Bowden mentions Sox potential interest in Frazier

[GreenSox]

They should make these trades for October 2021; nothing else.  Frazier isn't ideal for this year October,  and certainly not next year (his game in RF is what you get from Goodwin or the like).  A rent would be cheaper (apparently - Heyman prices him like he's a stud); a rent is also a better fit because, as of now, the sox don't need a 2B, OF or C beyond this October.

What they are going to need is pitching, as these guys start rolling off the rotation.  

[Lillian]

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They should make these trades for October 2021; nothing else.  Frazier isn't ideal for this year October,  and certainly not next year (his game in RF is what you get from Goodwin or the like).  A rent would be cheaper (apparently - Heyman prices him like he's a stud); a rent is also a better fit because, as of now, the sox don't need a 2B, OF or C beyond this October.

What they are going to need is pitching, as these guys start rolling off the rotation.  

Precisely, and I would guess that Hahn and the rest of the front office is thinking the same thing. It just seems like the most rational approach. However, not everyone here agrees, so it will be interesting to see what Hahn does. Just to add a note; Escobar hit #20 last night and now has 60 RBI's. That works for me. A rental, can play second base and is a switch hitter. Seems like a perfect fit, doesn't it?

[GreenSox]

15 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Just to add a note; Escobar hit #20 last night and now has 60 RBI's. That works for me. A rental, can play second base and is a switch hitter. Seems like a perfect fit, doesn't it?

I like Escobar too, and his price should be right; although his numbers are firming up, so if there was a discount to be had, it's probably gone.
I don't know how Arizona could be so bad, but they are and they should have a clearance sale that includes any and every player.  

Edited July 10, 2021 by GreenSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:38 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

He’ll cost more than you think unfortunately.  Regardless, we should be targeting power like you said.

I think the asks for Frazier and Gallo will be high just like the ask for Lynn was high last year. But these teams that hold onto players expecting a big haul for just 1.5 years of control end up holding onto them until the returns are diminished or they hurt themselves with an injury. Gallo missed a lot of time in 2019 with a strained oblique and broken hamate bone in his wrist.

Gallo has expressed a desire to stay in TX but should they really want to re sign him when they are so bad or keep him until he becomes a FA ,give him a QO (if thats still possible) and get nothing for him but the comp pick ?

Will be quite interesting to see how the Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Kimbrel, Story, Jon Gray,Scherzer Tyler Anderson, S. Marte, Castellanos will be handled and how much they end up going for as it will be for guys with 1.5 yrs left. Will pitching demand more of a premium than hitters ?

Right now it seems like no one really wants to set a high market value and there will be some type of frenzy as the trade deadlines get closer and teams are faced with getting nothing for their impending free agents or a guy like Castellanos would could opt out of his deal with the Reds.

Kind of amazing the Sox got Lynn for Dunning and Rodon because no one else wanted him instead of just paying for Jose Quintana who so many wanted. Sox need to take advantage of their very rare fortune in getting those 2 plus the fortune they have received in many players stepping up to fill holes created by injuries.  No one should fool themselves into thinking that guys like Mendick , Goodwin, Lamb, Sheets, Burger , Leury or Hamilton would be getting much time, if any, in the playoffs.

 I don't think we will see the teams who truly want to win a world Series hesitate to add important pieces.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

Sox and Giants "out in front " for Frazier. 

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-sports-illustrated-reporter-sees-2-teams-out-front-in-the-adam-frazier-trade-sweepstakes/

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sox and Giants "out in front " for Frazier. 

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-sports-illustrated-reporter-sees-2-teams-out-front-in-the-adam-frazier-trade-sweepstakes/

Thought there was something here other than a writer’s opinion.

[Chicago White Sox]

57 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Thought there was something here other than a writer’s opinion.

He also cites a factually incorrect “Heyman said the Pirates can get Vaughn for Frazier” statement.

[beck72]

While 2b may not be a big concern with Garcia hitting out of his mind, the 2nd half he’s likely to come back down to earth. For that matter, Goodwin as well in the OF.
 

Frazier has a far better track record than Garcia and Goodwin and should be counted on to produce vs. top pitchers-esp who they’d face in the playoffs. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:18 PM, beck72 said:

While 2b may not be a big concern with Garcia hitting out of his mind, the 2nd half he’s likely to come back down to earth. For that matter, Goodwin as well in the OF.
 

Frazier has a far better track record than Garcia and Goodwin and should be counted on to produce vs. top pitchers-esp who they’d face in the playoffs. 

