up by the Mets today...and Casey Mize faces Duffy of the 1.26 ERA with a nine game losing streak on the line for KC.

Other Gray going for Rockies, too.

Edited May 12, 2021 by caulfield12

[YourWhatHurts]

I actually really like the idea of Adam Plutko.  I hope the Sox will consider that.

As a serious contender we are probably going to be much better off at this point looking at low-impact quality veteran spot patches in certain places than attempting to plug in "fix-'er-upper" types in need areas and hoping to strike gold.  We will probably just end up losing games that way.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I actually really like the idea of Adam Plutko.  I hope the Sox will consider that.

As a serious contender we are probably going to be much better off at this point looking at low-impact quality veteran spot patches in certain places than attempting to plug in "fix-'er-upper" types in need areas and hoping to strike gold.  We will probably just end up losing games that way.

Or end up with a Jose Contreras run where he was the best pitcher in baseball from late 2005 through May, 2006.

Talent, talent, talent...

[YourWhatHurts]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

See Rodon and Cease...and Gio sliding a bit the other direction.  Anything is possible.  Burger could be a AAA All-Star.

Cease was never on anything but an upward trajectory derailed by COVID. He was supposed to get innings last year and his first full season but it was taken from him.  

Rodon is just now turning into who we thought he was.  But I never thought he was a head case.

Burger had 2 major injuries.

Lopez was going up then he crashed all the way to AAA.  He's also a head case.  Lopez really isn't anything like these other players IMO.  He's more like Carson Fulmer than these other players.   And the reason to let him go is that he is a nontender candidate on his last option year who needs to still "work it out on the field" for a team trying to win a pennant. 

Maybe he turns into the Orioles Jake Arrietta but probably not. 

[Springfield Soxfan]

Need some RHP relief help.  Marshall, Foster, and Heuer (least of three) have struggled. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

39 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

Reynaldo Lopez is making his first start of the year in AAA tonight. Given what they have gotten from the starters and Kopech this year he seems like a pretty good #7 starter to me. Not that I would be against adding another arm capable of throwing 5+ innings in a major league game.

I am pulling for Lopez to be good again. It would be awesome if he made it back and became a successful pitcher. I am doubtful, but maybe he can be a reliever. We also must remember that Lopez was a big part of the early rebuild moves. Hahn dealt Adam Eaton to Washington for Giolito, Lopez and Dunning. Dunning is gone, but he helped secure getting Lynn and Giolito hopefully will get his game back. Having Lopez be productive again, only makes that Eaton trade that much more powerful. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

7 minutes ago, Springfield Soxfan said:

Need some RHP relief help.  Marshall, Foster, and Heuer (least of three) have struggled. 

We do! Marshall sucks and needs to be sent down. I think Heuer will be ok and Foster's last few outings have been good. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Springfield Soxfan said:

Need some RHP relief help.  Marshall, Foster, and Heuer (least of three) have struggled. 

Heuer Tagged.  Watch endorsement denied so far.

[Dominikk85]

I said they need someone before the season but with rodon and cease emerging and kopech coming back I don't see them needing a starter this year unless there is an injury. 

Gio, Lynn, cease, rodon, keuchel and kopech should be enough to get through the season. 

And if someone gets hurt they still can make a trade

[ChiSoxJon]

6 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I said they need someone before the season but with rodon and cease emerging and kopech coming back I don't see them needing a starter this year unless there is an injury. 

Gio, Lynn, cease, rodon, keuchel and kopech should be enough to get through the season. 

And if someone gets hurt they still can make a trade

Lambert, Stiever, Lopez isn't the worst internal depth either