Heyman: Sox interested in someone on some team. Nightengale: *nods*

[hi8is]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Also, mentioned Orioles' outfielder Santander for RF, but not tied in to the White Sox specifically.

Love that guy.

[raBBit]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, I think they resign Lynn and let Rodon go.  If QOs still exist in the new CBA then I see them offering Rodon that, but he only returns if he’s willing to accept it.

 Ultimately that means you have a rotation of Lynn, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, & Keuchel next year with Crochet hopefully moving into a swingman role.  If all works well, Garrett would replace Dallas in 2023.

Don't rule out Keuchel's vesting option hitting for 2023 ?

3 hours ago, bmags said:

I think it is more that Sox fans watch the sox and don’t realize how shit the league is offensively this year.

I agree and good point. 

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Leury Garcia, and worrying about this when there is a < 1% chance you'll need a 3rd catcher is pointless.

Seriously without extra innings you can lose your DH and still pinch hit your way through the game. Sox should be playing Collins against righties more. While Abreu has come a long way defensively at 1B and really is a source of comfort over there, putting Yaz at 1B and Abreu at DH when Collins catches against RHP is the best course for the team. 

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

Love that guy.

Sox checked in with Baltimore on Santander when Robert went down. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Josh Rojas would be an interesting option if Arizona would be willing to be open to moving him. Young guy who hits lefty so would help with the right handed issues, and could be a decent piece the next few years.

[Lillian]

 

Since this thread is a discussion about Escobar, it might be interesting to flesh out the details of how it could look. If Eloy and Robert are both back in time for the Post Season, here are potential lineups, with Escobar. Having 3 switch hitters staggered throughout the middle of the order would be a nice advantage, in late inning match ups, when the opposing manager has to go to the pen:

 

VERSUS RHP:

 

SS  Anderson     RH

3B  Moncada      SH

1B  Abreu           RH

2B  Escobar       SH

DH  Eloy             RH

C    Grandal        SH

CF  Robert          RH

LF   Lamb           LH

RF  Goodwin or Eaton LH

 

VERSUS LHP:

 

SS  Anderson     RH

3B  Moncada      SH

1B  Abreu           RH

DH  Eloy             RH

C    Grandal        SH

CF  Robert          RH

2B  Escobar       SH 

LF  Vaughn         RH

RF  Engel            RH

Edited June 17, 2021 by Lillian

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

38 minutes ago, Lillian said:

 

Since this thread is a discussion about Escobar, it might be interesting to flesh out the details of how it could look. If Eloy and Robert are both back in time for the Post Season, here are potential lineups, with Escobar. Having 3 switch hitters staggered throughout the middle of the order would be a nice advantage, in late inning match ups, when the opposing manager has to go to the pen:

 

VERSUS RHP:

 

SS  Anderson     RH

3B  Moncada      SH

1B  Abreu           RH

2B  Escobar       SH

DH  Eloy             RH

C    Grandal        SH

CF  Robert          RH

LF   Lamb           LH

RF  Goodwin or Eaton LH

 

VERSUS LHP:

 

SS  Anderson     RH

3B  Moncada      SH

1B  Abreu           RH

DH  Eloy             RH

C    Grandal        SH

CF  Robert          RH

2B  Escobar       SH 

LF  Vaughn         RH

RF  Engel            RH

Ew.. Any lineup with Escobar batting 4th is gross.

[Lillian]

12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Ew.. Any lineup with Escobar batting 4th is gross.

Ok, so keeping in mind that the objective is to get some LH power inserted into the middle of the lineup. would you then flip Escobar and Gandal, vs. RH pitching? 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Lillian

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Ok, so keeping in mind that the objective is to get some LH power inserted into the middle of the lineup. would you then flip Escobar and Gandal, vs. RH pitching? 

I'd put Robert, Moncada 3, Abreu 4, Eloy 5. Escobar can bat 6 or 7 with Grandal. Neither of them should bat above the 4 mentioned 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, raBBit said:

Don't rule out Keuchel's vesting option hitting for 2023 ?

I agree and good point. 

