The Offense - Near Term Actions

[Chicago White Sox]

It should be clear to pretty anyone that the offense is starting to show its cracks as we start to face better teams.  Over our last nine games against legit playoff contending teams (Blue Jays, Rays, & Astros), we have averaged a measly 3.56 runs per game.  If you exclude the Blue Jays series when we still had Madrigal, our runs per game drops to 3.17.  Either way, our recent offensive production has been bottom of baseball bad.

Obviously the hope is Eloy & Robert come back and solve two of our major holes.  The problem is there are a lot of games to be played between now and August and we’re only 3.5 games up on the Tribe.  Trades will likely happen, but even there it could be four or five weeks before we see any real action.  In the interim, the Sox would be smart to make some internal changes and try to optimize the offense as best as they can with what they have.  Here are my handful of ideas:

1. Option Yermin to Charlotte.  Since May 18th (the day after the infamous 3-0 homer), Mercedes has put up a .144/.215/.186/.401 slash line or 17 wRC+.  To say he’s been bad would be an understatement, but yet he continues to bat 5th most nights.  His bat is killing tons of opportunities for us with most of our best hitters batting in front of him and he’s been providing zero protection for Jose, who has fallen off during this time-frame (128 wRC+ before May 18th( a 95 since then).  For now, Yermin can’t be a part of this offense and he needs to find himself in AAA.
2. Start Collins regularly against RHP.  I don’t care if it’s at catcher or DH, but he & Grandal need to be in the lineup every time a righty on the mound.  Zack now has a 109 wRC+ against RHP and has looked much better at the plate as of late.  For a lineup in desperate need of power from the left-side, we can no longer afford to have Zack be limited to a backup catcher role.  Him & Grandal both need to be in the lineup against RHP, even if that means we risk losing the DH for a game in the event of injury.
3. Call up Jake Burger to DH against LHP.  Overall we still remain one of the best teams against lefties, but it’s very clear we’re trending in the wrong direction in that department.  Just in the last two weeks we’ve had Valdez hold us to two earned runs over 7, McClanahan hold us to two over 5, Skubal hold us to three over 6, Ryu hold us to three over 6, & Ray hold us to one over 6.1.  I get that some of these guys are pretty good pitchers, but we haven’t a big offensive game against a lefty in some time.  That’s where Jake can help.  As pointed out by @fathom, Burger has a ridiculous 1.362 OPS against lefties this year.  I get he’d be an untested rookie, but I think he’d be a big upgrade over what we’re currently getting against LHP and would add some much needed power to the lineup.  Plus he can fill at 3B when Yoan needs a breather here or there.
4. Play Vaughn Everyday in LF.  This one is going to be a bit counter-intuitive, but we need see what we got in the kid and figure out if he can work through his challenges against RHP.  He has been far & away our worst hitter against righties, posting a .487 OPS and 38 wRC+ on the season.  Right-handed pitchers are pummeling him down & away with sliders and he has yet to make the necessary adjustments.  This is not uncommon for young hitters, as we saw Eloy & Robert also chase too many sliders when they first came up, but Andrew will likely need consistent at-bats to figure his shit out.  Bat him near the bottom of the lineup against RHP for now and see how he responds.  He’s way too talented & smart of a hitter to force into a quasi platoon role and we definitely need him to take a big step forward in order to avoid having a third major hole in the lineup heading into the trade deadline.

What do you guys think of these ideas?  What would you differently?

[Two-Gun Pete]

50 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

1. Option Yermin to Charlotte.  
2. Start Collins regularly against RHP.  
3. Call up Jake Burger to DH against LHP.   @fathom, 
4. Play Vaughn Everyday in LF.  

1. Agreed. This should have happened already. Take TLR's automatic #5 hitter away from him.

2. Agreed.  If Collins has any value offensively, here's how he can show it. 

3. Agreed. I've probably been these boards biggest critic of Burger, given his lack of care and lack of effort in terms of taking care of his body. But, credit to him for learning the value of vegetables, and the need for cardio.

But to me, the true litmus test for Charlotte players is how they hit on the road.

Unlike, say Beckham, who's padded his stats at home, while sucking out loud on the road, Burger's been good on the road. Call him up.