Arizona has played 46 games against the Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Mets, A's, Brewers. That's more than 1/2 their games against some of the best pitching in baseball.

Escobar has 20 HR's on the season and he would be cheaper than Frazier. That's all you need to know.

[hi8is]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Arizona has played 46 games against the Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Mets, A's, Brewers. That's more than 1/2 their games against some of the best pitching in baseball.

Escobar has 20 HR's on the season and he would be cheaper than Frazier. That's all you need to know.

You’re a baller.

[beck72]

55 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Arizona has played 46 games against the Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Mets, A's, Brewers. That's more than 1/2 their games against some of the best pitching in baseball.

Escobar has 20 HR's on the season and he would be cheaper than Frazier. That's all you need to know.

I’d be fine with Escobar. Especially as he can give Moncada a break at 3b as well.
 

As long as the Sox get the bullpen additions, I wouldn’t be against Frazier though if the price wasn’t too high. The Sox do need another high OBP and guy who can work counts. Grandal is due back but plan B to replace both Madrigals and his OBP with only Escobar might not be enough vs top pitching. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

54 minutes ago, beck72 said:

I’d be fine with Escobar. Especially as he can give Moncada a break at 3b as well.
 

As long as the Sox get the bullpen additions, I wouldn’t be against Frazier though if the price wasn’t too high. The Sox do need another high OBP and guy who can work counts. Grandal is due back but plan B to replace both Madrigals and his OBP with only Escobar might not be enough vs top pitching. 

Losing Grandal does hurt OBP but the Sox but hurts their power even more. The Astro's and Sox are 1 and 2 in baseball in OBP so losing 1 guy isn't too bad. As of yet they haven't missed Madrigals OBP that much but they do lose a steady bat but not a run producer.

The thing that concerns me most is the Sox are 14th out of the 15 AL teams in HR's barely ahead of the Royals and this is with the Sox facing the dregs of their division Tigers, Royals Twins pitching staffs and 7 games against the Orioles too. Of course injuries are to blame for some of it but so is lower than expected HR's from Moncada and the just recent loss of Grandal will hurt it even more.

Also the Sox eliminated 12 HR's from the lineup when ejecting Eaton and Mercedes. They have picked up a few recently with better then expected results from Engel and Goodwin but they need better results from the guys in the lineup every day and without Grandal they need to have another regular pick it up or go outside the organization for HR's which is why Escobar should be the pick.  If the Sox shock us and go for another position player I'd be happy to add Starling Marte in RF if the cost for Gallos' HR's + OBP is prohibitive.

Edited July 13, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Zoinks ! Alonso defending his title with some bombs. 25 with a minute to go . Polar Bear Power ! Salvy Perez has his work cut out for him.

[beck72]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Losing Grandal does hurt OBP but the Sox but hurts their power even more. The Astro's and Sox are 1 and 2 in baseball in OBP so losing 1 guy isn't too bad. As of yet they haven't missed Madrigals OBP that much but they do lose a steady bat but not a run producer.

The thing that concerns me most is the Sox are 14th out of the 15 AL teams in HR's barely ahead of the Royals and this is with the Sox facing the dregs of their division Tigers, Royals Twins pitching staffs and 7 games against the Orioles too. Of course injuries are to blame for some of it but so is lower than expected HR's from Moncada and the just recent loss of Grandal will hurt it even more.

Also the Sox eliminated 12 HR's from the lineup when ejecting Eaton and Mercedes. They have picked up a few recently with better then expected results from Engel and Goodwin but they need better results from the guys in the lineup every day and without Grandal they need to have another regular pick it up or go outside the organization for HR's which is why Escobar should be the pick.  If the Sox shock us and go for another position player I'd be happy to add Starling Marte in RF if the cost for Gallos' HR's + OBP is prohibitive.

The HR's should increase in the 2nd half. TA, Moncada, and Abreu are all below their SLG norms and are likely to hit more. Vaughn is figuring it out.  Eloy, Robert and Grandal returning will help. 

I'm just of the mind of the Sox adding the best hitter they can afford in terms of prospects and salary [after they add to the bullpen-which is the priority] will help them maintain the AL Central lead and go far in the playoffs. But having that bat who can also play multiple defensive positions should be key. That way he can be insurance for another injury. Javy Baez would be the ultimate insurance policy for 3b, SS and 2b. Kris Bryant a close 2nd with him being able to play all over the diamond at 3b, LF, RF and 1b. Escobar would be good for 3b and 2b. 

