How To Fix the Pen

[Lillian]

I thought that perhaps this topic needed its own thread. What was considered to be a major strength of this roster, has turned out to be a bit of a problem. Kopech, Crochet and Hendriks have been fine, but the rest of the pen has been very inconsistent. Fry has already begun his rehab assignment at Charlotte and Kopech should be back soon. Bummer has such great stuff that it seems reasonable to expect him to get back on track. Nevertheless, the Sox probably need to add one more arm. If not, they may have to forget about trying to get Kopech stretched out, in order to be available to start, later in the season. Fortunately, the starters have been good enough that Kopech may not be needed. He may provide more value to this team, as a reliever. Could Burdi and, or Burr help? If there are any arms that might be acquired, in a trade deadline move, please suggest them in this thread. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I think answer will ultimately be Raisel Iglesias, but we’ll have to wait for the Angels to sell.  Right now they are six games out of a wild card spot and are 4th place in their division.  I think they’ll eventually become sellers and Iglesias is worth the wait IMO.

[soxfan49]

Burdi sucks. He's not the answer

Marshall, Heuer, Ruiz and Foster are also not good. No bullpen is perfect but half of your relievers being awful is difficult to fix. They need at least 2 arms though

[southsider2k5]

The pen is fine for the most part, they just need to pitch like it.  There are some electric arms out there.  They just need to get through whatever is going on. The worst thing they can go is overreact to SSS and trade real talent for relievers.

[Lillian]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think answer will ultimately be Raisel Iglesias, but we’ll have to wait for the Angels to sell.  Right now they are six games out of a wild card spot and are 4th place in their division.  I think they’ll eventually become sellers and Iglesias is worth the wait IMO.

I love that suggestion. Iglesias will be a free agent, at the end of the season. What do you think it would take to acquire him, at the trade deadline?

[Jerksticks]

Heuer needs to fix himself.  He’s nails

[KrankinSox]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The pen is fine for the most part, they just need to pitch like it.  There are some electric arms out there.  They just need to get through whatever is going on. The worst thing they can go is overreact to SSS and trade real talent for relievers.

Disagree. Bullpens are fickle year-to-year. Guys can be great one year, bad the next.

I think adding a couple arms at the deadline is a must for this team. 

Hendriks and Kopech are studs. Crochet is pretty reliable right now but not a sure thing. Bummer and Heuer I still have hope for. The rest are replaceable in my opinion.

If you can add one elite arm and another solid guy to that mix, you're in good shape. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by KrankinSox

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I love that suggestion. Iglesias will be a free agent, at the end of the season. What do you think it would take to acquire him, at the trade deadline?

Depends on what the reliever trade market looks like and how many sellers there are, but I don’t anticipate him costing a top 100 prospect or anything of that nature given he’s a pure rental.  I previously threw out the idea of Lambert & Tyler Johnson, two top 20 org prospects that should help the Angels in the next year or so.  I really like both of those arms, even if Johnson is struggling, but Iglesias is a near perfect fit and someone we’d have a solid chance of extending after the season IMO.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

Disagree. Bullpens are fickle year-to-year. Guys can be great one year, bad the next.

I think adding a couple arms at the deadline is a must for this team. 

Hendriks and Kopech are studs. Crochet is pretty reliable right now but not a sure thing. Bummer and Heuer I still have hope for. The rest are replaceable in my opinion.

If you can add one elite arm and another solid guy to that mix, you're in good shape. 

Which is exactly why I am not giving up real talent for a guy who could suck the next day.

[KrankinSox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is exactly why I am not giving up real talent for a guy who could suck the next day.

Going into the playoffs with our current pen would be a massive mistake, in my opinion.

I think adding an arm, or 2, is a must. Trading for a pen arm on an expiring contract is typically not too steep of a price to pay.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

Going into the playoffs with our current pen would be a massive mistake, in my opinion.

I think adding an arm, or 2, is a must. Trading for a pen arm on an expiring contract is typically not too steep of a price to pay.

Giving away future pieces for a volatile piece is always a bad idea.

[MackowiakYakYak]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is exactly why I am not giving up real talent for a guy who could suck the next day.