4. I can't disagree more. LF is an almost-entirely offensive spot. This lineup sucls out loud vs. RHP. While its good that Vaughn can cromulently stand at LF, he's hurting this lineup, hes burning through his controllable years, and he's not developing right now, while putting up a 40ish WRC+ vs RHP.

For THIS YEAR'S team, for the betterment of FUTURE white sox  teams, for Vaughns future/development, and for general principle, ya GOTTA send Vaughn down, like NOW.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1. Agreed. This should have happened already. Take TLR's automatic #5 hitter away from him.

2. Agreed.  If Collins has any value offensively, here's how he can show it. 

3. Agreed. I've probably been these boards biggest critic of Burger, given his lack of care and lack of effort in terms of taking care of his body. But, credit to him for learning the value of vegetables, and the need for cardio.

But to me, the true litmus test for Charlotte players is how they hit on the road.

Unlike, say Beckham, who's padded his stats at home, while sucking out loud on the road, Burger's been good on the road. Call him up.

4. I can't disagree more. LF is an almost-entirely offensive spot. This lineup sucls out loud vs. RHP. While its good that Vaughn can cromulently stand at LF, he's hurting this lineup, hes burning through his controllable years, and he's not developing right now, while putting up a 40ish WRC+ vs RHP.

For THIS YEAR'S team, for the betterment of FUTURE white sox  teams, for Vaughns future/development, and for general principle, ya GOTTA send Vaughn down, like NOW.

The problem is who are you replacing Vaughn with?  Do you think starting Leury against RHP everyday is much better?  If we had other options, I’d love to give Andrew some development time in Charlotte and to claw back an extra year of team control, but I think we need to find a way to get him going or the offense is going to have too many holes to fill.

[Two-Gun Pete]

42 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The problem is who are you replacing Vaughn with?  Do you think starting Leury against RHP everyday is much better?  If we had other options, I’d love to give Andrew some development time in Charlotte and to claw back an extra year of team control, but I think we need to find a way to get him going or the offense is going to have too many holes to fill.

Andrew Vaughn's Splits Its a fucking 38 WRC+ vs RHP. 38. Hes ACTIVELY hurting this years team, full stop.

Leury Garcia's splits by WRC+, Leury's 83 vs RHP is more than TWICE than Andrew Vaughn's. Ya know, the guy that everyone is supposed to hate, is twice the batter Vaughn is right now v. RHP.

Jake Lamb's Splits 105 WRC+ vs. RHP. WTF isn't he in the lineup every day vs RHP?

Hell, just for grins and giggles, here's Nicky Demonico's career splits: 90 WRC+ vs RHP. Hes available, now that Cincy's cut him loose.

 

The point of posting all these splits is that it is ridiculously easy to find a (snicker) better than 38 WRC+, particularly at LF. There are already 2 or more better options in the roster, plus when Eaton returns, I'd guess that he'd be better than a 38 WRC+.

Then, you add a rental at/before the TDL who can do better than a 38 WRC+, then maybe either Eloy gets back, or Vaughn picks his head up and gets better at hitting. But right now? Vaughns actively hurting this team.

 

It is clear that this team's problem is offense, or else you wouldn't have started this thread.  It is painfully clear that this team's biggest offensive woes are vs RHP. Unfortunately, the biggest boat anchor vs RHP is Andrew Vaughn.

 

While we all believe in the young man's FUTURE, a "Win Now" season mandates that we worry about the future, IN the future to some degree. This org has asked him to do the impossible, in jumping up from A+ to the bigs, AND learn a new defensive position at the same time. There is no shame in admitting that now is not his day.

At the same time, I would hope that this org would not be blinded by their opinion of Vaughns future when determining HIS/This team's PRESENT. Again, he's hurting THIS team, future teams, and his future by being here right now and being completely overmatched at the plate vs RHP.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Andrew Vaughn's Splits Its a fucking 38 WRC+ vs RHP. 38. Hes ACTIVELY hurting this years team, full stop.

Leury Garcia's splits by WRC+, Leury's 83 vs RHP is more than TWICE than Andrew Vaughn's. Ya know, the guy that everyone is supposed to hate, is twice the batter Vaughn is right now v. RHP.

