Will Hahn be more active this deadline?

[caulfield12]

Starling Marte.

Starlin Castro.

fwiw.

[YourWhatHurts]

51 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We should set our sights higher than Ross Detwiler.  We also have Jace Fry to add to the pen mix.

We don't need more marginal 1 inning guys.  We need a legit multi-inning type.  As far as that goes, judging by Detwiler's performance the last couple of years, those are some pretty high sights for a LR/spot starter type. 

At least Detwiler has been a SP most of his career.  TLR keeps trying to extend guys like Foster and Marshall who just can't be extended.  Especially Foster.  He has really asked Foster to do something that he just doesn't have the pitch mix to do.

The Sox should probably trade one of these 1 inning guys.  Between Fry, Foster, Marshall and Ruiz that's 4 guys who are good for a single inning at best and none of them have worked in a SU/high leverage role. 

I think if you add 2 spots to the pen it is 1) a legit multi-inning/spot starter and 2) a legit high leverage guy.  The first type should be an easy get.  The second type gets hard to do because we'll most likely be bidding against a lot of other teams in order to acquire a guy who is likely to be a lesser quality RP than either Heuer or Bummer if they right the ship, and lesser than Kopech and Crochet also.  I don't really want to start trading away better pieces to get a guy who, if the others all rebound/perform as expected, is the 6th best reliever in the pen.

 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

We don't need more marginal 1 inning guys.  We need a legit multi-inning type.  As far as that goes, judging by Detwiler's performance the last couple of years, those are some pretty high sights for a LR/spot starter type. 

At least Detwiler has been a SP most of his career.  TLR keeps trying to extend guys like Foster and Marshall who just can't be extended.  Especially Foster.  He has really asked Foster to do something that he just doesn't have the pitch mix to do.

The Sox should probably trade one of these 1 inning guys.  Between Fry, Foster, Marshall and Ruiz that's 4 guys who are good for a single inning at best and none of them have worked in a SU/high leverage role. 

I think if you add 2 spots to the pen it is 1) a legit multi-inning/spot starter and 2) a legit high leverage guy.  The first type should be an easy get.  The second type gets hard to do because we'll most likely be bidding against a lot of other teams in order to acquire a guy who is likely to be a lesser quality RP than either Heuer or Bummer if they right the ship, and lesser than Kopech and Crochet also.  I don't really want to start trading away better pieces to get a guy who, if the others all rebound/perform as expected, is the 6th best reliever in the pen.

 

Hence, Iglesias, Hudson and Rodriguez...maybe Daniel Bard.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Hence, Iglesias, Hudson and Rodriguez...maybe Daniel Bard.

From that list, Ian Kennedy is the guy who jumped out to me -- lots of Sox familiarity with him from his time in KC, low salary, and a history of dealing with the TX front office.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Friend of Nordhagen said:

From that list, Ian Kennedy is the guy who jumped out to me -- lots of Sox familiarity with him from his time in KC, low salary, and a history of dealing with the TX front office.

Plus he can go multiple innings...send Leury back, haha?

Edited June 13, 2021 by caulfield12

[YourWhatHurts]

Stiever for Staumont

Burger for Staumont

Lambert for Staumont

Dangerous deal for us to trade a potential SP or corner IF/DH for a RP, but at least he is electric.  Maybe something like this is possible.

I know people are down on both Lambert and Stiever but personally I liked and still like both better than Dunning personally, and Dunning got us Lynn.

[YourWhatHurts]

Kennedy is a more ideal fit, much better than Iglesias IMO.  We need a guy who will throw strikes and not have so many fits of wildness.  We already have that issue with both Bummer and Heuer.

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Kennedy is a more ideal fit, much better than Iglesias IMO.  We need a guy who will throw strikes and not have so many fits of wildness.  We already have that issue with both Bummer and Heuer.

Otoh, Cuban Connection!

[GGajewski18]

Deals I would do at the deadline as we speak:

Acquire Ian Kennedy for Kade McClure

Acquire Eduardo Escobar for Jake Burger and Tyler Johnson

Acquire Starling Marte for Micker Adolfo and Jose Rodriguez

[black jack]

22 hours ago, GreenSox said:

I hope he sits on his hands.  He's not good at deadline work.

Not only that, but unless the price is very low, I don't see the need to lose prospects for rentals.  

Let's stretch this window out by keeping the farm to supplement the FA's were going to lose.  

[ron883]

5 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Deals I would do at the deadline as we speak:

Acquire Ian Kennedy for Kade McClure

Acquire Eduardo Escobar for Jake Burger and Tyler Johnson

Acquire Starling Marte for Micker Adolfo and Jose Rodriguez

The Eduardo Escobar trade seems a bit steep tbh. Same with the Marte trade. It really depends on salary considerations for Marte. I'm really high on Jose Rodriguez. I would hate to give him up for a half year rental.

