Internal Hitting Options (Split from Escobar thread)

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'll also make this simple. Andrew Vaughn has been so bad against RHP he would have to substantially improve just to reach Leury's level of bad. Also Andrew Vaughn is having the worst month of his season thus far. Expecting him to improve to a level that helps the Sox through the rest of the season and through the playoff is a tall order in which there is probably less than a 50/50 chance of that kind of improvement given what he has done so far.

I also don't not care anything about why Goodwin or Leury or Lamb are here. All I do is look at the stats. I don't expect them to improve or get worse which is the same thing I think about Vaughn. I can only go by what's in front of me now.

If all 4 are still on the team come October and Andrew Vaughn has torn up the league in the 2nd half I would be thrilled to play him in the playoffs. It's not like the Sox are going to bench Vaughn for all AB's against RHP. He'll get plenty of chances to keep playing and improve.

 

The easier schedule over the next stretch of 16 games might allow him to regain his confidence...there’s that.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because current stats aren't static.  They change as you play games.  That is the literal point.  Player will get better and worse than what they currently are.  There is zero chance that Andrew Vaughn has a 38 OPS+ against RHP by the end of the season, and none of the players you keep pushing will have their same numbers at the end of the season.  In fact the more you play them, the more likely they are to see their numbers take a dive because they are crappy players.  They have a history of being crappy players, who are currently just being played in favorable match ups.  The more you play them, the more exposed they become.

The house of sand that everything can only be determined by their stats today, and that it is the only thing you care about is an imaginary standard.  We are going to play about 90 more games this season to get to October.  I care about progress through the rest of the season, because I know Andrew Vaughn is the one guy out of that group with a real chance to get better the more he plays, unlike the rest of them.

I didn't think you would give me what I asked for and you didn't disappoint me. You will never put yourself on the line.

I didn't build a house of sand. You did. I never said current stats are static. That is Capt. Obvious info. Any number of players whether 1st round draft choices or veterans  usually put up better or worse stats  from the  1st half to the 2nd  half. Vaughn may very well have the best chance to improve his stats against RHP going forward but that is also a house of sand . You did put yourself on the line a tiny bit by saying there is zero chance that Vaughn continues to have a 38 wRC+ against RHP the rest of the season . So I will hold you to that. Whether  a 50, 60 or 75 wRC+ against  RHP is good enough to play in the playoffs vs RHP is another matter entirely.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The easier schedule over the next stretch of 16 games might allow him to regain his confidence...there’s that.

Easy to agree with for any player even Mercedes.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I didn't think you would give me what I asked for and you didn't disappoint me. You will never put yourself on the line.

I didn't build a house of sand. You did. I never said current stats are static. That is Capt. Obvious info. Any number of players whether 1st round draft choices or veterans  usually put up better or worse stats  from the  1st half to the 2nd  half. Vaughn may very well have the best chance to improve his stats against RHP going forward but that is also a house of sand . You did put yourself on the line a tiny bit by saying there is zero chance that Vaughn continues to have a 38 wRC+ against RHP the rest of the season . So I will hold you to that. Whether  a 50, 60 or 75 wRC+ against  RHP is good enough to play in the playoffs vs RHP is another matter entirely.

 

Is that what you are looking for?  Some kind of AHA moment?  Have at it. 

[CentralChamps21]

I will echo what others have said - Vaughn is a 23 year old top hitting prospect. He can't be used as strictly a platoon player this season at the expense of his long-term development. He needs to play 5+ times per week whether that be in Chicago or at Charlotte.

Are there better options for LF right now? Yes. Barring more injuries and given the upcoming schedule can this team live with Vaughn playing over those better options, at least until Eloy is back? Yes.

 

[BamaDoc]

While we wait for guys to get healthy or arrive via trade, I would ride the hot guys in Charlotte for a week or ten days at a time if necessary.  For the last 28 days Yermin OPS .293 and Mendick .542    Meanwhile here are June OPS numbers in  Charlotte   Beckham 1.229, Reynolds .905, Burger .912 and Sheets .775   Maybe giving some of our guys a week or ten days of everyday at bats helps them get going.  Riding a hot journeyman might just get you through till reinforcements can arrive.

[Dominikk85]

Burger is producing at AAA (923 ops) but I'm not sure how his 5 to 1 k/bb rate will play in the majors. 

25% k rate is a bit on the high side but his 5% walk rate is especially bad, a hitter type like him should walk at least 8-9%.

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

While we wait for guys to get healthy or arrive via trade, I would ride the hot guys in Charlotte for a week or ten days at a time if necessary.  For the last 28 days Yermin OPS .293 and Mendick .542    Meanwhile here are June OPS numbers in  Charlotte   Beckham 1.229, Reynolds .905, Burger .912 and Sheets .775   Maybe giving some of our guys a week or ten days of everyday at bats helps them get going.  Riding a hot journeyman might just get you through till reinforcements can arrive.

All Charlotte (look at home/road splits) stats come with a stern warning not to put too much faith in them...that said, you can probably stick a fork in Rutherford.

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 6/25/2021 at 12:03 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Golden God?

Uh, as a post, these are some words.

Relax, I'm mostly making fun of this stoopid FO for actually trading anything for Mazara. Oh, and for those posters who carried a torch for Mazara, who has always sucked at baseball.

23 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d be fine with sending down Vaughn if we had other legitimately good options but we don’t.  And the issue development wise isn’t sending him down, but rather delaying his learning on how to hit a major league slider which is his primary problem at the moment.

Shit, if there are "good options," it wouldn't be Vaughn here in the first place. How about just having options that aren't "revolting?" I meant, its a 37 wrc+ vs. RHP for Vaughn. He'd need a ~200% increase in wrc to get to a league average wrc+ vs RHP.

