Hahn: Too early to know if Sox will be buyers

[MiddleCoastBias]

4 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I think Hahn has to trade sheets this deadline, he is 25 and his value will only go down, nobody gives up anything for a 26 or 27 year old AAA player and thus Hahn should actively try to get rid of him. Same really applies to burger, I know it is a great story he is back but he is 26 and could have a career ending injury soon. Stiever also is 24 and doesn't have a high upside or a role as a starter. 

 

So that is 3 guys on the way down that he can get rid off without really hurting the system. 

I would keep the young pitchers, Bailey and also Rutherford as he could at least become a 4th outfielder but sheets, burger and Stiever are totally blocked and at an age where their value goes down even if they perform in the minors. 

I'm genuinely surprised we haven't really seen Sheets yet. Feel like this would be a great time to have him up and show him off in RF as showcase for other teams while also seeing what we have in him ourselves.

Unless they know he really can't play RF and we want to sell on what the other teams hear, not what they see.

[bmags]

40 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

I'm genuinely surprised we haven't really seen Sheets yet. Feel like this would be a great time to have him up and show him off in RF as showcase for other teams while also seeing what we have in him ourselves.

Unless they know he really can't play RF and we want to sell on what the other teams hear, not what they see.

I don’t think showcases are the point of the Sox anymore. 
 

I expect Sheets will be dealt for a reliever.

[wegner]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don’t think showcases are the point of the Sox anymore. 
 

I expect Sheets will be dealt for a reliever.

Would his current value just bring back a reliever who is just a short term rental or does he have more value than that in your opinion?

[Lillian]

Unless, and until Hahn makes a trade, here is what I'd like to see, versus RHP:

SS  Anderson

3B  Moncada

1B  Abreu

C    Grandal

DH Lamb

2B  T. Beckham

RF  Goodwin

LF  Vaughn

CF  Engel

One note of caution, although Beckham has been hitting RHP fairly well, of the 5 homers, in the last 3 games, only one came off a RH pitcher. However, he has hit 5 of his season's total 9 homers off of RH pitching, so that is encouraging. He has 8 this month, in just 12 games, which is a really torrid pace. If he stays hot, he will almost certainly get called up, which would trigger his MLB salary. He could add some punch to the lineup, while playing acceptable defense at second base. If you don't care about "handedness," he's an obvious quick, in house option.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lillian

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, pcq said:

Eloy will have a short career if he stays in LF.  If you are pro-life he will harm fewer people at DH. 

Let's get real right now. Once Eloy is back in the lineup he will be playing LF often. There is just no way around it. He is a way better hitter than Vaughn against RHP. Now of course Eloy will play some DH maybe even half his games or more in the beginning while he readjusts to playing. If the Sox want the best lineup against LHP then Vaughn should play LF while Eloy DH's.

The best lineup against RHP ,which is most of the time, will be Eloy in LF and Vaughn on the bench. I would also think Vaughn would play LF against select RHP with Eloy DHing but that won't happen too often once Eloy is re-acclimated. The only way this scenario plays out differently will be if Vaughn starts mashing RHP in the time left before Eloy returns. I would love for this to happen because player improvement in a top prospect can only mean good things for the Sox moving forward.

[bmags]

3 hours ago, wegner said:

Would his current value just bring back a reliever who is just a short term rental or does he have more value than that in your opinion?

I find providing cost on mid tier guys on trades hard but I feel like sheets is similar to Ryan Cordell who better Soria. I think he should be able to get us a good RHP reliever but yea a .5-1.5 year guy.

Hard to look for those guys honestly. Weird year so far. I sorta like that Colorado set up guy.

[Lillian]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

I find providing cost on mid tier guys on trades hard but I feel like sheets is similar to Ryan Cordell who better Soria. I think he should be able to get us a good RHP reliever but yea a .5-1.5 year guy.

Hard to look for those guys honestly. Weird year so far. I sorta like that Colorado set up guy.

