Trade an asset

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Vulture said:

The first thing I do when trying to win a world series is look to see if I can’t trade my best pitcher. See if we can get a couple good utility players

I'm not the OP but apparently what you would get in return means nothing  or how much gas Rodon may have left in the tank ? Just, but he's our best pitcher . Brilliant discussion. I don't think I have heard that enough yet this thread can someone else please say it . I might have enough meatballs for a spaghetti dinner.

[tray]

Cali:

Rodon has earned loyalty points with management so I don't think the WSox would be inclined to  initiate trade discussions involving him. Having said that, almost any player could be on the trading block for the right return.  Personally, I think Cease would be the first of the five that the Sox would consider trading... at this point. However, the Sox might be reticent to trade any starter  while they are still in contention, especially if they have new doubts about Kopech's long-term durability.

I know that trading a top 3 starter would be viewed as heresy, but personally, I would not bat an eye if the Sox trade Keuchel for the right player(s) and prospect(s). Since Dallas Keuchel stated that he still considers Houston Home, maybe a trade to Houston would make him happy and the Astros as well. They have plenty of trade capital.

Tray of spaghetti.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by tray

[SCCWS]

14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

low inning output To trade him for the best deal they can get. Or do a 3 way deal with another team and a prospect from the Sox with a prospect from another team and Rodon goes to the 3rd team ?

 Thanks for asking even though I made 2 different posts in the thread that explained it  but it makes the thread longer  You get a thank you emoji !

 

Cali: But  some Sox posters are thinking Rodon will be limited in the 2nd half of season do to his reduced innings  last year. Others think he is injury prone. Ttrade partners may assume the same thing which means his value is very limited in a trade.  We may be better off gambling he helps us than giviing him away for limited value. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Fans calling players assets, capital, commodities etc is about as douchey as it gets.  

[Jnooch]

Actually an asset is a compliment. If they were crappy players they would be called a liability.....i.e. Adam Eaton. Its a big business and these guys are making millions. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Jnooch

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Jnooch said:

Actually an asset is a compliment. If they were crappy players they would be called a liability.....i.e. Adam Eaton. Its a big business and these guys are making millions. 

Welcome to Soxtalk!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

Cali: But  some Sox posters are thinking Rodon will be limited in the 2nd half of season do to his reduced innings  last year. Others think he is injury prone. Ttrade partners may assume the same thing which means his value is very limited in a trade.  We may be better off gambling he helps us than giviing him away for limited value. 

All true but a contender desperate for pitching may take that chance also that if they baby him he can make it through the playoffs.  That's what it seem people here think though I haven't seen anyone actually say that. I haven't heard a whole of of people saying yes, maybe the possibility for a trade should exist because of inning pitched limits and he has been injury prone in the past. I just keep hearing  it's dumb to trade your best pitcher. Bama Doc was the only one open to the possibility.

If someone had said what you just said that is acceptable.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, tray said:

Cali:

Rodon has earned loyalty points with management so I don't think the WSox would be inclined to  initiate trade discussions involving him. Having said that, almost any player could be on the trading block for the right return.  Personally, I think Cease would be the first of the five that the Sox would consider trading... at this point. However, the Sox might be reticent to trade any starter  while they are still in contention, especially if they have new doubts about Kopech's long-term durability.

I know that trading a top 3 starter would be viewed as heresy, but personally, I would not bat an eye if the Sox trade Keuchel for the right player(s) and prospect(s). Since Dallas Keuchel stated that he still considers Houston Home, maybe a trade to Houston would make him happy and the Astros as well. They have plenty of trade capital.

Tray of spaghetti.

 

 

My opinion is that Rodon is the only starting pitcher who is acceptable to trade. That's because he is like a special needs pitcher. He will have to be monitored closely because of innings pitched limitations and may not stay healthy enough to make it through multiple  playoff series. Most starting pitchers who pitch from the start of the season through the World Series without injury usually pitch over 200 innings . He may not and I'm guessing he won't be capable of that. But with special care he might be hence the appeal to other clubs. Other clubs might be fine with him pitching 4 or 5 innings a start or giving him  some time off just to have him ready for the playoffs.

Veteran guys like Lynn , Giolito and Keuchel are probably the best guys a starting staff can have whose arms have been through the meat grinder already.

We are experiencing unprecedented levels of injuries and the team most likely to win the World Series will be the luckiest team who remains healthy in the second half. Right now one could say that trading for people who have shown an ability to stay healthy might be the best thing to do or have some key players returning from injury. If you had to guess would you think the injuries  that have decimated teams like the Sox will get better , normalize of get worse in the 2nd half ?

[Vulture]

18 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not the OP but apparently what you would get in return means nothing  or how much gas Rodon may have left in the tank ? Just, but he's our best pitcher . Brilliant discussion. I don't think I have heard that enough yet this thread can someone else please say it . I might have enough meatballs for a spaghetti dinner.