Jake Lamb's Splits 105 WRC+ vs. RHP. WTF isn't he in the lineup every day vs RHP?

Hell, just for grins and giggles, here's Nicky Demonico's career splits: 90 WRC+ vs RHP. Hes available, now that Cincy's cut him loose.

 

The point of posting all these splits is that it is ridiculously easy to find a (snicker) better than 38 WRC+, particularly at LF. There are already 2 or more better options in the roster, plus when Eaton returns, I'd guess that he'd be better than a 38 WRC+.

Then, you add a rental at/before the TDL who can do better than a 38 WRC+, then maybe either Eloy gets back, or Vaughn picks his head up and gets better at hitting. But right now? Vaughns actively hurting this team.

 

It is clear that this team's problem is offense, or else you wouldn't have started this thread.  It is painfully clear that this team's biggest offensive woes are vs RHP. Unfortunately, the biggest boat anchor vs RHP is Andrew Vaughn.

 

While we all believe in the young man's FUTURE, a "Win Now" season mandates that we worry about the future, IN the future to some degree. This org has asked him to do the impossible, in jumping up from A+ to the bigs, AND learn a new defensive position at the same time. There is no shame in admitting that now is not his day.

At the same time, I would hope that this org would not be blinded by their opinion of Vaughns future when determining HIS/This team's PRESENT. Again, he's hurting THIS team, future teams, and his future by being here right now and being completely overmatched at the plate vs RHP.

Lamb should be playing most days against RHP, but if the other corner OF spot comes down to Leury or Vaughn then I’ll easily roll the dice on Andrew.  Leury has been a 73 wRC+ hitter against RHP since 2018.  He is a known commodity and not of the good kind.  Vaughn struggling against sliders isn’t all that surprising and he’s not going to get better without being exposed to them on a regular basis.  Personally I don’t think that 38 wRC+ has any predictive merit and I’m willing to invest in him now with the hopes that he can become a league average or better hitter against RHP before years end.  His ceiling is worth gambling on IMO since it’s highly unlikely we’ll be adding three bats at the deadline.

[Tnetennba]

Is anyone in the dugout plugged in enough to make these smart  moves?  

[South Side Hit Men]

Tony is carefully managing Lamb’s playing time to take advantage of the most favorable matchups. If they tried playing him most games, both his hitting and lack of defense ability will be exposed.

Bottom line is this team is not going anywhere without Eloy, Robert and Abreu hitting at all cylinders. If Abreu is able regain some of his MVP form and connect with fastballs, and if Luis and Eloy can contribute at least near what they are capable upon their return, then this series will be just a blip and irrelevant when we are watching in October.

The more important concern coming out of this series is the pitching staff. Is Katz / Tony turnaround based on guys pitching with spider tack, and will they be able to put out good teams in October. Lynn, Keuchel, Cease were all owned this weekend. That is the main concern leaving Houston, IMO.
 

 

[YourWhatHurts]

Yermin has to go down.  The hitting skills are all there.  It's mental with him.  He's already shown what he can do when he is right, and he is not right.  He needs to get through this.

There is no doubt that if Yermin can get that confidence back, at the very least, he is an absolute weapon in the playoffs off the bench.  He's like a nuke in your back pocket if he's sitting on the bench.

Other than that, I would like to see Collins get more time.  But if the goal is winning, I think we have to go with Goodwin and Engel in the OF regularly with Hamilton and Eaton getting some time also.  It would be nice to see Vaughn take over the DH spot because in LF he's much better than Eloy but he's still not going to be running much down, and he's not the greatest playing the ball off of the wall either.

No matter how you slice it, losing Robert (more than anything) just kills.  Yermin and Vaughn are a good enough insurance policy for Eloy as a DH, and Mendick is a pretty good insurance policy for Madrigal.  But losing Robert really hurts the OF and the offense in so many ways.

[YourWhatHurts]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Tony is carefully managing Lamb’s playing time to take advantage of the most favorable matchups. If they tried playing him most games, both his hitting and lack of defense ability will be exposed.