Yes, and with the crack down on sticky substance coming, it will be equally hard to evaluate the value of any pitcher. Maybe we need to wait until then, to acquire an arm for the pen. However, if there are some guys who don't appear to have been using anything, they might represent good value. Looking at their spin rate history would be a potential way to determine that.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Let's get real right now. Once Eloy is back in the lineup he will be playing LF often. There is just no way around it. He is a way better hitter than Vaughn against RHP. Now of course Eloy will play some DH maybe even half his games or more in the beginning while he readjusts to playing. If the Sox want the best lineup against LHP then Vaughn should play LF while Eloy DH's.

The best lineup against RHP ,which is most of the time, will be Eloy in LF and Vaughn on the bench. I would also think Vaughn would play LF against select RHP with Eloy DHing but that won't happen too often once Eloy is re-acclimated. The only way this scenario plays out differently will be if Vaughn starts mashing RHP in the time left before Eloy returns. I would love for this to happen because player improvement in a top prospect can only mean good things for the Sox moving forward.

Eloy has proven he cannot play LF without injuring himself. I am not sure what games you were watching.

[EloyJenkins]

7 minutes ago, pcq said:

Eloy has proven he cannot play LF without injuring himself. I am not sure what games you were watching.

One thing I am hoping is that with all the rehab...he got a good diet going and dropped 10-15 lbs. he needs that IF they have any intention of playing him out there. 

[knightni]

33 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

One thing I am hoping is that with all the rehab...he got a good diet going and dropped 10-15 lbs. he needs that IF they have any intention of playing him out there. 

He could drop 100 pounds and still play LF like a cat on skates.

[heirdog]

I would love to pry Brad Hand from the Nationals.  Since Tony doesn't seem keen to run Hendriks into the ground with high usage...having dual closers from each side and slotting Bummer and Heuer down would be amazing.  And eventually, imagine a playoff where Heuer/Bummer handle low leverage, Kopech/Crochet mid leverage and Hand/Hendriks 8th and 9th...that is a lockdown bullpen.  And then anything we get from 2 of Foster/Burr/Ruiz/Marshall/Burdi is gravy.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

Eloy has proven he cannot play LF without injuring himself. I am not sure what games you were watching.

He's going to have to play LF. That's all there is to it. He will not be a full time DH no matter how much everyone wants it to happen. Wish for it all you want, hope and pray but I guess you missed the very 1st sentence in my post. Let's get real.

I watch the games and observe everything. You think I want him playing LF ? Nope I don't. There was not one part of my post that suggested I want it to happen.  So I don't know why you would ask me what games I was watching. Pay attention. But if you want the best hitting lineup possible he is going to be playing LF. Get used to it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[mqr]

1 hour ago, knightni said:

He could drop 100 pounds and still play LF like a cat on skates.

Idk, there was a point where scouts were saying he was a passable LF. That probably like 40 pounds ago. Would make sense if he was at one point tolerable and his body just outgrew his coordination

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 hours ago, Lillian said:

One note of caution, although Beckham has been hitting RHP fairly well, of the 5 homers, in the last 3 games, only one came off a RH pitcher. However, he has hit 5 of his season's total 9 homers off of RH pitching, so that is encouraging. He has 8 this month, in just 12 games, which is a really torrid pace. If he stays hot, he will almost certainly get called up, which would trigger his MLB salary. He could add some punch to the lineup, while playing acceptable defense at second base. If you don't care about "handedness," he's an obvious quick, in house option.

I think you're one of the more thoughtful posters here, and I respect that. But, I think you're overlooking the Coors Field-like YAWNING gap between Beckham's Home/Away splits. Its laughably easy to hit well in Truist Field, but much less so away from there.

To wit, Beckham's Home OPS this season: A MIGHTY .909;  Beckham's Away OPS this season: A putrid .706. SOURCE

 

Since he won't have the laughably easy task of hitting against Reynaldo Lopez-quality pitching opposition at a Coors Field-like setting if he were to be called up, I would imagine that Beckham's OPS would be more likely to be the putrid .706 OPS. [Likely, even less than that, since he'd be hitting against better opposition than he's seen in the IL.]