Usually the simplest is the most correct. Trading Rodon at this juncture would be a straight up tank move

[zisk]

Micker and a pitching prospect for Whit Merrifield. He's a good player and can play 2nd and OF. At 32+ years of age, he'll be useless 

by the time KC is good again.

 

[Jnooch]

What makes you think KC would do that.?

Edited June 28, 2021 by Jnooch

[zisk]

27 minutes ago, Jnooch said:

What makes you think KC would do that.?

32+ years old. He's starting to trend down. Royals are years away. He'll make 10.5$ next year. There are lots of reasons 

KC might move him. Also, Micker does have a high ceiling. It would depend on the pitcher they'd want.

 

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, zisk said:

Micker and a pitching prospect for Whit Merrifield. He's a good player and can play 2nd and OF. At 32+ years of age, he'll be useless 

by the time KC is good again.

 

Unless that "prospect " is Kopech,  KC isn't listening.  They can get much more for him.

[2Deep]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Unless that "prospect " is Kopech,  KC isn't listening.  They can get much more for him.

There is no way in hell KC is going to get a prospect as good as MK for Merrifield. They may get multiple decent prospects but no way someone like MK

[SoxSteve]

Trade Madrigal and Vaughn. Oh sorry that was the talk during the winter and spring around here. My bad lol

[steveno89]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:40 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why not Rodon and whoever for Zac Gallen  and Escobar ? Sure it's crazy to think about. But Rodon is gone next year and his health for the rest of the year and throughout the playoffs is questionable.

Gallen's health is also questionable. He missed part of spring training with a stress fracture in his pitching arm and just missed a month and a half for a partial UCL tear.

Today is his 1st start since then.

AZ might be wise to trade him now before TJ surgery. However he doesn't become a FA until 2026.

What if the Sox wanted to wait on a trade for Escobar to see how Gallen pitches today or another start after today ?  Lets say his arm holds up for 2 starts it's still at risk considering a partial tear of the UCL just doesn't heal in 1.5 months . Then there's the stress fracture earlier so his pitching arm is taking quite a beating.

Any trade with AZ might also take a bit longer because their GM is on leave because of his wife's illness  and they brought in Allard Baird a former GM and expanded the role of the Asst. GM. Trading Gallen would be a big decision for them . Also would be a big decision for the Sox to trade Rodon so they could stipulate that the Dbacks can trade Rodon to any team except the Indians as part of the trade.

Any way would be quite ballsy on the part of both teams so not likely to happen .

Most think trading Rodon would be a concession speech for this season but it doesn't have to be that way. Have to think outside the box some times.

Rodon is not getting dealt. Also, why would the Diamondbacks want him when they are years away from contending again? 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 6/27/2021 at 8:37 AM, Jnooch said:

Would anyone be in favor of trading Carlos Rodon for a meaningful LH bat? I dont see Carlos signing next year with the Sox. 
Boros is his agent and with Carlos health history I dont see this org signing him to a 5 year deal. It would have to be to a contender because 

Arizona, Pittsburgh, and other non contenders are looking for young prospects. Could Michael Kopech step in to his spot?

 

 

 

 

Yeah why not. Good idea let's do another rebuild too. Lynn is a free agent as well next year, so might as well trade him too. For that matter might as well trade Abreu as he is getting older. LOL

Or perhaps...and this is a novel idea, why don't the Sox become Buyers and go ALL IN and go for the World Series title this year. I know, a crazy idea. LOL

[ChiSox59]

19 hours ago, zisk said:

Micker and a pitching prospect for Whit Merrifield. He's a good player and can play 2nd and OF. At 32+ years of age, he'll be useless 

by the time KC is good again.

 

Is the Sox could get Merrifield for Adolfo + any of their pitching prospects not on the MLB roster, he'd be a White Sox already.  And the rest of the league would be kicking themselves for not inquiring.  This isn't even remotely close to an offer that would work.  

[The Kids Can Play]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:46 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The way I look at it is you go into next year without Rodon and Lynn. That's a kick in the butt of a way to start the off season. No matter who you get at  the trade deadline a lot of the Sox chances to win depend on Rodon's arm holding up , which in itself is dicey and Eloy and Robert returning  to form another dicey proposition.

Chances of winning the World Series are slim every year even with a very good team.  Chances improve for the coming years if you can add another quality SP when you are losing 2 of them. Plus next year hopefully Eloy and Robert can stay healthy.

Why do you assume Rodon and Lynn are gone. Rodon said after he signed before the season, he had other options but he wanted to remain a Sox player. I seriously believe Rodon as a free agent next year wants to stay here. I compare Rodon to Abreu. Jose Abreu has always given Hahn a home town discount because he wants to play his entire career with the White Sox.