Frazier isn't ideal as he'd be here for 2022-though his bat fits in great. Vaughn is showing he can play LF for a few years and Nick back would block Frazier-unless Frazier could play RF. Marte I like-esp. as he's improved his BB% and can play CF and a corner. 

It will be interesting to see who the Sox add. Depending on the bat they add, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Burger or Sheets be traded. Neither is a long term piece but could be major league regulars. Teams that want to "retool" rather than "rebuild" [like the Cubs at least say they want to do] could be trading partners. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, beck72 said:

The HR's should increase in the 2nd half. TA, Moncada, and Abreu are all below their SLG norms and are likely to hit more. Vaughn is figuring it out.  Eloy, Robert and Grandal returning will help. 

I'm just of the mind of the Sox adding the best hitter they can afford in terms of prospects and salary [after they add to the bullpen-which is the priority] will help them maintain the AL Central lead and go far in the playoffs. But having that bat who can also play multiple defensive positions should be key. That way he can be insurance for another injury. Javy Baez would be the ultimate insurance policy for 3b, SS and 2b. Kris Bryant a close 2nd with him being able to play all over the diamond at 3b, LF, RF and 1b. Escobar would be good for 3b and 2b. 

Frazier isn't ideal as he'd be here for 2022-though his bat fits in great. Vaughn is showing he can play LF for a few years and Nick back would block Frazier-unless Frazier could play RF. Marte I like-esp. as he's improved his BB% and can play CF and a corner. 

It will be interesting to see who the Sox add. Depending on the bat they add, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Burger or Sheets be traded. Neither is a long term piece but could be major league regulars. Teams that want to "retool" rather than "rebuild" [like the Cubs at least say they want to do] could be trading partners. 

Why I want HR's so bad besides the total lack of them in the 1st half against poor competition is that the returning guys are going to be a bit rusty so I don't really like counting on them to be their fully realized selves. Robert only hit 1 before he was injured and his injury was more severe than Eloys. Grandal's injury is still part mystery and he could be out longer than expected. Also Eloy and Robert are RH as is Abreu Vaughn and Anderson if you are counting on them to pick up the HR pace with less than half the schedule left. Mocada's lack of power can probably be traced to shoulder problems so I'm not counting on him hitting any more than he did in the 1st half.

So if Grandal is coming back later than our other injured guys and Moncada is just just not hitting them because of playing through injury  than there is basically no LH power  which is way I prefer the switch hitter Escobar and the LH Gallo and his GG fielding and rocket arm.

If Schwarber is healthy his LH power and OBP is also welcome but the glove falls far short of Gallo. Baez and Bryant are fine but both are RH and since we are talking about versatility you also need versatility in the lineup and those 2 would make the Sox far too right handed which is not ideal when you face so many good RHP in the playoffs.

I understand you wanting the versatility of Baez and Bryant but it leaves the Sox way too dependent on RH hitting.

However I would not sneer at them if that's who the Sox can get the best deals on. With all else equal I would prefer Escobar and Gallo. I also agree that relief pitching should be right at the top as far as acquisitions go and expecting 2 high quality position players along with 2 relievers might be getting a little wild when we have been conditioned to not expecting much.

[beck72]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why I want HR's so bad besides the total lack of them in the 1st half against poor competition is that the returning guys are going to be a bit rusty so I don't really like counting on them to be their fully realized selves. Robert only hit 1 before he was injured and his injury was more severe than Eloys. Grandal's injury is still part mystery and he could be out longer than expected. Also Eloy and Robert are RH as is Abreu Vaughn and Anderson if you are counting on them to pick up the HR pace with less than half the schedule left. Mocada's lack of power can probably be traced to shoulder problems so I'm not counting on him hitting any more than he did in the 1st half.

So if Grandal is coming back later than our other injured guys and Moncada is just just not hitting them because of playing through injury  than there is basically no LH power  which is way I prefer the switch hitter Escobar and the LH Gallo and his GG fielding and rocket arm.

If Schwarber is healthy his LH power and OBP is also welcome but the glove falls far short of Gallo. Baez and Bryant are fine but both are RH and since we are talking about versatility you also need versatility in the lineup and those 2 would make the Sox far too right handed which is not ideal when you face so many good RHP in the playoffs.

I understand you wanting the versatility of Baez and Bryant but it leaves the Sox way too dependent on RH hitting.

However I would not sneer at them if that's who the Sox can get the best deals on. With all else equal I would prefer Escobar and Gallo. I also agree that relief pitching should be right at the top as far as acquisitions go and expecting 2 high quality position players along with 2 relievers might be getting a little wild when we have been conditioned to not expecting much.

