caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung obviously not the only predictive tool, but interesting nonetheless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I think Cole has to be #1 if you look at anything beyond ERA. Even just looking at ERA, Cole has been remarkable. I'm surprised ESPN has it so backwards. The "VB" thing is hilariously stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Lol, Hendriks #2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Sox have had 3 Cy winners in their history. Last one in 1993 with McDowell, 1 year before I was born. Never have seen one in my lifetime. Kind of amazing considering how good the Sox pitching was in the 2000s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said: Sox have had 3 Cy winners in their history. Last one in 1993 with McDowell, 1 year before I was born. Never have seen one in my lifetime. Kind of amazing considering how good the Sox pitching was in the 2000s. I'm old. ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said: Sox have had 3 Cy winners in their history. Last one in 1993 with McDowell, 1 year before I was born. Never have seen one in my lifetime. Kind of amazing considering how good the Sox pitching was in the 2000s. Sale could've won many. Just always had 1-2 better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: I'm old. ? I feel like I'm getting there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrankinSox Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Sale could've won many. Just always had 1-2 better. Sale has finished top 6 in Cy voting 7 times, but never won the award. A fact that I learned like 2 years ago that blew mind: Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young award. I was born in 91 so I wasn't old enough to remember his career. I had just assumed he won like 4 or 5 Cy Youngs. In his 27 seasons, he only finished top 5 in Cy voting 6 times. Edited June 8, 2021 by KrankinSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 36 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said: Sox have had 3 Cy winners in their history. Last one in 1993 with McDowell, 1 year before I was born. Never have seen one in my lifetime. Kind of amazing considering how good the Sox pitching was in the 2000s. Loaiza was close in 2003...of course, Sale got votes, Buehrle, Thigpen the year he broke the saves record, Wilson Alvarez, Contreras the best pitcher in MLB for four months stretching across 2005-06, Quintana was really solid but never had the K numbers. “A World Series Champion in 1906, Ed Walsh put up numbers that look downright silly considering how much the game has changed since his time. He had five seasons with 20+ victories, including 40, yes 40 in 1908. Walsh holds the record for career ERA with 1.82. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1946.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, KrankinSox said: Sale has finished top 6 in Cy voting 7 times, but never won the award. A fact that I learned like 2 years ago that blew mind: Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young award. I was born in 91 so I wasn't old enough to remember his career. I had just assumed he won like 4 or 5 Cy Youngs. In his 27 seasons, he only finished top 5 in Cy voting 6 times. Nolan Ryan played for a lot of shitty teams over the years, primarily the Angels and Rangers. In 1973, Nolan finished with a 7.7 bWAR season. He also finished with a 21-16 record and 383 Ks and 26 complete games over 323 innings. Bert Byleven had an even better season (9.8 bWAR) with nine shutouts, 25 complete games. He also finished with a 20-17 record and received a messily single third place Cy Young vote. Jim Palmer had a very good season. 296 innings, 19 complete games, 158 Ks. However, his greatest asset was pitching for Earl Weaver’s team. He finished 20-7, and won the Cy Young as a result, and finished second in MVP with 172 points. Nolan Ryan finished with 20 points. Voters were stupid back then. Very, very stupid. Speaking of stupid. 1 hour ago, daggins said: I think Cole has to be #1 if you look at anything beyond ERA. Even just looking at ERA, Cole has been remarkable. I'm surprised ESPN has it so backwards. The "VB" thing is hilariously stupid. Don’t be surprised of anything stupid and backwards coming out of the four letter network. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, KrankinSox said: Sale has finished top 6 in Cy voting 7 times, but never won the award. A fact that I learned like 2 years ago that blew mind: Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young award. I was born in 91 so I wasn't old enough to remember his career. I had just assumed he won like 4 or 5 Cy Youngs. In his 27 seasons, he only finished top 5 in Cy voting 6 times. Nolan Ryan was never the best pitcher. He struck out a lot of guys but also walked a lot. He was maybe the best thrower but never the best pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Yusmeiro Petit at five? I think that system has some kinks that need worked out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, ptatc said: Nolan Ryan was never the best pitcher. He struck out a lot of guys but also walked a lot. He was maybe the best thrower but never the best pitcher. It really took him until his 30s to really learn how to pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runtheballdown Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Loaiza was close in 2003...of course, Sale got votes, Buehrle, Thigpen the year he broke the saves record, Wilson Alvarez, Contreras the best pitcher in MLB for four months stretching across 2005-06, Quintana was really solid but never had the K numbers. “A World Series Champion in 1906, Ed Walsh put up numbers that look downright silly considering how much the game has changed since his time. He had five seasons with 20+ victories, including 40, yes 40 in 1908. Walsh holds the record for career ERA with 1.82. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1946.” That didn’t call him Big Ed for nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, ptatc said: Nolan Ryan was never the best pitcher. He struck out a lot of guys but also walked a lot. He was maybe the best thrower but never the best pitcher. Your right with Ryan you always got a competitor but you didn’t know which Ryan would show up. The three best I have watched and followed were Bob Gibson , Tom Seaver and Jim Palmer. Anyway hope Lance gets it and the Sox pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I almost got into a fistfight with a guy when I told him that statistically Nolan Ryan was an average pitcher. This was in the early 2000's when wins and losses were a leading indicator. Even when not taking wins and losses into account his reality is not as great as his perceived value and I was a huge Nolan Ryan fan until he beat Ventura's ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: I almost got into a fistfight with a guy when I told him that statistically Nolan Ryan was an average pitcher. This was in the early 2000's when wins and losses were a leading indicator. Even when not taking wins and losses into account his reality is not as great as his perceived value and I was a huge Nolan Ryan fan until he beat Ventura's ass. What did Nolan do wrong? Robin was the dumbass who decided to take on "old man strong", and look foolish doing so. I liked Nolan even more after that incident. They both reconciled years later. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-white-sox/unforgettable-fight-between-nolan-ryan-and-robin-ventura-revisited-23-years-later https://www.espn.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7783634/nolan-ryan-texas-rangers-robin-ventura-chicago-white-sox-meet-first-time-brawl Quote "He was a very good player and very successful player," Ryan said Thursday. "It was just a reaction or response to the moment. He and I had no personal interaction prior to that night. There was nothing that precipitated it from something previously." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 4 hours ago, ptatc said: I'm old. ? Glad its not just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Speaking of Sox players who grew up on California farms...and also attended Stanford. By STEVE HENSON DEC. 13, 1996 12 AM PT TIMES STAFF WRITER CAMARILLO — Joe Borchard could as easily be Joe Athlete, a Madison Avenue creation marketed for the holidays at a department store near you. There’s the body of NFL proportions: 6-feet-4 and 202 chiseled pounds, close-cropped hair and All-American good looks. There’s speed, arm strength, and the classic release point on his sharp spirals. There’s also a 4.0 grade-point average, a gee-whiz demeanor, and dedication to basketball and baseball when the time comes. The radiant smile he’s worn lately does more than fit an image. Borchard for the first time knows for sure that his looks are not deceiving. He is the genuine article. A proven winner. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-12-13-sp-9119-story.html Edited June 8, 2021 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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