Seriously without extra innings you can lose your DH and still pinch hit your way through the game. Sox should be playing Collins against righties more. While Abreu has come a long way defensively at 1B and really is a source of comfort over there, putting Yaz at 1B and Abreu at DH when Collins catches against RHP is the best course for the team.

Tony La Russa believes in bunting, 1st in the AL with 15 sacrifice hits. Tony La Russa eschews employing a defensive shift (29th in baseball, 2nd to last ahead of Colorado) or pinch hitting (22 total this season, 2nd to last ahead of Detroit’s 19).

I’m fine with catchers DHing, especially with Yermin on the roster. However, the priority must remain pairing the best catcher with the starter’s preference (Collins with Rodon and Giolito).

While the numbers may make sense to DH Abreu and play Grandal at 1B when Collins catches vs. RHP, I can’t see Tony messing with Abreu in any way. Jose doesn’t even want to take an inning off on a blowout, let alone an entire game, and Tony has to beg him to DH instead of play first, even when he is banged up. Jose worked/works very hard on his defense, and it paid off, so I would be leery in messing with what is working for the player and team.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Tony La Russa believes in bunting, 1st in the AL with 15 sacrifice hits. Tony La Russa eschews employing a defensive shift (29th in baseball, 2nd to last ahead of Colorado) or pinch hitting (22 total this season, 2nd to last ahead of Detroit’s 19).

I’m fine with catchers DHing, especially with Yermin on the roster. However, the priority must remain pairing the best catcher with the starter’s preference (Collins with Rodon and Giolito).

While the numbers may make sense to DH Abreu and play Grandal at 1B when Collins catches vs. RHP, I can’t see Tony messing with Abreu in any way. Jose doesn’t even want to take an inning off on a blowout, let alone an entire game, and Tony has to beg him to DH instead of play first, even when he is banged up. Jose worked/works very hard on his defense, and it paid off, so I would be leery in messing with what is working for the player and team.

Right, not unlike ideas of moving Moncada to 2nd and playing Burger at 3rd...btw, Burgatron just hit his 8th homer for Charlotte.

(And Wright has been doing quite well for them too, 2.38 ERA is like 1.38 in any other park.)

Edited June 18, 2021 by caulfield12

[Chick Mercedes]

On 6/16/2021 at 6:11 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not sure the Sox have any major prospects left. 2 of their top 10 haven't even played yet in Cespedes and Norge Vera.

They don’t. Kelly is it, and they would be selling too low right now. All they have are guys like Lambert and Stiever.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:35 PM, Tony said:

I’m not convinced the Sox need a replacement at 2B right now, I really believe Mendick can do the job. 

The Sox are 37-6 when they hit a HR this season, and I do think that stat does have some significance. 

I think Schwarber could be had for less than Frazier and probably a similar package to Escobar. Him being a LH power bat also gives this lineup a little more balance, and would really be some nice insurance when guys get back. 

 

On 6/16/2021 at 5:05 PM, chw42 said:

Schwarber makes way more sense than Escobar IMO. Escobar hits lefties better than righties, which isn't what this team really needs. Schwarber fits the lineup better and he can also play a passable corner OF, which Escobar can't do. 

 Schwarber only plays LF. Schwarber is Eloy like in LF . This year alone he has a -4  OAA which is about as bad as you are going to find in the amount of games played so far this year. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. was the only one I could find worse.

Escobar is a switch hitter who hits LHP  better than RH it's true. But lets not forget he has hit more HR's than Schwarber this year. He can also provide defensive and base running value that Schwarber can't. Schwarber slightly better offensively because of higher OBP.

Player value according to fWAR puts Schwarber at .8 and Escobar at 1.4. I'll take the better baseball player .

Escobar would play almost every inning of every game due to switch hitting ,defensive and base running ability through the playoffs. If you make the World Series Sox lose the DH in NL park  who would you rather have then Schwarber or Escobar ?

Can you say the same for Schwarber with his terrible defense when you already have Eloy in the OF ( That's going to happen whether we like it or not) Robert, Engel , Goodwin and Leury ? Let's please just have one terrible OF and one mediocre OF with Vaughn defensively. The rest of them I'd prefer them above average defensively. Preventing runs means just as much as getting them.

Edit: I forgot one other thing in Escobar's favor. If we lose Moncada at 3rd base he is a quality replacement there too.