Bottom line is this team is not going anywhere without Eloy, Robert and Abreu hitting at all cylinders. If Abreu is able regain some of his MVP form and connect with fastballs, and if Luis and Eloy can contribute at least near what they are capable upon their return, then this series will be just a blip and irrelevant when we are watching in October.

The more important concern coming out of this series is the pitching staff. Is Katz / Tony turnaround based on guys pitching with spider tack, and will they be able to put out good teams in October. Lynn, Keuchel, Cease were all owned this weekend. That is the main concern leaving Houston, IMO.
 

 

As contact pitchers, you have to figure that Lynn and Keuchel are going to have their issues at times (especially Keuchel) with lineups loaded with quality hitters who hit the ball hard a lot.  And with Cease, you also have to figure that his control is still going to elude him for the next year or so at least as he continues to settle in as an MLB pitcher.

Come playoffs, if we put Rodon out there in Game 1 and he is still the same guy we have seen all year, then we can win Game 1 against any single team in baseball.  Game 2, we have a shot at least with Giolito.  Game 3, there's again a shot at least with Lynn.  Then for Game 4 we could see Cease if he is in a good spot at that time or we could even see Kopech.

The biggest issue with this team IMO is just the inconsistency of the bullpen.  We will win or lose in large part based on whether Bummer and Heuer turn it around or not.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Personally I don’t think that 38 wRC+ has any predictive merit and I’m willing to invest in him now with the hopes that he can become a league average or better hitter against RHP before years end.  His ceiling is worth gambling on IMO since it’s highly unlikely we’ll be adding three bats at the deadline.

Look, getting a ~90ish wrc+ vs RHP shouldn't be that hard to find. At least, at LF.

But right now, Vaughn is a problem. And waiting on him to figure it out may or may not work for this season. He's worse right now than other players in the roster, let alone some random rental that shouldn't cost that much. 

Someday, he'll be a big part of this team. But this team is in free-fall, in part, because this offense is seriously flawed. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[MikeKreevich]

If you want to look for reasons for the current hitting problems, don't look at the fill ins.  Look at Anderson (one hit in four games), and Abreu (two hits in four games).  Moncada had three hits. Slumps happen!

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, MikeKreevich said:

If you want to look for reasons for the current hitting problems, don't look at the fill ins.  Look at Anderson (one hit in four games), and Abreu (two hits in four games).  Moncada had three hits. Slumps happen!

Slumps do happen and that’s part of it no doubt.  But we are asking Tim, Yoan, Jose, & Grandal to carry a massive load right now with so many fringe guys in the lineup.  I mean, Jose has had guy with a .400 OPS batting behind him for the last month.  The talent level right now is a serious problem and one that will need to be addressed before the trade deadline.

[chw42]

Yermin shouldn't DH against a righty. Maybe you throw him in there against a soft tossing lefty, but he's totally unable to handle ML pitching right now. If you have to, send him down to AAA to figure it out, cause having him hit .150 in the majors isn't helping anyone. 

Lamb should DH vs. righties as much as possible, but stop putting him in the 2 spot. He's a total liability on defense and really shouldn't be put in OF, especially if you plan on playing Goodwin in CF. The combination of Goodwin, Vaughn, and Lamb might be the worst defensive OF in baseball.

Play Engel as much as possible. We need him to anchor the defense in CF and he's hitting well enough against RHP that he shouldn't strictly be a platoon player. Especially when your other options in CF are Goodwin and Leury. 

Against RHP, I'd go Lamb at DH, Goodwin in LF, Engel in CF, and Leury in RF. You can even give Collins ABs at DH and have Lamb in LF if we don't have a fly ball heavy starter on the mound. 

Against LHP, Vaughn needs to be in the top 5 of the lineup. I don't care if it's 2, 3, or even 5, he belongs in there against lefties. He's one of our only guys who's had success against high velocity this year. 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by chw42

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It should be clear to pretty anyone that the offense is starting to show its cracks as we start to face better teams.  Over our last nine games against legit playoff contending teams (Blue Jays, Rays, & Astros), we have averaged a measly 3.56 runs per game.  If you exclude the Blue Jays series when we still had Madrigal, our runs per game drops to 3.17.  Either way, our recent offensive production has been bottom of baseball bad.