Lynn has said publicly he loves playing on this team. I get he is a free agent too, but unless Jerry R plays cheap ass and doesn't allow Hahn to spend the necessary money for Lynn, why would Lynn want to go to another team, when the team he is on here, has as much chance to win a WS title as any other team over the next few years. 

I would rather see us have a rotation next year of Giolito, Lynn, Cease, Kopech and Rodon and LOSE Keuchel in a off season trade. 

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Why do you assume Rodon and Lynn are gone. Rodon said after he signed before the season, he had other options but he wanted to remain a Sox player. I seriously believe Rodon as a free agent next year wants to stay here. I compare Rodon to Abreu. Jose Abreu has always given Hahn a home town discount because he wants to play his entire career with the White Sox.

Lynn has said publicly he loves playing on this team. I get he is a free agent too, but unless Jerry R plays cheap ass and doesn't allow Hahn to spend the necessary money for Lynn, why would Lynn want to go to another team, when the team he is on here, has as much chance to win a WS title as any other team over the next few years. 

I would rather see us have a rotation next year of Giolito, Lynn, Cease, Kopech and Rodon and LOSE Keuchel in a off season trade. 

Rodon isn't taking some home town discount to stay with the Sox.  He's going to get paid, and frankly, the Sox shouldn't be the ones to pay him.  Way too much risk there.  

Lynn I could maybe see re-signing, but there is pretty much no chance both Lynn and Rodon are with the Sox in 22.  

Giolito, Kopech, Keuchel, Cease and FA will be the 22 rotation.

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rodon isn't taking some home town discount to stay with the Sox.  He's going to get paid, and frankly, the Sox shouldn't be the ones to pay him.  Way too much risk there.  

Lynn I could maybe see re-signing, but there is pretty much no chance both Lynn and Rodon are with the Sox in 22.  

Giolito, Kopech, Keuchel, Cease and FA will be the 22 rotation.

 

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rodon isn't taking some home town discount to stay with the Sox.  He's going to get paid, and frankly, the Sox shouldn't be the ones to pay him.  Way too much risk there.  

Lynn I could maybe see re-signing, but there is pretty much no chance both Lynn and Rodon are with the Sox in 22.  

Giolito, Kopech, Keuchel, Cease and FA will be the 22 rotation.

Maybe you see resigning Lynn! Are you kidding me, he is the best pitcher on this team this year.

Given the injury history of Rodon, I'm not sure Rodon is going to get huge FA money. This is why he would stay with the Sox.

Btw, you wanting Keuchel for another season after he is by far our worst starting pitcher this year, is ridiculous. I'm not sure if you have been watching the games Keuchel has pitched this year or looked at his stats. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 

Maybe you see resigning Lynn! Are you kidding me, he is the best pitcher on this team this year.

Given the injury history of Rodon, I'm not sure Rodon is going to get huge FA money. This is why he would stay with the Sox.

Btw, you wanting Keuchel for another season after he is by far our worst starting pitcher this year, is ridiculous. I'm not sure if you have been watching the games Keuchel has pitched this year or looked at his stats. 

Lol, Keuchel is signed.  Rodon and Lynn are FAs.  I love how you're penciling in 2 dudes that are FA, but removing the guy signed for 22 (and likely 2023).

Of course I want Lynn.  So will 29 other clubs.  He seems to like it here so maybe the Sox can get him to re-sign, but its far from a certainty. Hence the "maybe I could see Lynn resigning" comment.  

Rodon is gone after 2021 man.  At minimum, he's getting something like 3/$45M due to his history. The Sox should not the high bidders on this one as its extremely likely to not turn out well.  And they know that.   Ride him hard in 2021, and let him get paid and injured with someone else.  

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, 2Deep said:

There is no way in hell KC is going to get a prospect as good as MK for Merrifield. They may get multiple decent prospects but no way someone like MK

If the Sox wanted Micker for Merrifield, 28 other teams would have already beaten that offer.  KC has been asking for the moon for Whit, which is why he is still in KC.

[2Deep]

Then he  will stay in KC

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol, Keuchel is signed.  Rodon and Lynn are FAs.  I love how you're penciling in 2 dudes that are FA, but removing the guy signed for 22 (and likely 2023).

Of course I want Lynn.  So will 29 other clubs.  He seems to like it here so maybe the Sox can get him to re-sign, but its far from a certainty. Hence the "maybe I could see Lynn resigning" comment.  

Rodon is gone after 2021 man.  At minimum, he's getting something like 3/$45M due to his history. The Sox should not the high bidders on this one as its extremely likely to not turn out well.  And they know that.   Ride him hard in 2021, and let him get paid and injured with someone else.  

I am still OK with a wait and see approach on both of these guys.

Rodon has a terrible injury history.  He is either going to get hurt, or he is going to pitch a crazy number of innings which he hasn't approached since 2016. 

Lynn has fallen apart since the sticky stuff busts started happening.  If that is causal or coincidence remains to be seen, and could make a HUGE difference in what he is worth.