Edited June 18, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Two-Gun Pete]

40 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

 Schwarber only plays LF. Schwarber is Eloy like in LF . This year alone he has a -4  OAA which is about as bad as you are going to find in the amount of games played so far this year. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. was the only one I could find worse.

Escobar is a switch hitter who hits LHP  better than RH it's true. But lets not forget he has hit more HR's than Schwarber this year. He can also provide defensive and base running value that Schwarber can't. Schwarber slightly better offensively because of higher OBP.

Player value according to fWAR puts Schwarber at .8 and Escobar at 1.4. I'll take the better baseball player .

Escobar would play almost every inning of every game due to switch hitting ,defensive and base running ability through the playoffs. If you make the World Series Sox lose the DH in NL park  who would you rather have then Schwarber or Escobar ?

Can you say the same for Schwarber with his terrible defense when you already have Eloy in the OF ( That's going to happen whether we like it or not) Robert, Engel , Goodwin and Leury ? Let's please just have one terrible OF and one mediocre OF with Vaughn defensively. The rest of them I'd prefer them above average defensively. Preventing runs means just as much as getting them.

Schwarber has the same -2 DRS that Vaughn has at LF. Ya know, the new hotshot rookie who's supposed to be much better than Schwarber and Eloy at defense? Schwarber has a former Catcher's arm, while Vaughn has a 1st baseman's arm.

That aside, Vaughn has a 94 wrc+, vs. Schwarber's 110.  Versus RHP, Vaughn has an AMEMIC 36 wrc+, whereas Schwarber has a 114 wrc+. IOW, Vaughn is part of this team's problem, while Schwarber could be part of a solution for 2021.

Schwarber is a lefty bat, Vaughn is a righty.

 

Now, I don't discount "switch hitting ,defensive and base running ability" at all. But what THIS roster desperately needs is offense vs. RHP, IMO. Of the two options, I'd rather have Schwarber + Mendick in the lineup most days/Vaughn in Charlotte over Vaughn + Escobar in the lineup most days. ESPECIALLY vs. RHP, given the rest of this roster.

All this said, I wouldn't turn my nose up at acquiring Escobar, since I don't believe in Mendick or Beckham as solutions for this year's team. But if it was a choice between Escobar or Schwarber, I'd take Schwarber. Heck, we could use both, if the cost wasn't prohibitive.

  

YMMV.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

 

double post

Edited June 18, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Chicago White Sox]

The Marlins are now 8.5 games out of a playoff spot, go get Starling Marte to solve our OF problem.  He should be our #1 priority.

Then go get Escobar to help with our 2B problem.  I like Mendick, but banking on him remaining a league average hitter is a risk we don’t need to take.  Let’s have both and actually have depth / options.

Throw in a RH setup man and let’s be favorites heading into the playoffs.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Chicago White Sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Schwarber has the same -2 DRS that Vaughn has at LF. Ya know, the new hotshot rookie who's supposed to be much better than Schwarber and Eloy at defense? Schwarber has a former Catcher's arm, while Vaughn has a 1st baseman's arm.

That aside, Vaughn has a 94 wrc+, vs. Schwarber's 110.  Versus RHP, Vaughn has an AMEMIC 36 wrc+, whereas Schwarber has a 114 wrc+. IOW, Vaughn is part of this team's problem.

Schwarber is a lefty bat, Vaughn is a righty.

 

Now, I don't discount "switch hitting ,defensive and base running ability" at all. But what THIS roster desperately needs is offense vs. RHP. Of the two options, I'd rather have Schwarber + Mendick, with Vaughn in Charlotte over Vaughn and Escobar. ESPECIALLY vs. RHP, given the rest of this roster. Now, I wouldn't turn my nose up at acquiring Escobar, but if it was between Escobar or Schwarber, I'd take Schwarber. Heck, we could use both, really.

 

YMMV.

You notice I hardly said a thing about Vaughn because it would be the same thing you said so using that against me isn't exactly saying anything against my argument.