Obviously the hope is Eloy & Robert come back and solve two of our major holes.  The problem is there are a lot of games to be played between now and August and we’re only 3.5 games up on the Tribe.  Trades will likely happen, but even there it could be four or five weeks before we see any real action.  In the interim, the Sox would be smart to make some internal changes and try to optimize the offense as best as they can with what they have.  Here are my handful of ideas:

1. Option Yermin to Charlotte.  Since May 18th (the day after the infamous 3-0 homer), Mercedes has put up a .144/.215/.186/.401 slash line or 17 wRC+.  To say he’s been bad would be an understatement, but yet he continues to bat 5th most nights.  His bat is killing tons of opportunities for us with most of our best hitters batting in front of him and he’s been providing zero protection for Jose, who has fallen off during this time-frame (128 wRC+ before May 18th( a 95 since then).  For now, Yermin can’t be a part of this offense and he needs to find himself in AAA.
2. Start Collins regularly against RHP.  I don’t care if it’s at catcher or DH, but he & Grandal need to be in the lineup every time a righty on the mound.  Zack now has a 109 wRC+ against RHP and has looked much better at the plate as of late.  For a lineup in desperate need of power from the left-side, we can no longer afford to have Zack be limited to a backup catcher role.  Him & Grandal both need to be in the lineup against RHP, even if that means we risk losing the DH for a game in the event of injury.
3. Call up Jake Burger to DH against LHP.  Overall we still remain one of the best teams against lefties, but it’s very clear we’re trending in the wrong direction in that department.  Just in the last two weeks we’ve had Valdez hold us to two earned runs over 7, McClanahan hold us to two over 5, Skubal hold us to three over 6, Ryu hold us to three over 6, & Ray hold us to one over 6.1.  I get that some of these guys are pretty good pitchers, but we haven’t a big offensive game against a lefty in some time.  That’s where Jake can help.  As pointed out by @fathom, Burger has a ridiculous 1.362 OPS against lefties this year.  I get he’d be an untested rookie, but I think he’d be a big upgrade over what we’re currently getting against LHP and would add some much needed power to the lineup.  Plus he can fill at 3B when Yoan needs a breather here or there.
4. Play Vaughn Everyday in LF.  This one is going to be a bit counter-intuitive, but we need see what we got in the kid and figure out if he can work through his challenges against RHP.  He has been far & away our worst hitter against righties, posting a .487 OPS and 38 wRC+ on the season.  Right-handed pitchers are pummeling him down & away with sliders and he has yet to make the necessary adjustments.  This is not uncommon for young hitters, as we saw Eloy & Robert also chase too many sliders when they first came up, but Andrew will likely need consistent at-bats to figure his shit out.  Bat him near the bottom of the lineup against RHP for now and see how he responds.  He’s way too talented & smart of a hitter to force into a quasi platoon role and we definitely need him to take a big step forward in order to avoid having a third major hole in the lineup heading into the trade deadline.

What do you guys think of these ideas?  What would you differently?

 I would add Lamb also has to be in the lineup because he has the same amount of HR's as Moncada in 3X less PA's plus his OBP is pretty good. I don't like using Vaughn every day because you can't count on him to turn it around vs. RHP and Leury ,as was pointed out, is hitting better and adds far more speed and defense than Vaughn. You also have Goodwin against RHP who might be a better choice than Leury if you happen to think he can keep performing against RHP like he has since being brought up in the SSS. It's outstanding so far.

Vaughn is superb vs LHP so for that alone I wouldn't sent him down and while he's around I'm sure he will keep getting PT against RHP but every day, no.

Edited June 21, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[tray]

Fun to play GM. I'll bite:

1. DH platoon - Vaughn vs LHP and either Lamb, Grandal or Collins vs RH pitching

  Vaughn sits on the bench against RH pitching.

2. LF : platoon - Leury, Goodwin, Lamb

3. CF: Engel  . occasional starts by Goodwin.

4. RF: Leury and  Lamb until Eaton returns.

5. Eloy plays LF when he returns.

6. Robert back to Center, unless he is not running at 100%. Then I would leave Engel in CF and at least temporarily  play Robert in RF where there is less ground to cover. That could also minimize re-injury.