In terms of development, Vaughn looks like a guy who hasn't played above A+ ball.  Fuck "learning how to hit a major league slider," he looks like he just might lose any measure of self-confidence at this rate. Its a 37 wc+.

If WE know this, I guarantee that Vaughn and his team mates know this as well. At what point are fingers starting to be pointed at him? At what point do fissures develop in the clubhouse? He (and others) are actively hurting this team right now.

He won't be hurt by being sent down, if Moncada got sent down, or Mickey Fucking Mantle got sent down, or any other number of youngsters got sent down without being totally crushed. YMMV.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:46 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Because current stats aren't static.  They change as you play games.  That is the literal point.  Player will get better and worse than what they currently are.  There is zero chance that Andrew Vaughn has a 38 OPS+ against RHP by the end of the season, and none of the players you keep pushing will have their same numbers at the end of the season.  In fact the more you play them, the more likely they are to see their numbers take a dive because they are crappy players.  They have a history of being crappy players, who are currently just being played in favorable match ups.  The more you play them, the more exposed they become.

The house of sand that everything can only be determined by their stats today, and that it is the only thing you care about is an imaginary standard.  We are going to play about 90 more games this season to get to October.  I care about progress through the rest of the season, because I know Andrew Vaughn is the one guy out of that group with a real chance to get better the more he plays, unlike the rest of them.

In six days, Vaughn has gone from a 38 to a 51 OPS+ against righties.

In the meantime, MR OPS+ Brian Goodwin has gone from 216 to 123, even after his homer last night.  The day before he was at 101, or his career average, on a .747 OPS.

This is why you don't only bank on current stats, but think of player histories and how much room they have to get to their ceilings.

[southsider2k5]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, southsider2k5 said:

In six days, Vaughn has gone from a 38 to a 51 OPS+ against righties.

In the meantime, MR OPS+ Brian Goodwin has gone from 216 to 123, even after his homer last night.  The day before he was at 101, or his career average, on a .747 OPS.

This is why you don't only bank on current stats, but think of player histories and how much room they have to get to their ceilings.

Vaughn now up to 66 OPS+ from June 25 to July 2.

[ron883]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, southsider2k5 said:

In six days, Vaughn has gone from a 38 to a 51 OPS+ against righties.

In the meantime, MR OPS+ Brian Goodwin has gone from 216 to 123, even after his homer last night.  The day before he was at 101, or his career average, on a .747 OPS.

This is why you don't only bank on current stats, but think of player histories and how much room they have to get to their ceilings.

Brian Goodwin up to a 148 OPS+. Where's the love for him?

[southsider2k5]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:46 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Because current stats aren't static.  They change as you play games.  That is the literal point.  Player will get better and worse than what they currently are.  There is zero chance that Andrew Vaughn has a 38 OPS+ against RHP by the end of the season, and none of the players you keep pushing will have their same numbers at the end of the season.  In fact the more you play them, the more likely they are to see their numbers take a dive because they are crappy players.  They have a history of being crappy players, who are currently just being played in favorable match ups.  The more you play them, the more exposed they become.

The house of sand that everything can only be determined by their stats today, and that it is the only thing you care about is an imaginary standard.  We are going to play about 90 more games this season to get to October.  I care about progress through the rest of the season, because I know Andrew Vaughn is the one guy out of that group with a real chance to get better the more he plays, unlike the rest of them.

In 16 days Vaughn has gone from 38 to 82 OPS+ against RHP.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

In 16 days Vaughn has gone from 38 to 82 OPS+ against RHP.

So, well over 100 during this span.  Third in team HRs, second in extra base hits (two off the team lead). Just turned 23, brand new more difficult position, with only A ball two years ago under his belt.

"Vaughn has made it through seven platoon partners, got thrown into Left Field with a few hours of preparation, and he ain't dead yet.

Does that mean anything to you, huh?  Vaughn ain't meant to die! The only thing that can kill Vaughn is Vaughn."

 

[southsider2k5]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:46 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Because current stats aren't static.  They change as you play games.  That is the literal point.  Player will get better and worse than what they currently are.  There is zero chance that Andrew Vaughn has a 38 OPS+ against RHP by the end of the season, and none of the players you keep pushing will have their same numbers at the end of the season.  In fact the more you play them, the more likely they are to see their numbers take a dive because they are crappy players.  They have a history of being crappy players, who are currently just being played in favorable match ups.  The more you play them, the more exposed they become.

The house of sand that everything can only be determined by their stats today, and that it is the only thing you care about is an imaginary standard.  We are going to play about 90 more games this season to get to October.  I care about progress through the rest of the season, because I know Andrew Vaughn is the one guy out of that group with a real chance to get better the more he plays, unlike the rest of them.

In a one month span Andrew Vaughn has moved from a 38 OPS+ against RHP to an 88 OPS+.

[he gone.]

On 6/25/2021 at 5:37 PM, Dominikk85 said:

Burger is producing at AAA (923 ops) but I'm not sure how his 5 to 1 k/bb rate will play in the majors. 

25% k rate is a bit on the high side but his 5% walk rate is especially bad, a hitter type like him should walk at least 8-9%.

tthis turned out to be a valid take. burger looked really good. comfortable against how much time he was out, inconsistent at bats, etc. But at the end of the day he's been away for a long time, is young, and needs to work on some things. charlotte makes too much sense. let him go back to playin everyday. at the very least his trade value has gone up a bunch in the last month. 

 

Same with sheets. nice kid. looks better than expected. however, sending him down while he has options, and after his trade value increased? and to get at bats everyday? makes sense. allows to call up a beckham or lamb instead who has a bit better position flexibility. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

In a one month span Andrew Vaughn has moved from a 38 OPS+ against RHP to an 88 OPS+.

Dude has been killing it in July and his defense has been good.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]