His splits aside, his OBP is sub .300 overall. Vs. AAAA types and Reynaldo Lopez-types and other walk machines. What would his OBP be in MLB? Sub .250? Beckham's OBP in AAA is less than Seby Zavala's. It's less than Zach Remillard's OBP. 

 

IMO, Tim Beckham isn't any sort of solution, although if he were, it would solve a lot of issues this TDL.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

One thing I am hoping is that with all the rehab...he got a good diet going and dropped 10-15 lbs. he needs that IF they have any intention of playing him out there. 

Couldn't hurt. I think I suggested that a while ago and used that highlight catch of his playing RF in the Futures game when he was younger and lighter.

[Lillian]

2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I think you're one of the more thoughtful posters here, and I respect that. But, I think you're overlooking the Coors Field-like YAWNING gap between Beckham's Home/Away splits. Its laughably easy to hit well in Truist Field, but much less so away from there.

To wit, Beckham's Home OPS this season: A MIGHTY .909;  Beckham's Away OPS this season: A putrid .706. SOURCE

 

Since he won't have the laughably easy task of hitting against Reynaldo Lopez-quality pitching opposition at a Coors Field-like setting if he were to be called up, I would imagine that Beckham's OPS would be more likely to be the putrid .706 OPS. [Likely, even less than that, since he'd be hitting against better opposition than he's seen in the IL.]

His splits aside, his OBP is sub .300 overall. Vs. AAAA types and Reynaldo Lopez-types and other walk machines. What would his OBP be in MLB? Sub .250? Beckham's OBP in AAA is less than Seby Zavala's. It's less than Zach Remillard's OBP. 

 

IMO, Tim Beckham isn't any sort of solution, although if he were, it would solve a lot of issues this TDL.

Thanks for your kind and cordial reply. I agree that it's not realistic to try to translate AAA performance, especially at the Knight's stadium, to the Majors, but it's worth noting that Beckham has a decent track record in the "show". Considering that he didn't play last year, I think now that he seems to have found his power stroke again, it's reasonable to hope that he could contribute at a level comparable to his last few seasons in the A.L. That would represent pretty good production, as a replacement for the injured Madrigal, without having to give up prospects. He has historically not been a high OBP guy, but he has put up decent Slugging Percentages. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lillian

[Lillian]

Beckham just homered again. This one off a RHP. That's his 10Th and 9TH in just 13 games, this month. I don't care in what stadium he hit them, or off which pitchers, that's impressive.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lillian

[Flash]

Just to be provocative, what about trading Vaughn, Eaton, Burdi and Lopez to the Reds for Winkler and Moustakis? Reds are desperate for relief pitching and would love to move Moustakis contract. Eaton and Lopez are expendable and help offset Moustakis' salary. Moustakis adds LH pop and can play a passable 2B. He should be off the DL sometime in July if not sooner (Mendick can hold the fort down until then). I know there are big Vaughn fans here and I'm one of them but Winkler and his LH bat gives us a much better chance to get the promised land in '21 and beyond. This is a win now move for the Sox.
Okay...time for the drive-by HaHa emojis.

[caulfield12]

52 minutes ago, Flash said:

Just to be provocative, what about trading Vaughn, Eaton, Burdi and Lopez to the Reds for Winkler and Moustakis? Reds are desperate for relief pitching and would love to move Moustakis contract. Eaton and Lopez are expendable and help offset Moustakis' salary. Moustakis adds LH pop and can play a passable 2B. He should be off the DL sometime in July if not sooner (Mendick can hold the fort down until then). I know there are big Vaughn fans here and I'm one of them but Winkler and his LH bat gives us a much better chance to get the promised land in '21 and beyond. This is a win now move for the Sox.
Okay...time for the drive-by HaHa emojis.

Winkler is one of the five hottest bats in the majors and cost controlled...at best, you get Senzel or India.