[GGajewski18]

3 minutes ago, ron883 said:

The Eduardo Escobar trade seems a bit steep tbh. Same with the Marte trade. It really depends on salary considerations for Marte. I'm really high on Jose Rodriguez. I would hate to give him up for a half year rental.

Gotta give to get.  Out of the five players I proposed to send away, four of them have no futures here given the current state of the Sox.  

IMO, capitalize on this great team.  Get more depth and let's win a fricken ring.

[SonofaRoache]

10 minutes ago, black jack said:

Not only that, but unless the price is very low, I don't see the need to lose prospects for rentals.  

Let's stretch this window out by keeping the farm to supplement the FA's were going to lose.  

This rebuild will need to be stretched out through the draft and signing Latin players. Our farm is ass and nothing can be done about that. 

[black jack]

3 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Gotta give to get.  Out of the five players I proposed to send away, four of them have no futures here given the current state of the Sox.  

IMO, capitalize on this great team.  Get more depth and let's win a fricken ring.

This season with the freak injuries has taught me that no one is truly blocked.

They will trade some of these kids, I just hope our scouts pick the right ones to keep. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, black jack said:

Not only that, but unless the price is very low, I don't see the need to lose prospects for rentals.  

Let's stretch this window out by keeping the farm to supplement the FA's were going to lose.  

The farm is a mess . AAA and AA it's filled with AAAA guys in their mid twenties. Anyone is is willing to take them is fine by me.

The only window in my mind is the open window this year with a better starting pitching staff than we are going to get in any the future window.

If you want Rodon, Kopech and Crochet to pitch in a World Series then their innings need to be severely curtailed and we need extra arms. All 3 of them barely pitched in 2019 and 2020. Those 3 are way too important to success this year. Pitcher's are dropping like flys already  so imagine how bad the 2nd half will be . The eventual World Series winner will have the best pitching depth. It's going to be a war of attrition.

Edited June 14, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[tray]

 

If Mercedes keeps regressing he won't be worth a thing in trade. Given that, I'd sell high on Mercedes and let Vaughn DH after Eloy and Robert come back.

I guess people with Yerminator jerseys wouldn't like that though.

 

 

 

[joejoesox]

Sox should wait til the last minute to trade for Escobar.  The more games he plays for the Sox, more likely his hamstring falls off

[joejoesox]

1 hour ago, tray said:

 

If Mercedes keeps regressing he won't be worth a thing in trade. Given that, I'd sell high on Mercedes and let Vaughn DH after Eloy and Robert come back.

I guess people with Yerminator jerseys wouldn't like that though.

 

 

 

selling high on Mercedes was in May

[FriendlyNorthsider]

10 hours ago, black jack said:

Not only that, but unless the price is very low, I don't see the need to lose prospects for rentals.  

Let's stretch this window out by keeping the farm to supplement the FA's were going to lose.  

The Sox window 2021-2024 IMO as the core becomes more expensive or is leaving in 2024. There isnt a single minor leaguer at this point that I wouldn't be okay trading if it made sense for the big league club. None of the minor leaguers are, at this point, top 100 guys. Jose Rodriguez is probably the best Sox prospect at this point (beyond the Cubans and maybe Kelley), and he isnt untouchable. 

The Sox have two Cy young candidates entering free-agency next year, making this year a good year to push some more chips in. Until we see the Sox play some more quality competition, I think we wont fully understand what their needs are until they play teams that are better than DET, BAL, KC, etc.. If they run through Tampa Bay and the Astros, then maybe you're right and there is no reason to mortgage any part of the future. But I worry that at some point, theyre going to need another impact bat and another impact arm in the pen as insurance for a Crotchet injury or having to use Kopech as an opener due to injuries. 

After the deadline the Sox have a run of 3 @ CHC, 3 @MIN, 3 v NYY, 3 v OAK, 3 @TB, 4 @ TOR, and 3 v CHC. I'd rather be over-prepared for the test than under prepared.The Sox are by far the best team in the AL Central and personally, I think they'll run away with it. I'm more worried about an ALCS against NYY where they made some big moves at the deadline. 

That gives them time to fully assess what they need and how badly they need it. Winning a World Series is incredibly difficult and may require some sacrifice in the long term. I always go back to my Cubs, but there isnt a Cub fan out there that regrets Gleyber for Chapman. The Cubs had a glaring need at the deadline and made a deal that put them over the edge. Quintana for Cease + Eloy or even Wade Davis for Soler were different. Those trades were anticipatory and ended up backfiring. 

