Quin Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 We can start a new Escobar thread or re-open this one when there's new smoke around that rumor. Until then, this thread is far too gone to remain open. Edit: Removed the Donaldson comments, try to keep this thread in some way, shape or form on Escobar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 14 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: It's called "Fox News" these days. Aren't politics are against the rules? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 minute ago, raBBit said: Aren't politics are against the rules? You are correct. I will delete the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) How much can this guy realistically cost? He was pretty pedestrian last year. Who knows if he will revert back to mediocrity during this season. He's an aging, half year rental. I can't see it costing that much. Edited June 30, 2021 by ron883 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 19 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said: Can't bring up Burger without Fry. Hope Arizona throws in Seth Beer as well, would be a perfect meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, ron883 said: How much can this guy realistically cost? He was pretty pedestrian last year. Who knows if he will revert back to mediocrity during this season. He's an aging, half year rental. I can't see it costing that much. Plus despite the prevailing mood of this message board we're not really that desperate. We're in first place, about to enter a long run of games against struggling teams, and the timetable on Eloy and Robert's return seems to keep moving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 At some point I expect this to either be a deal where we don't give up much and it turns into a "wow, that shouldn't have taken that long" type of deal or a wild-ass deal where the Sox send the Dbacks a package built around Madrigal++ and take on Bumgarner for Marte and we're all just left here confused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 29 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Plus despite the prevailing mood of this message board we're not really that desperate. We're in first place, about to enter a long run of games against struggling teams, and the timetable on Eloy and Robert's return seems to keep moving up. Sox are last in the majors in homers since June 12th with only 8. Schwarber has 15 during that time. Sox are very desperate for offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, fathom said: Sox are last in the majors in homers since June 12th with only 8. Schwarber has 15 during that time. Sox are very desperate for offense. Amen. I know we have a lot of posters all with different takes and biases but facts are facts. They need more HR's. Can't keep kicking the can down the road. That's management type talk. We should always want professional hitters who can also provide some options for their use like Escobar. A 3 run HR can put you instantly back into a game instead of wondering with 2 men on when the next GB double play is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Amen. I know we have a lot of posters all with different takes and biases but facts are facts. They need more HR's. Can't keep kicking the can down the road. That's management type talk. We should always want professional hitters who can also provide some options for their use like Escobar. A 3 run HR can put you instantly back into a game instead of wondering with 2 men on when the next GB double play is coming. The question wasn't whether it's good to have more professional hitters, or whether we would be better if we hit more home runs, or whether 3 run HRs are important. Those aren't real questions. Obviously we can use more offense (like all teams can) especially during a brutal stretch of injury, and is the reason we're likely to go out and get Escobar or someone like him. The question was whether our situation is so objectively desperate to outsiders that it should require us to overpay for a somewhat inconsistent rental like Eduardo Escobar. The answer is we aren't. Probably no first-place team is, but particularly not one with its injured players scheduled to come back in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Little Cespy should be moved up a notch in the Minors based on his first few games. Maybe he eventually gets to the major league club later this year. Eloy/Robert/Cespy outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, tray said: Little Cespy should be moved up a notch in the Minors based on his first few games. Maybe he eventually gets to the major league club later this year. Eloy/Robert/Cespy outfield. Not gonna happen this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: The question wasn't whether it's good to have more professional hitters, or whether we would be better if we hit more home runs, or whether 3 run HRs are important. Those aren't real questions. Obviously we can use more offense (like all teams can) especially during a brutal stretch of injury, and is the reason we're likely to go out and get Escobar or someone like him. The question was whether our situation is so objectively desperate to outsiders that it should require us to overpay for a somewhat inconsistent rental like Eduardo Escobar. The answer is we aren't. Probably no first-place team is, but particularly not one with its injured players scheduled to come back in a few weeks. A few weeks ? Maybe 6 weeks or more is a few weeks to you but not to me. So we disagree that the Sox aren't desperate. That's fine by me. I want better players who hit more HR's and pitchers who perform better in the pen asap. I want that to win as many games as possible because I appear to be one of the very few who actually wants to win enough games to secure a home field advantage throughout the playoffs. The one thing I know so far the Sox have been good at home. They are not good on the road. They are not good against. 500 or better teams. They don't hit any HR's and the bullpen is faltering. Making deals mid-season is the same as it has ever been. Contenders need help and pretenders want to get as much as they can for impending Free agents. There is a bit of desperation on both sides. The contender wants to pay as little as they can knowing they need him while the pretender has to figure out the difference between losing that player for nothing and maximizing his value. None of that concerns me . I don't make the trades. I don't have to worry if another team thinks we are desperate . As a fan I think the Sox need help badly. Call it whatever you want too. The semantics don't interest me. Edited June 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: None of that concerns me . I don't make the trades. I don't have to worry if another team thinks we are desperate . As a fan I think the Sox need help badly. Call it whatever you want too. The semantics don't interest me. That's fine, but I suspect many fans do care what the Sox pay for a rental since it directly impacts the team's future. I for one hope they give away as little as possible. I'm pretty confident that the FO will recognize that it can credibly negotiate from a position of strength and will make a smart move rather than a panicky one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Maybe hold your horses and see how the next few weeks pans out. the Sox should be able to play ,500 + baseball against the Twins and Detroit and make it to the All Star break in pretty good shape. At that point more players will be available from teams that throw in the towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: A few weeks ? Maybe 6 weeks or more is a few weeks to you but not to me. So we disagree that the Sox aren't desperate. That's fine by me. I want better players who hit more HR's and pitchers who perform better in the pen asap. I want that to win as many games as possible because I appear to be one of the very few who actually wants to win enough games to secure a home field advantage throughout the playoffs. The one thing I know so far the Sox have been good at home. They are not good on the road. They are not good against. 