What’s Gallo’s contract status? I figured his bat would be out of the Sox ability to get and add bullpens arms. He and Bryant would probably cost similar in terms of prospects. Another big LH power bat would be ideal. 

I only see the Sox adding one decent position player with the bench players like Goodwin and. Leary doing so well. 

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why I want HR's so bad besides the total lack of them in the 1st half against poor competition is that the returning guys are going to be a bit rusty so I don't really like counting on them to be their fully realized selves. Robert only hit 1 before he was injured and his injury was more severe than Eloys. Grandal's injury is still part mystery and he could be out longer than expected. Also Eloy and Robert are RH as is Abreu Vaughn and Anderson if you are counting on them to pick up the HR pace with less than half the schedule left. Mocada's lack of power can probably be traced to shoulder problems so I'm not counting on him hitting any more than he did in the 1st half.

So if Grandal is coming back later than our other injured guys and Moncada is just just not hitting them because of playing through injury  than there is basically no LH power  which is way I prefer the switch hitter Escobar and the LH Gallo and his GG fielding and rocket arm.

If Schwarber is healthy his LH power and OBP is also welcome but the glove falls far short of Gallo. Baez and Bryant are fine but both are RH and since we are talking about versatility you also need versatility in the lineup and those 2 would make the Sox far too right handed which is not ideal when you face so many good RHP in the playoffs.

I understand you wanting the versatility of Baez and Bryant but it leaves the Sox way too dependent on RH hitting.

However I would not sneer at them if that's who the Sox can get the best deals on. With all else equal I would prefer Escobar and Gallo. I also agree that relief pitching should be right at the top as far as acquisitions go and expecting 2 high quality position players along with 2 relievers might be getting a little wild when we have been conditioned to not expecting much.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/joey-gallo/14128/stats?position=OF
Still has a negative defensive score after positives the last two seasons.

Just can’t imagine a 5+ fWAR guy for 1.4 or 1.5 seasons or whatever will come cheap but we will see how many dumpers there are the last 2 weeks of the month.

Vaughn, fwiw, now at -3.6 defensively and trending for around 1.5 overall, 2ish if the offense continues like it has in recent weeks.

Edited July 13, 2021 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, beck72 said:

What’s Gallo’s contract status? I figured his bat would be out of the Sox ability to get and add bullpens arms. He and Bryant would probably cost similar in terms of prospects. Another big LH power bat would be ideal. 

I only see the Sox adding one decent position player with the bench players like Goodwin and. Leary doing so well. 

Gallo has this year and next on his contract so 1.4 years left and if Texas holds onto him right til the deadline it might be 1.3 years. I know Texas is probably asking for a lot for him which is why my position on so many acquisitions is being called going all in.

It's my position that Texas is reluctant to move him without getting a very good package. However they held onto Lynn who was basically at the same point in his contract that Lynn was last year and ended up getting  Dunning when no one would bite on their asking price for him at last years trade deadline. Gallo has been scorching hot for approximately his last 120 AB's. I cannot find the numbers on those AB's that I did before but they are outrageously good and Tx. would be wise to move him now at his peak. They probably want MLB ready pitching since that was what I read but I think it was speculative rather than fact.

However it does make sense that they would like to turn things around asap but it also may require a full rebuild where not quite near MLB pitching might suffice. Unfortunately if they want strictly starting pitching the Sox may fall short in being able to provide that. The Sox won't give up Kopech with Rodon and Lynn becoming FA's next year and Crochet is a  big piece of the BP and moving him would require even more BP help this year. So it's really hard to speculate on a package that would be acceptable to the Rangers and beat all other offers. The Sox might be interested in Ian Kennedy also from the Rangers BP.

I will be very interested in seeing what they do with Gallo. My fallback options are Schwarber, S. Marte and Bryant all rentals .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/joey-gallo/14128/stats?position=OF
Still has a negative defensive score after positives the last two seasons.

Just can’t imagine a 5+ fWAR guy for 1.4 or 1.5 seasons or whatever will come cheap but we will see how many dumpers there are the last 2 weeks of the month.

Vaughn, fwiw, now at -3.6 defensively and trending for around 1.5 overall, 2ish if the offense continues like it has in recent weeks.