7. Minimize inning killing double plays.  Three innings were killed in the last game with DPs. I don't care if  they hit and run, attempt steals or even bunt. Almost anything is better than those double plays.

8. Our Relievers have to throw strikes early in the count. They are getting behind too often and surrendering to hitters when they have to throw a strike.

9. Hitting coach has to have a more coherent plan for our hitters depending on the starter we are facing.  Personally, I am not in favor of first ball fastball hunting.

10. Mendick and Leury platoon at second is fine for the moment.

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by tray

[South Side Hit Men]

https://theathletic.com/2663422/2021/06/20/assessing-the-white-sox-after-a-good-old-fashioned-butt-whooping-in-houston/

Quote

 

“He’s gonna make ’em because he can hit,” said Astros manager Dusty Baker, whose son, Daren, played alongside Vaughn in college at California. “Right now he’s playing against upperclassmen, and that’s big for me, where before, the last two years of college, he’s playing against lower classmen and now he’s elevated to the pros. Now he’s playing against guys that are more experienced and probably can trick the young hitter. Once he gets adjusted or when his class gets here, he’ll be a couple years ahead of all of his class because he got here so quickly.

“I haven’t seen that since Dave Winfield or Bob Horner or those kind of guys. He’s way ahead of pace. Don’t worry about him. He’s going to hit.”

 

 

[hogan873]

I definitely think Yermin has to go down to Charlotte.  He needs some time to fix his approach, and away from the big league club is where he should be doing that.

I could see Burger being called up soon, but I would like to see him get steady playing time.  That's not going to happen just against LHP, and he's not going to be playing 3B.  I don't know if him playing 2B in Charlotte is a way to get him up to the Sox to play 2B.  I'm not sure this is possible, as it's a pretty high-profile position (lots of action).

Collins should be playing against RHP, whether it's as catcher or DH.

Vaughn needs to continue to play almost every day.  Give him a break once in a while against RHP, and let Lamb play.

There are not many solutions available for the Sox right now.  They are going to need to make a few moves to shore up the offense.  Nothing huge has to go down, but adding a bat to help them get better against RHP has to be priority.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 hours ago, hogan873 said:

I definitely think Yermin has to go down to Charlotte.  He needs some time to fix his approach, and away from the big league club is where he should be doing that.

I could see Burger being called up soon, but I would like to see him get steady playing time.  That's not going to happen just against LHP, and he's not going to be playing 3B.  I don't know if him playing 2B in Charlotte is a way to get him up to the Sox to play 2B.  I'm not sure this is possible, as it's a pretty high-profile position (lots of action).

Collins should be playing against RHP, whether it's as catcher or DH.

Vaughn needs to continue to play almost every day.  Give him a break once in a while against RHP, and let Lamb play.

There are not many solutions available for the Sox right now.  They are going to need to make a few moves to shore up the offense.  Nothing huge has to go down, but adding a bat to help them get better against RHP has to be priority.

Lamb should be in against righties every day either at DH or RF (especially with Eaton out and to see if he can be in a platoon out there beyond Eaton's return).

[hankchifan]

20 hours ago, tray said:

Fun to play GM. I'll bite:

1. DH platoon - Vaughn vs LHP and either Lamb, Grandal or Collins vs RH pitching

  Vaughn sits on the bench against RH pitching.

2. LF : platoon - Leury, Goodwin, Lamb

3. CF: Engel  . occasional starts by Goodwin.

4. RF: Leury and  Lamb until Eaton returns.

5. Eloy plays LF when he returns.

6. Robert back to Center, unless he is not running at 100%. Then I would leave Engel in CF and at least temporarily  play Robert in RF where there is less ground to cover. That could also minimize re-injury.

7. Minimize inning killing double plays.  Three innings were killed in the last game with DPs. I don't care if  they hit and run, attempt steals or even bunt. Almost anything is better than those double plays.

8. Our Relievers have to throw strikes early in the count. They are getting behind too often and surrendering to hitters when they have to throw a strike.

9. Hitting coach has to have a more coherent plan for our hitters depending on the starter we are facing.  Personally, I am not in favor of first ball fastball hunting.