500 or better teams. They don't hit any HR's and the bullpen is faltering. Making deals mid-season is the same as it has ever been. Contenders need help and pretenders want to get as much as they can for impending Free agents. There is a bit of desperation on both sides. The contender wants to pay as little as they can knowing they need him while the pretender has to figure out the difference between losing that player for nothing and maximizing his value. None of that concerns me . I don't make the trades. I don't have to worry if another team thinks we are desperate . As a fan I think the Sox need help badly. Call it whatever you want too. The semantics don't interest me. I know we disagree on this but it all needs to be weighed against how much of the future they need to sacrifice to make the playoffs this year. If it looks like they can squeak by while Jimenez, Robert and kopech return, I'm all for not trading significant players for this year. This should not be a one and done rebuild. The whole plan of the 5 year rebuild was to have a consistent winning team to have many shots at the playoffs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: I know we disagree on this but it all needs to be weighed against how much of the future they need to sacrifice to make the playoffs this year. If it looks like they can squeak by while Jimenez, Robert and kopech return, I'm all for not trading significant players for this year. This should not be a one and done rebuild. The whole plan of the 5 year rebuild was to have a consistent winning team to have many shots at the playoffs. This, and it’s been sold as a multi championship window, not a multi playoff window. You don’t dump core pieces to try and get an extra home game in a single year playoffs. If you can acquire players for taking on contracts, fine. If the Sox are too cheap and give up players for teams to eat money, than no, JR is not serious this year or beyond. The only money he’s committing is buying out minority shareholders. They weren’t serious last year when Dyson was the lone acquisition on a good team that had 2-3 starting pitching holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Joc Pederson may be back in play by the end of the week if the Cubs get swept...Bryant as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrankinSox Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said: Joc Pederson may be back in play by the end of the week if the Cubs get swept...Bryant as well and Kimbrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: That's fine, but I suspect many fans do care what the Sox pay for a rental since it directly impacts the team's future. I for one hope they give away as little as possible. I'm pretty confident that the FO will recognize that it can credibly negotiate from a position of strength and will make a smart move rather than a panicky one. And that's what Hahn meant when he said they have to discover if the juice is worth the squeeze. He also said winning is sacred and we will treat it as such. We can b**** and moan all we want about who the Sox give up or if they paid too much for a 1 shot deal at winning now. That's what all the discussion was about when trading for Lynn , Shields and Samardzija . In the end it doesn't really matter. What's done is done. There wasn't any bitching going on about Tatis in the deal for Shields. It was all pretty much that Shields sucked. The point is with prospects you never quite know if that throw-in becomes something or if the great prospect flops. While I might also have an opinion on who the Sox give up is too much or too little it has no bearing once the deal is done. Dunning was given up supposedly to give the Sox a chance to win the World Series this year. Some hated it some loved it. If that is truly the goal I would feel a lot better about that trade if Hahn does what is necessary to continue that goal. Hahn won't panic but like the rest of us doesn't have a clue on who turns out to be a good prospect and who doesn't . He can only use the info he has just as we do. Its a hard situation to be in as a GM. Basically anything you do that doesn't result in winning the World Series this year mean you lost the trade if all you are getting is rentals. The odds are against you from the get go. Was Lynn worth it if the Sox don't win the World Series ? Will any rental be worth it ? If the sum of trading for rentals ends up a 0 .How can you possibly hope to give up 0 in return ? It's impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 29 minutes ago, ptatc said: I know we disagree on this but it all needs to be weighed against how much of the future they need to sacrifice to make the playoffs this year. If it looks like they can squeak by while Jimenez, Robert and kopech return, I'm all for not trading significant players for this year. This should not be a one and done rebuild. The whole plan of the 5 year rebuild was to have a consistent winning team to have many shots at the playoffs. I don't mind disagreements when they are fair and you are not one to put words in my mouth. Do I trust the Sox that they can make the playoffs in 7 or 8 of the next 10 years? Hell no . I don't trust them enough to think they can do it next year. If they are going to keep trading youth for guys like Lynn they have no shot at sustaining success. I liked the Dunning/Lynn trade because it was a signal that the Sox were serious about this year. Now all of a sudden there are fans that act like this year isn't that important because of the future ? If that is the case why would the Sox ever trade 6 years of a good prospect for a rental ? It didn't work with Samardzija and people think the Sox brass has turned over a new leaf ? If they have I'm not seeing it since they did the same thing trading for Lynn. Does everyone want to put their trust in Reinsdorf all of a sudden and trust injury prone guys like Eloy , Robert and Madrigal to stay healthy enough to win in the future ? I'm not buying it . I never will. I have seen enough in his years as owner to know that the latest carrot he is dangling is the promise of the future . He got us to wait for a rebuild and now its wait for the future again. Pretty soon 15 years go by and the carrot is still dangling out of reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Apparently on The Score Ozzie said the talks are not as far along as has been reported. He has some connection to Escobar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Fans whining about ownership not spending enough money is pretty lame. I see Cub fans questioning Joe Ricketts about why he didn't sign Schwarber for 9 Million. Ownership takes many things into consideration when signing players to big contracts. They don't just keep spending and spending to satisfy the hunger of rabid fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Amen. I know we have a lot of posters all with different takes and biases but facts are facts. They need more HR's. Can't keep kicking the can down the road. That's management type talk. We should always want professional hitters who can also provide some options for their use like Escobar. A 3 run HR can put you instantly back into a game instead of wondering with 2 men on when the next GB double play is coming. Madrigal was just heating up with the long ball when he got hurt. Our luck has been for crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, poppysox said: Madrigal was just heating up with the long ball when he got hurt. Our luck has been for crap. I don't expect HR's from Madrigal but now that he's out there is an opportunity to get HR's from that position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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