The Dunning for Lynn trade was largely panned here as paying too much for a rental, but look at how its panning out. The Sox realized in 2020 that they needed top of the rotation pitching to win in the playoffs, and they struck gold.

Anything the Sox can do to win in 2021-2024 should be on the table. If the Sox arent going to trade Kade Mclure or Jake frickin Burger to make them even stronger for the playoffs, then they should just trade Rodon and Lynn for a king's ransom and get back a couple of high school juniors like the Cubs did for Yu.

Hahn has done a great job of turning Eaton, Quintana, Sale, and years of good draft picks into Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, Lynn, Vaughn, Eloy, Cease, Rodon, TA, Madrigal, etc. Give him the keys to put them over the top. Just my opinion

Edited June 14, 2021 by FriendlyNorthsider

[quickman]

2 hours ago, FriendlyNorthsider said:

The Sox window 2021-2024 IMO as the core becomes more expensive or is leaving in 2024. There isnt a single minor leaguer at this point that I wouldn't be okay trading if it made sense for the big league club. None of the minor leaguers are, at this point, top 100 guys. Jose Rodriguez is probably the best Sox prospect at this point (beyond the Cubans and maybe Kelley), and he isnt untouchable. 

The Sox have two Cy young candidates entering free-agency next year, making this year a good year to push some more chips in. Until we see the Sox play some more quality competition, I think we wont fully understand what their needs are until they play teams that are better than DET, BAL, KC, etc.. If they run through Tampa Bay and the Astros, then maybe you're right and there is no reason to mortgage any part of the future. But I worry that at some point, theyre going to need another impact bat and another impact arm in the pen as insurance for a Crotchet injury or having to use Kopech as an opener due to injuries. 

After the deadline the Sox have a run of 3 @ CHC, 3 @MIN, 3 v NYY, 3 v OAK, 3 @TB, 4 @ TOR, and 3 v CHC. I'd rather be over-prepared for the test than under prepared.The Sox are by far the best team in the AL Central and personally, I think they'll run away with it. I'm more worried about an ALCS against NYY where they made some big moves at the deadline. 

That gives them time to fully assess what they need and how badly they need it. Winning a World Series is incredibly difficult and may require some sacrifice in the long term. I always go back to my Cubs, but there isnt a Cub fan out there that regrets Gleyber for Chapman. The Cubs had a glaring need at the deadline and made a deal that put them over the edge. Quintana for Cease + Eloy or even Wade Davis for Soler were different. Those trades were anticipatory and ended up backfiring. 

The Dunning for Lynn trade was largely panned here as paying too much for a rental, but look at how its panning out. The Sox realized in 2020 that they needed top of the rotation pitching to win in the playoffs, and they struck gold.

Anything the Sox can do to win in 2021-2024 should be on the table. If the Sox arent going to trade Kade Mclure or Jake frickin Burger to make them even stronger for the playoffs, then they should just trade Rodon and Lynn for a king's ransom and get back a couple of high school juniors like the Cubs did for Yu.

Hahn has done a great job of turning Eaton, Quintana, Sale, and years of good draft picks into Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, Lynn, Vaughn, Eloy, Cease, Rodon, TA, Madrigal, etc. Give him the keys to put them over the top. Just my opinion

Real nice assessment and well thought out . Hopefully the Sox get the message of spending more to keep the window open. They should make a run at signing lynn, Rodon will be gone so let’s use him up.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, FriendlyNorthsider said:

The Sox window 2021-2024 IMO as the core becomes more expensive or is leaving in 2024. There isnt a single minor leaguer at this point that I wouldn't be okay trading if it made sense for the big league club. None of the minor leaguers are, at this point, top 100 guys. Jose Rodriguez is probably the best Sox prospect at this point (beyond the Cubans and maybe Kelley), and he isnt untouchable. 

The Sox have two Cy young candidates entering free-agency next year, making this year a good year to push some more chips in. Until we see the Sox play some more quality competition, I think we wont fully understand what their needs are until they play teams that are better than DET, BAL, KC, etc.. If they run through Tampa Bay and the Astros, then maybe you're right and there is no reason to mortgage any part of the future. But I worry that at some point, theyre going to need another impact bat and another impact arm in the pen as insurance for a Crotchet injury or having to use Kopech as an opener due to injuries. 

After the deadline the Sox have a run of 3 @ CHC, 3 @MIN, 3 v NYY, 3 v OAK, 3 @TB, 4 @ TOR, and 3 v CHC. I'd rather be over-prepared for the test than under prepared.The Sox are by far the best team in the AL Central and personally, I think they'll run away with it. I'm more worried about an ALCS against NYY where they made some big moves at the deadline. 