10. Mendick and Leury platoon at second is fine for the moment.

 

 

 

Sounds like a good plan.  Sox have been primarily a ground ball hitting team so hit and runs makes sense with the right players. Are you factoring Billy Hamilton in any scenario?  Burger?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Sounds like a good plan.  Sox have been primarily a ground ball hitting team so hit and runs makes sense with the right players. Are you factoring Billy Hamilton in any scenario?  Burger?

It's really hard to factor Hamilton into any of this. The OP wants to play Vaughn full time in LF that's the only one I have a problem with. He makes a decent point on hoping Vaughn can turn it around against RHP but he's had his chance. They need lineup improvement right now against both RHP and LHP Leury's also had a lot of playing time and Hamilton got his share too but his role if he actually has one when everyone is healthy is an a PR and defensive replacement.

The 2 guys in the outfield that need the AB's the most right now are Engel and Goodwin.

Engel has exhibited the needed power  in his short time back but where most don't trust him is against RHP. For the first time in his life last year he hit RHP well. We have to find out if that was a one time thing due to BABIP which I'm pretty sure the OP thinks it is since I had that discussion with him at the beginning of the season. I don't think anybody has a problem with him against LHP which has always been his strong side.

Maybe he found something last year he didn't have previously. If he has, he could be in the starting OF in RF or LF considering he's one of the best fielders  in baseball. It's hardly worth mentioning since Engel and Goodwin have very few AB's since returning but so far both have done well.

Burger hit's RHP very well but it's hard to count on him to play 2nd base because they are only in the last few days starting that experiment with him and that's the only spot theoretically open for him right now and there won't be a spot for him if the Sox get Escobar. Plus he's been out a long time and it's asking a lot of him to step in and continue to mash MLB RHP pitching like he has MiLB RHP.

[CentralChamps21]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:29 AM, tray said:

9. Hitting coach has to have a more coherent plan for our hitters depending on the starter we are facing.  Personally, I am not in favor of first ball fastball hunting.

 

First pitch hitting approach needs to vary by hitter. Hitters that are better at laying off those sliders and/or working walks, like Grandal, Moncada and when he's back Madrigal, should almost never be swinging at the first pitch. Hitters that are prone to chasing bad pitches with 2 strikes, like Anderson and Abreu should be aggressive on the first pitch if they get something they can drive. The younger guys who have bigger platoon splits, like Vaughn and Collins, should be more patient on their platoon advantage but more aggressive on their platoon disadvantage.

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's really hard to factor Hamilton into any of this. The OP wants to play Vaughn full time in LF that's the only one I have a problem with. He makes a decent point on hoping Vaughn can turn it around against RHP but he's had his chance. They need lineup improvement right now against both RHP and LHP Leury's also had a lot of playing time and Hamilton got his share too but his role if he actually has one when everyone is healthy is an a PR and defensive replacement.

The 2 guys in the outfield that need the AB's the most right now are Engel and Goodwin.

Engel has exhibited the needed power  in his short time back but where most don't trust him is against RHP. For the first time in his life last year he hit RHP well. We have to find out if that was a one time thing due to BABIP which I'm pretty sure the OP thinks it is since I had that discussion with him at the beginning of the season. I don't think anybody has a problem with him against LHP which has always been his strong side.

Maybe he found something last year he didn't have previously. If he has, he could be in the starting OF in RF or LF considering he's one of the best fielders  in baseball. It's hardly worth mentioning since Engel and Goodwin have very few AB's since returning but so far both have done well.

Burger hit's RHP very well but it's hard to count on him to play 2nd base because they are only in the last few days starting that experiment with him and that's the only spot theoretically open for him right now and there won't be a spot for him if the Sox get Escobar. Plus he's been out a long time and it's asking a lot of him to step in and continue to mash MLB RHP pitching like he has MiLB RHP.

Unless you DH him and send Mercedes down...of course, they could also go to Sheets but more likely they trust the bets with at least some big league experience/pedigree like Engel, Lamb and Goodwin. 

Then there’s the whole Mendick vs. Leury vs. trade/acquisition argument as well.