If you consider the end result of trading Sale was basically Moncada and Kopech. I really don't understand why everyone expects Texas to get so much for 1.4 years of Gallo. I think 1 good pitching prospect  a decent secondary piece and a lotto ticket should be good enough of a return to get him. I might be way off on that but Texas was way off on what they expected for Lynn and starting pitching is usually a hotter commodity at the Trade deadline than position players and the Sox still ended up getting Lynn for only 1 prospect in the off season when all teams had plenty of time to make the best offer for him.

By the way I also was the one who 1st suggested Dunning for Lynn (well @hi8is says I was ) so it may not mean anything but expecting a little more than Dunning  seems about right to me. We might not have a pitching prospect the equal of Dunning but we do have some decent position players in Burger and Sheets to offer some kind of mixed deal.

[beck72]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Gallo has this year and next on his contract so 1.4 years left and if Texas holds onto him right til the deadline it might be 1.3 years. I know Texas is probably asking for a lot for him which is why my position on so many acquisitions is being called going all in.

It's my position that Texas is reluctant to move him without getting a very good package. However they held onto Lynn who was basically at the same point in his contract that Lynn was last year and ended up getting  Dunning when no one would bite on their asking price for him at last years trade deadline. Gallo has been scorching hot for approximately his last 120 AB's. I cannot find the numbers on those AB's that I did before but they are outrageously good and Tx. would be wise to move him now at his peak. They probably want MLB ready pitching since that was what I read but I think it was speculative rather than fact.

However it does make sense that they would like to turn things around asap but it also may require a full rebuild where not quite near MLB pitching might suffice. Unfortunately if they want strictly starting pitching the Sox may fall short in being able to provide that. The Sox won't give up Kopech with Rodon and Lynn becoming FA's next year and Crochet is a  big piece of the BP and moving him would require even more BP help this year. So it's really hard to speculate on a package that would be acceptable to the Rangers and beat all other offers. The Sox might be interested in Ian Kennedy also from the Rangers BP.

I will be very interested in seeing what they do with Gallo. My fallback options are Schwarber, S. Marte and Bryant all rentals .

The Sox do have some history trading with Texas. The Lynn-Dunning trade worked for both so there may be less risk of losing a trade involving Gallo. Texas' offense is putrid, near the bottom of the AL in SLG and OPS [14th]. Pitching isn't bad but not great. If they want a position player near or ready for the bigs Burger or Sheets as a headliner could work. 

Texas would be wise to sell high now on Gallo. His current numbers of .239/.402/ .522 are better than his career .213/.339/.502 line. If Gallo drops the rest of 2021 they may not have a better deal on the table for them in the offseason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 minutes ago, beck72 said:

The Sox do have some history trading with Texas. The Lynn-Dunning trade worked for both so there may be less risk of losing a trade involving Gallo. Texas' offense is putrid, near the bottom of the AL in SLG and OPS [14th]. Pitching isn't bad but not great. If they want a position player near or ready for the bigs Burger or Sheets as a headliner could work. 

Texas would be wise to sell high now on Gallo. His current numbers of .239/.402/ .522 are better than his career .213/.339/.502 line. If Gallo drops the rest of 2021 they may not have a better deal on the table for them in the offseason.

Another good thing about Gallo is that he isn't a liability against LHP . His splits for his career are pretty equal. You can also stick him at cleanup and never have to worry about seeing Goodwin at cleanup ever again.  I know he's done very well but can you imagine Goodwin playing a primary role  in the World Series a guy who one of the worst teams in baseball released ? He closer to being released again  after everyone gets healthy than he is to being used in the playoffs. And this is from the guy (me) who has loved what he has done with the Sox so far.

Edited July 13, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[beck72]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Another good thing about Gallo is that he isn't a liability against LHP . His splits for his career are pretty equal. You can also stick him at cleanup and never have to worry about seeing Goodwin at cleanup ever again.  I know he's done very well but can you imagine Goodwin playing a primary role  in the World Series a guy who one of the worst teams in baseball released ? He closer to being released again  after everyone gets healthy than he is to being used in the playoffs. And this is from the guy (me) who has loved what he has done with the Sox so far.

I totally get that the Sox can't be expecting guys like Goodwin, Leury, Sheets and Burger to be getting big hits in the playoffs. They've done great but we can't be counting on them as starters. Having another big, middle of the order bat makes sense. 

[hi8is]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

By the way I also was the one who 1st suggested Dunning for Lynn (well @hi8is says I was )

Baller.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Baller.

You are saving me from the mob again in the power outage thread ! Do I have a sign on my back that says kick me lately ? I feel like no one wants to win in the playoffs and we'd all should be happy holding hands and singing Kumbayah because we make the playoff 2 years in a row.

[maloney.adam]