The point is that relievers have good years and bad years not necessarily extreme volatility within a season. (Although one or two bad outtings can make an ERA look awful) If you trade for a guy that has good feel for his pitches that year and his underlying stats look good then it’s not as volatile

[southsider2k5]

In addition to normal changes, we also have the sticky crackdown about to happen, so we really are going to see guys collapse mid season.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Marshall needs to go.  Not sure if he has any options left but he needs to be off of this roster.  Tony thinks he's a high leverage guy despite him blowing holds left and right.  No one should see the 7th, 8th, or 9th innings with a lead other than Crochet, Bummer, Kopech, Hendricks, and Heuer.  If we can find another late inning RP before the deadline, I think it'd be a very sound investment.  

[Lillian]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

In addition to normal changes, we also have the sticky crackdown about to happen, so we really are going to see guys collapse mid season.

That's right. Good point. Who knows who and how this crackdown will have an effect?

Edited June 5, 2021 by Lillian

[Heads22]

bring daniel hudson home

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

In addition to normal changes, we also have the sticky crackdown about to happen, so we really are going to see guys collapse mid season.

What is this sticky crackdown?

[caulfield12]

Definitely NOT more sacrifice bunting to keep games (especially at home) closer than they need to be.

[South Side Hit Men]

Firing La Russa and replacing him with a manager physically and mentally residing in the 21st century, would be a good start.

Someone who incorporates modern bullpen decision making, such as using your best relievers in high leverage situations, over brain dead push button automatic assigned innings would be a good start. A manager more concerned with winning a ballgame as opposed to getting his buddy a save opportunity.

Someone like A. J. Hinch, or a couple dozen other examples.

[ShoeLessRob]

7 hours ago, Heads22 said:

bring daniel hudson home

Seems like a great fit. I always liked him.

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Seems like a great fit. I always liked him.

Cooper didn't see eye to eye with him...fwiw.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/5/2021 at 11:47 AM, kitekrazy said:

What is this sticky crackdown?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/major-league-baseball-to-crack-down-on-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances.html

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover

Edited June 7, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[VAfan]

We're in early June. 

Yes, several members of the bullpen have had issues. But that doesn't mean they will continue to have issues for the rest of the year. 

Cody Heuer, Matt Foster, Garrett Crochet, and Michael Kopech are all rookies with less than a year of service time. 

Evan Marshall, who's 31, had a great 2020 season. and pitched reasonably well in 2019.  

Bummer has been wild at times, but when he controls his slider, can be unhittable. 

Hendriks has had a few outings where he could have been better, but seems to be in stride now. 

All of those guys could look better in September than they do now.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, VAfan said:

We're in early June. 

Yes, several members of the bullpen have had issues. But that doesn't mean they will continue to have issues for the rest of the year. 

Cody Heuer, Matt Foster, Garrett Crochet, and Michael Kopech are all rookies with less than a year of service time. 

Evan Marshall, who's 31, had a great 2020 season. and pitched reasonably well in 2019.  

Bummer has been wild at times, but when he controls his slider, can be unhittable. 

Hendriks has had a few outings where he could have been better, but seems to be in stride now. 

All of those guys could look better in September than they do now.  

But the point is when you have 3 relievers with ERA's in the 6+ category you have to decide by the trade deadline if you need BP help for the off season and to that I'd have to say definitely yes.

[beautox]

I think the white sox will just continue with what they have up till the deadline and if they're looking for an arm it'll be below retail. With their current position they have the luxury of time as they move to the deadline. Looking at the remainder of this year and going into next I imagine this is what the bullpen looks like

CL	Hendriks (32)	Hendriks (33)
SU	Bummer* (27)	Bummer* (28)
SU	Heuer (24)	Heuer (25)
MR	Fry* (27)	Fry* (28)
MR	Foster (26)	Foster (27)
MR	Ruiz (26)	Ruiz (27)
RP	Crochet* (22)	Burr (28)
LR	Kopech (25)	Crochet* (23)

 

With Burr, Marshall, Cordero, Burdi, Lambert, and Pilkington all looking to break in the near future.

Having said all that they need to begin to move Sheets, Burger, possibly Stiever, Lopez, Johnson, possibly Burdi, Adolfo, and Rutherford to clear space on the 40 man and garner some type return; even if its lotto tickets with one tool down in A ball.

If the future outfield is going to be Eloy, Robert, and Vaughn with Eloy the first to eventually be moved, then Adolfo and Rutherford serve as nothing more than depth buried behind former major leaguers and 5/6th outfielder types like Gonzalez.