Vaughn’s the only player they would be interested in from the Sox names, but they’re also still paying Votto, thus blocking Vaughn from his best position.  And JR isnt going to absorb both Votto and the Castellanos or Moustakas deals simultaneously.

You’d have to add Crochet to Vaughn and at least one more pitcher in the minors, or Burger...if you’re really making a legit offer for Winkler.

You’d end up not getting full value for Vaughn or Crochet, and you’re forced to overpay for Winkler’s incredible season so far...Top 3-5 in NL MVP voting if held today.

Edited June 19, 2021 by caulfield12

[Flash]

There are variations on a Reds trade theme and I understand their not wanting to part with Winkler while they are still in the thick of things. I'd love to grab Castlellanos as a rental (opt out after '21...Boros client) but Winkler is so perfect. I also think the WS could really benefit from Moustakis' experience and LH bat....he can also play multiple positions and DH. I'm not sure what it might take to nab Winkler but, if your hypothetical addition of Crochet along w/Vaughn and the other names (Eaton and Lopez are salary offsets although Lopez might help down the stretch), I'd consider it. Adding Winkler and Moose to the lineup would be lethal....especially if it doesn't cost us any of our top 6 starters (inc. Kopech). I also expect the Reds to fall out of contention in the weeks ahead which might alter their thinking on player value.

[WBWSF]

After this Houston series the White  Sox have a easy schedule  all the way thru the All Star break. I wouldn't be surprised if Hahn didn't make any trades and just waited for Eloy and Robert  to come back.

 

 

 

s

[YourWhatHurts]

I would pursue a negotiation window with Starling Marte in a trade.  Maybe offer a bit more if you can get him to agree to a 2-year deal before the deal is finalized.  I'm not sure if it has ever been done before, but maybe put a stipulation in the contract that the Sox cannot make a QO after the 2022 season even if that option still exists in the next CBA.

I'd feel a lot better about this team with Marte coming here, and I'd feel a lot better about the deal if we could get him for another season.  Otherwise we should be trying to get Haniger.

The corner OF is a need area regardless.

Also, kind of related, Yerminator needs to go down to Charlotte.  The hitting skills are there but mentally he is just fucked.  The talent/ability is real but he's not getting to it.  Send him down, call up Burger or Sheets maybe for a showcase.

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I would pursue a negotiation window with Starling Marte in a trade.  Maybe offer a bit more if you can get him to agree to a 2-year deal before the deal is finalized.  I'm not sure if it has ever been done before, but maybe put a stipulation in the contract that the Sox cannot make a QO after the 2022 season even if that option still exists in the next CBA.

I'd feel a lot better about this team with Marte coming here, and I'd feel a lot better about the deal if we could get him for another season.  Otherwise we should be trying to get Haniger.

The corner OF is a need area regardless.

Also, kind of related, Yerminator needs to go down to Charlotte.  The hitting skills are there but mentally he is just fucked.  The talent/ability is real but he's not getting to it.  Send him down, call up Burger or Sheets maybe for a showcase.

You trade for him and then hope he enjoys being a part of a championship caliber ball club that he agrees to a reasonable extension.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Winkler is one of the five hottest bats in the majors and cost controlled...at best, you get Senzel or India.

Vaughn’s the only player they would be interested in from the Sox names, but they’re also still paying Votto, thus blocking Vaughn from his best position.  And JR isnt going to absorb both Votto and the Castellanos or Moustakas deals simultaneously.

You’d have to add Crochet to Vaughn and at least one more pitcher in the minors, or Burger...if you’re really making a legit offer for Winkler.

You’d end up not getting full value for Vaughn or Crochet, and you’re forced to overpay for Winkler’s incredible season so far...Top 3-5 in NL MVP voting if held today.

Look what you did . You got Flash calling him Winkler instead of Winker. Sunday ,Monday , Happy Days, Tuesday, Wednesday Happy Days ! The Fonz thanks you.

[kitekrazy]

I guess they could trade the season away with Rodon and Lynn.