As I said Eloy will be playing LF whether we like it or not. Everyone may wish otherwise but if you want the best possible lineup throughout the playoff and in the World Series where we lose the DH in NL parks Eloy will have to be playing LF . You can limit his usage in LF to avoid another injury while we have the DH .Eloy hits RHP well and you didn't even mention him.

Since the trade deadline is July 30th and Eloy is hopefully back by the middle of August it sounds like you are advocating Schwarber for about a 2 week period. I think this is where our difference in preference lie.

Escobar against RHP in 2021 : 10 HR , .236. BA, .288 OBP, .447 slg., .736 OPS

Schwarber vs. RHP in 2021:  12 HR , .234 BA . 296 Slg. 506 slg . .802. OPS

So yes if you want to look at just one thing like hitting against RHP Schwarber is better .

But if you want to look at how often Escobar would play vs how often Schwarber would play  plus the base running defense and ability of Escobar to play 3rd and also improves the Sox against LHP . I don't understand how anyone could pick Schwarber over Escobar.

Escobar vs LHP: 5 HR , .273 BA, .314 OBP, .530 SLg. , .845 OPS. Escobar is more likely to help against both LHP and RHP

Schwarber /LHP: 1 HR , .218 BA., .371OBP .309 Slg., . 681 OPS.

Frankly I'm tired of adding DH types who won't even help you in the World Series unless it's PH. Escobar can contribute in multiple ways hitting RH or LH  , Fielding , injury replacement at 3rd, baserunning  and defense. If Moncada goes down Schwarber cannot replace him. Escobar can. That alone should make him more valuable than Schwarber .

 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You notice I hardly said a thing about Vaughn because it would be the same thing you said so using that against me isn't exactly saying anything against my argument.

 

You made the erroneous argument that if an OFer were here, that Vaughn would stay. Actually, Vaughn would probably have to go, if an OFer were added. You also made the erroneous argument that Schwarber's defense is unplayable; Actually, Schwarber and Vaughn are equals in terms of DRS.

I mean, its a 36 WRC+ for Vaughn vs RHP. At an almost-entirely offensive position in LF. Hell, Mendick's WRC+ vs. RHP is 123 in a SSS. Vaughn is killing this offense right now. Add into the mix the uncertain availability of Eaton, and now the OF situation looks desperate.

 

Insofar as Escobar goes, he has qualities, but most of what this team needs isn't what Escobar mostly has right now. In the middle IF, we already have 3  of the top 4 MI available [Anderson, Garcia and Mendick], whereas in the OF, this org is down to the #4, 5, 6, and 7 OFers [Engel, Garcia, Vaughn, and Lamb]. I'd take Escobar, but I'd prefer Schwarber because this lineup is more deficient in the OF than in the MI right now.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[harkness99]

wrong thread!

Edited June 19, 2021 by harkness99

[ron883]

@Orlando where you at brother? It's been a while. It's hot stove season!!

[CentralChamps21]

Schwarber would be the perfect guy to get if there were a risk of falling out of contention before Eloy comes back. That is not the case, of course, so there's really no room for him.

2B is a spot that needs to be filled whether it be now or later, so might as well do it now.

[pcq]

I really doubt the Sox are planning to deploy Eloy in LF even if it made sense. 

[Pal]

12 minutes ago, pcq said:

I really doubt the Sox are planning to deploy Eloy in LF even if it made sense. 

Wager?

[Dick Allen]

Not Cishek deleted his tweet about Escobar trade not being announced late at night the day he had off, because it wasn't a big enough trade. He also has a tweet we're his"source" asked him to remove a few tweets so he or she would stay out of trouble. He obviously had zero info on this, and even if he was telling the truth, that would mean his source has dried up. He would have been better off just telling the world he was wrong.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Not Cishek deleted his tweet about Escobar trade not being announced late at night the day he had off, because it wasn't a big enough trade. He also has a tweet we're his"source" asked him to remove a few tweets so he or she would stay out of trouble. He obviously had zero info on this, and even if he was telling the truth, that would mean his source has dried up. He would have been better off just telling the world he was wrong.

Yup, instead he’s going to pout about how mean Twitter is for calling him out for being a fraud.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, instead he’s going to pout about how mean Twitter is for calling him out for being a fraud.

Again.

[Tnetennba]

wrong thread 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Tnetennba