That gives them time to fully assess what they need and how badly they need it. Winning a World Series is incredibly difficult and may require some sacrifice in the long term. I always go back to my Cubs, but there isnt a Cub fan out there that regrets Gleyber for Chapman. The Cubs had a glaring need at the deadline and made a deal that put them over the edge. Quintana for Cease + Eloy or even Wade Davis for Soler were different. Those trades were anticipatory and ended up backfiring. 

The Dunning for Lynn trade was largely panned here as paying too much for a rental, but look at how its panning out. The Sox realized in 2020 that they needed top of the rotation pitching to win in the playoffs, and they struck gold.

Anything the Sox can do to win in 2021-2024 should be on the table. If the Sox arent going to trade Kade Mclure or Jake frickin Burger to make them even stronger for the playoffs, then they should just trade Rodon and Lynn for a king's ransom and get back a couple of high school juniors like the Cubs did for Yu.

Hahn has done a great job of turning Eaton, Quintana, Sale, and years of good draft picks into Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, Lynn, Vaughn, Eloy, Cease, Rodon, TA, Madrigal, etc. Give him the keys to put them over the top. Just my opinion

Good post and very much along the same lines as I posted a few posts back.

I'd say the opinions on Dunning for Lynn trade was about split 50/50. There will always be a very vocal group who love prospects so much that any trade of any prospect for one year of a player will be criticized. The negative opinions are always the loudest in any area.  Game threads would all be under 5 pages if all the negative and post game comments after wins were taken out.

I'm pretty sure I posted a lot about the trade since I was probably the 1st one to suggest that trade before the  trade deadline in 2020. I really wanted Lynn for 2 post seasons instead of 1. The Rangers put a higher price on him I'm guessing that the Sox decided not to pay and year one of contending in 2020 was out the window. It was always in my mind that if you make the playoffs it's a contending year.

Right now only the present counts and his team will surely have good enough hitting once Eloy and Robert come back. Between Engel, Goodwin, Eaton and Vaughn I'm good with the OF although 1 player who could play defense and offense would be nice. A switch hitting power bat like Escobar would be really nice for 2nd base but once again pitching will be the key so I'm just going to keep sounding like a broken record.

Load up on relief pitching . Find a couple of good veteran arms who have been through the grind  like Hendrix . Guys who appear to have rubber arms who pitch well and often. If the Sox keep pitching Rodon and Kopech at their current rates neither will be around to pitch in the World Series which is a partial reason why Kopech is taking a while to come back from his injury.

Rodon pitched 42 combined innings  in the last 2 years and he's already got 67 this year. Any guesses on when his arm will conk out ? 100 ? 125 ? 150 ?

Kopech pitched 0 innings the last 2 years . He's at 31 now and some people here are expecting him to take Rodon's spot in the rotation at some point in the 2nd half.

 I don't have a clue how many innings Crochet can pitch. All I know about him is he hasn't thrown a single pitch 100 MPH  when last year every other pitch was at 100. If he's dialed it back to prevent injury I'm all for it since he's been effective. The Sox just said last week they are going to try Crochet now for over 1 inning at a time. That decision in itself  can be a separate thread of opinions when you weigh if he can become a future starting pitcher vs. winning a World Series vs. keeping him healthy.

Edited June 14, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Perfect Vision]

Assuming the Sox don't trade anyone on the MLB roster, they simply don't have a "headliner" to be able to make a big trade.  I expect Sheets, Adolfo and one of Thompson or Dahlquist to be traded for one or more depth pieces.  I don't think Burger will be traded this year.

[GreenSox]

Marte is obviously better than what we have.  But I'm not a "career year" guy because that will entail a career year price.  He's all batting average.  
Adam Frazier, same thing.  Career year, all batting average.
It doesn't suggest sustainability. Maybe it can sustain through the rest of the year, but maybe not. 
And coupled with my admitted bias of being very wary of this FO in trades for veterans (due to its sorry history in such trades) I'll pass on most of these.   But if the FO can  pull one of for the right price, then  okay.
Now Escobar is not having a career year; but what he is doing well, is something that the Sox need:  homers.
 

Edited June 14, 2021 by GreenSox

[maloney.adam]

10 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Assuming the Sox don't trade anyone on the MLB roster, they simply don't have a "headliner" to be able to make a big trade.  I expect Sheets, Adolfo and one of Thompson or Dahlquist to be traded for one or more depth pieces.  I don't think Burger will be traded this year.

Stiever or Kelley?

[maloney.adam]

I think the Sox will trade for atleast a reliever and one quality bat. They need someone that can hit for power.