Sox @ Tigers, 6/13 12:10 ct

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, Nick_Schwam said:

Heuer K/Walk rate is actually impressive.

A lot of it came early in the season. I love what I’m seeing from the pen lately. Bummer has disgusting stuff. He will be fine.

Marshall has been pitching well and Heuer getting that confidence back will be huge.

Heuer throws great stuff, has control of it and gets hit.  Something there ain't right.

[Jerksticks]

2 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

Heuer throws great stuff, has control of it and gets hit.  Something there ain't right.

I thought he was unhittable last year.  He’s basically a rookie too.  Not a bad floor to start from if that’s the case?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Goodwin might have caught that 

 When TLR had Vaughn pinch hit for Goodwin in the 5th, I was thinking it was kind of a backwards move. I was like if Rodon still has a no hitter I'd rather have Goodwin in LF than Vaughn and also since there was a LHP at that moment I figured he wouldn't be on the mound very long and kind of strange to PH so early when Vaughn very well may be facing RHP after that 1 AB.

But it was a bit too early to be thinking about the no hitter. Sox had just taken a 2-0 lead in the 5th when Leury hit the double to drive in Mendick against the LHP  Alexander. So Leury on 2nd 1 out, TLR probably just wanted to get that run in from 2nd to get a 3 run lead. I doubt I'd pinch hit there . Even if Goodwin K's  Moncada is still up next or maybe he surprises and hits the guy and at least you leave the better fielder in the game and a LH to face RHP later in the game.

That hit was just the kind of hit I have been explaining why Vaughn's speed or lack of it matters so much in the OF. He can get good jumps and reads and do a lot of things right but never be more than a mediocre fielder because over time there will just be too many balls he cannot get to. It's why I always cringe when people start talking about Robert being flanked by Vaughn and Eloy. It's also why I'd give Engel more time than anyone else . He's the only one who can prove he can be a good fielder and a good hitter.

I know we have plenty of doubters but he has improved hitting every year for 3 years culminating last year with pretty good numbers against RHH  and so far in his AB's this year he looks good. He's got a short compact swing , drives the ball, and has HR and extra base power. He's like a poor mans Trout only has learned the craft of hitting much later and now needs a chance to prove he's more than a 4th OF.  Good defense in your good hitters matters a lot. It's one reason why Tampa Bay has played well. They lead the league in Outs Against Average. Guys like Betts who can do it all means they can contribute on the bases and in the field and they have hitting slumps.

 

[tray]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's why I always cringe when people start talking about Robert being flanked by Vaughn and Eloy.

Eloy is way faster than Vaughn.  He probably would have made that catch but then run into the wall.

TLR made the right decision to pinch hit because his priority is to win games, not preserve a no-hitter.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, tray said:

Eloy is way faster than Vaughn.  He probably would have made that catch but then run into the wall.

TLR made the right decision to pinch hit because his priority is to win games, not preserve a no-hitter.

He's faster but he gets the worst jumps of just about any OF around. He runs well once he gets going but a good OF also gets going quicker .

I'm not saying it was the wrong decision just one I wouldn't have done. Too early to pinch hit. Rodon was rolling along and still 4 innings to go to get more offense.  Leave the LHB Goodwin in the game to face the other RHP's who were bound to come into the game once Alexander left and leaving the better defender also comes into play when talking about winning the game.

[South Side Hit Men]

Andrew Vaughn is a better fielder than Brian Goodwin or Eloy Jimenez. Fangraphs statistics lay this out.

The first month in LF, Tony pulled him late to protect his confidence (hitting and fielding). However, the past month he has stayed in the entire game, and a few times was inserted late.

Tony himself said Andrew Vaughn is an above average OF.

Edited June 14, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Andrew Vaughn is a better fielder than Brian Goodwin or Eloy Jimenez. Fangraphs statistics lay this out.

The first month in LF, Tony pulled him late to protect his confidence (hitting and fielding). However, the past month he has stayed in the entire game, and a few times was inserted late.

Tony himself said Andrew Vaughn is an above average OF.

Just thinking here, how many OF's on the team get that ball?  Hamilton and Engel anyway.  Garcia maybe.  This Eaton no, his former self yes.  Lamb ?  Mendick?  Assume Goodwin or not?

[tray]

I

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Andrew Vaughn is a better fielder than Brian Goodwin or Eloy Jimenez. Fangraphs statistics lay this out.

 

 The extrapolation of selected data that  a Fangraph contributor or contributors drew from Vaughn's limited innings in the outfield is rather lame.  Baseball fans refer to that as a small sample size. Then there is potential bias by those who use data to draw conclusions and promote them.

Vaughn lacks the speed and reach of other outfielders. He may be statistically  better at catching balls than other players because he simply doesn't get to a lot of them.   You can't drop 'em if you can't get to 'em.  Goodwin may have gotten to that ball but we will never know, and nether will Carlos Rodon.  Nevertheless, as mentioned in another thread, Vaughn is in the outfield primarily because of his bat, just like Eloy was. He needs to hit like Eloy if he wants to stay out there, especially after  Eloy and Robert come back. 

LaRussa is giving Vaughn and Mercedes every chance to show that they can hit and belong on the roster. So far they have been doing pretty well, but there are a lot of games left in the season.  Fans quickly can turn on under-performing players..

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, tray said:

I

 

 The extrapolation of selected data that  a Fangraph contributor or contributors drew from Vaughn's limited innings in the outfield is rather lame.  Baseball fans refer to that as a small sample size. Then there is potential bias by those who use data to draw conclusions and promote them.

Vaughn lacks the speed and reach of other outfielders. He may be statistically  better at catching balls than other players because he simply doesn't get to a lot of them.   You can't drop 'em if you can't get to 'em.  Goodwin may have gotten to that ball but we will never know, and nether will Carlos Rodon.  Nevertheless, as mentioned in another thread, Vaughn is in the outfield primarily because of his bat, just like Eloy was. He needs to hit like Eloy if he wants to stay out there, especially after  Eloy and Robert come back. 

LaRussa is giving Vaughn and Mercedes every chance to show that they can hit and belong on the roster. So far they have been doing pretty well, but there are a lot of games left in the season.  Fans quickly can turn on under-performing players..

Yes, go with you're eyeball assessment over years of data for Goodwin, or all the data available for the entire careers of Eloy and Andrew.

There is one thing "lame" in this discussion, and it's not what I presented.

Doubt at this point whether you truly believe or understand anything you type here.