"What are we even doing here"? Players raise concerns about foreign substances

[chitownsportsfan]

Pretty crazy article, with Sox' hitting coach Menechino quoted. Here are some excerpts, it's paywalled.

Quote

 

“It is getting out of hand,” said an American League pitcher, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “When you watch some of these guys from the dugout you can almost hear the ball ripping out of their hands. Guys are doing stuff now that you can’t do to a baseball with just your hand. You just can’t.”

 

The blatant examples are the ones that bother baseball people most.

“I’ve seen three or four cases this year where I’m like, ‘Are you s——- me?’” said Menechino, the hitting coach for the second-highest scoring team in the majors. “If MLB is watching this, how are they missing this one?”

The league, before it acts on any violations, first wants to understand the depth of the problem, MLB officials said. In his March 23 memo, MLB senior vice president of on-field operations Michael Hill informed clubs that the league would inspect and document balls taken out of play this season and conduct spin-rate analysis on pitchers who are suspected of using foreign substances.

The memo stated that players are subject to discipline “regardless of whether evidence of the violation has been discovered during or following a game.” But the league, knowing any suspension would be subject to challenge from the union, wants to gather as much evidence as possible to build potential cases against pitchers it suspects of using illegal substances.

“The Central office data collection is ongoing,” an MLB official said.

A long-term solution would be to develop a tackier ball that produces adequate grip, in theory eliminating the need for pitchers to use foreign substances. The league took partial control of the baseball manufacturing process when it partnered in 2018 with a private equity firm co-founded by Padres owner Peter Seidler to purchase its longtime baseball and helmet supplier, the Rawlings Sporting Goods Company. A new ball, however, likely would take years to test and develop.

Meanwhile, another season might elapse before MLB adopts meaningful change in enforcement.

“So, what, we’re taking a pause on this? We’re going to not enforce the rules for a year?” the NL pitcher asked. “What about guys trying to get paid? What about guys fighting for jobs?

“You have hitters who are like, ‘How the f— are we supposed to hit this?’ For big-league hitters to admit defeat is rare. But when you have a guy throwing a fastball that rises 4 feet or a slider that looks like a strike and drops off another foot, it’s like video game stuff. You think (hitters) are just complaining, but then you look at the video and it’s like, holy s—, how are they supposed to hit this? I don’t care what your approach is at the plate, you don’t have a chance.”

 

 

[CentralChamps21]

I hope Menechino checked to make sure none of his own team's pitchers are doing it before complaining about others.

[Southwest Sider]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I hope Menechino checked to make sure none of his own team's pitchers are doing it before complaining about others.

Seriously. Our pitching has been really good this year. I'd like to assume that they could just be good pitchers, but if this is such a rampant issue.... and with TLR at the helm... who knows?

Edited May 21, 2021 by South Sider

[chw42]

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I hope Menechino checked to make sure none of his own team's pitchers are doing it before complaining about others.

I'm pretty sure Lynn uses something. You can see it on the right side of his pants whenever he pitches. Plus he's meticulous about going to his glove, then his hat, then wiping it off on the side of his pants. 

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I'm pretty sure Lynn uses something. You can see it on the right side of his pants whenever he pitches. Plus he's meticulous about going to his glove, then his hat, then wiping it off on the side of his pants. 

Quite interesting in light of this article today.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/pitcher-zstats-at-the-quarter-mark/

Lynn is a big over performer of Dan's zFIP, which is some sort of statcast based FIP, above my paygrade.

[southsider2k5]

I have been following these stories since Trever Bauer brought this up, and then all of the sudden his spin rates went nuts.  If they really want it to stop, they need some sacrificial lambs.  When MLB started taking baseball's I figured it was coming, but nothing has happened yet so we wait and see.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Pretty crazy article, with Sox' hitting coach Menechino quoted. Here are some excerpts, it's paywalled.

 

This article and the rest of the people out there really don't have a solution. Most are proposing that they should have a stickier ball or allow a certain substance that way the pitchers won't use anything else. This is BS. There are always pitchers who will try to add more. There needs to be consequences for not following the rules or the "accepted" amount of substances.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

I'm pretty sure Lynn uses something. You can see it on the right side of his pants whenever he pitches. Plus he's meticulous about going to his glove, then his hat, then wiping it off on the side of his pants. 

Nearly all of them do. It's like the amphetamines until they started testing for them. If they want it to stop, they need to suspend people.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I hope Menechino checked to make sure none of his own team's pitchers are doing it before complaining about others.

He's talking about the ones that really abuse it. You can bet that at a minimum 50% of the Sox staff uses something.

[chitownsportsfan]

@ptatc and @southsider2k5 you guys are right.  There needs to be a sacrifical lamb or two and some actual consequences.  This is some more "unwritten rules" crap IMO.  Can't snitch, if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin', all that crap.

[joejoesox]

2 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I hope Menechino checked to make sure none of his own team's pitchers are doing it before complaining about others.

in Cease's 2nd or 3rd to last start, I think I read somebody say in a game thread that his spin rate was WAY up, anybody remember that? 

[Kyyle23]

How about they look at Karinchaks glove first 

[mmmmmbeeer]

Liam very often goes to the MLB logo on the back of his cap with his index and middle fingers and then rubs them against his thumb.  Maybe just a habit or superstition but he does it often enough that it sure looks like he's using some sort of substance.

[Ducksnort]

28 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Liam very often goes to the MLB logo on the back of his cap with his index and middle fingers and then rubs them against his thumb.  Maybe just a habit or superstition but he does it often enough that it sure looks like he's using some sort of substance.

Right. Until something is proven, it's all speculation.

[MiddleCoastBias]

These stories are weird because on the one hand you get some that are "how the hell can we hit that?? That's cheating!", and then on the other hand you get "I'd prefer they use something to be able to control their pitches rather than throw 102 mph and not know where it's going".

I don't know what the regulation looks like but it sounds like most people agree pitchers need *something* to help them control the ball, but also *not too much* that they're getting wiffle ball movement.

The obvious course of action would be produce a better ball and enforce a ban on substances, but MLB will find a way to cock that up too.

[maxjusttyped]

2 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

in Cease's 2nd or 3rd to last start, I think I read somebody say in a game thread that his spin rate was WAY up, anybody remember that? 

Driveline baseball is at the forefront of pitcher development and all of their studies have concluded it's impossible to naturally increase the spin rate on your pitches.

[maxjusttyped]

2 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Liam very often goes to the MLB logo on the back of his cap with his index and middle fingers and then rubs them against his thumb.  Maybe just a habit or superstition but he does it often enough that it sure looks like he's using some sort of substance.

Giolito's hat from Wednesday was clearly covered in something. Lynn wipes his hand down the side of his pants after every pitch. If you pay close enough attention to any pitcher, odds are you'll see them doing something that's suspicious, at the very least.