Not sure they’re ready to give Collins more at-bats at DH.

At any rate, something’s gotta give but Hahn might get lucky temporarily and be saved by the schedule gods for at least another month.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by caulfield12

[Lillian]

Vaughn doesn't need to learn to "hit" sliders, as much as he needs to learn to lay off sliders. It's doubtful that he ever saw pitches in college, like the ones he's facing now. By the way, do they use Spiker Tac in college? Just wondering. Perhaps now that spin rates should be returning to something that resembles normal, he'll have a better chance to handle them. However, the key for Vaughn will still be to learn to recognize the slider and lay off anything spinning, that starts out looking like a strike, because it won't be, by the time it reaches the plate. Hittable sliders from right handers, start out looking like they're going to hit the batter, or at least be way inside. He doesn't seem to bail on those pitches, so he has conquered that major challenge. Now, he just needs to lay off those breaking pitches that look like they will be strikes, when they leave the pitcher's hand. The question is; Can the Sox afford to let him learn at the Major League level, if they are serious about a Post Season run? I don't know.

I've stated many times that Lamb needs to be in the lineup against RHP. He is as good of a power hitter vs RHP, as you're likely to acquire in a trade deadline deal. 

Burger is not a plausible solution at second base. Interesting experiment, at AAA, but not on this team with Post Season aspirations.

Although he's another RH hitter, Beckham should be able to help upgrade the offense, over Mendick, at second. I assume we can now all agree that the issue of his needing to complete his suspension has been resolved. He's ready and he should be on the MLB roster. If the Sox can acquire Escobar, Beckham could still stay at second and Eduardo could find playing time in LF or DH. 

Mercedes is not serviceable vs. RHP, at this point. That coupled with the fact that he has no position, makes him the odd man out. 

Playing and, or platooning bats like Beckham, Lamb and Escobar should give this offense a chance to be competitive, over Mendick, Leury,  Hamilton and the other bench players, whom this injury riddled roster has had to use. However, another addition before the trade deadline would be great.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Lillian

[raBBit]

A lot of good stuff here. It's pretty simple and a bit disappointing there hasn't been swifter action. 

1 - Probably time to option Mercedes.

2 - Lamb plays everyday against RHP. Whether it be DH or RF.

3 - Collins plays against RHP. The frequency of his starts against LHP is setting Collins and the team up for failure.

4 - Grandal and Collins need to play together against RHP. 

Also Engel has limited track record against RHP but we have to see how he handles himself. Not sure what type of rest schedule they are planning for him but for me he should be in CF for every LHP and half of the RHP.

 

[bighurt574]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's really hard to factor Hamilton into any of this. The OP wants to play Vaughn full time in LF that's the only one I have a problem with. He makes a decent point on hoping Vaughn can turn it around against RHP but he's had his chance. They need lineup improvement right now against both RHP and LHP Leury's also had a lot of playing time and Hamilton got his share too but his role if he actually has one when everyone is healthy is an a PR and defensive replacement.

The 2 guys in the outfield that need the AB's the most right now are Engel and Goodwin.

Engel has exhibited the needed power  in his short time back but where most don't trust him is against RHP. For the first time in his life last year he hit RHP well. We have to find out if that was a one time thing due to BABIP which I'm pretty sure the OP thinks it is since I had that discussion with him at the beginning of the season. I don't think anybody has a problem with him against LHP which has always been his strong side.

Maybe he found something last year he didn't have previously. If he has, he could be in the starting OF in RF or LF considering he's one of the best fielders  in baseball. It's hardly worth mentioning since Engel and Goodwin have very few AB's since returning but so far both have done well.

Burger hit's RHP very well but it's hard to count on him to play 2nd base because they are only in the last few days starting that experiment with him and that's the only spot theoretically open for him right now and there won't be a spot for him if the Sox get Escobar. Plus he's been out a long time and it's asking a lot of him to step in and continue to mash MLB RHP pitching like he has MiLB RHP.

 

For a guy who is supposed to be a future cornerstone, you have to let Vaughn keep getting AB's against righties.  

Platooning him isn't a long-term solution.  

If he's still struggling as we near the playoffs, then you do something for the short term.