The Grandal will come out tomorrow, you can bet your bottom dollar

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

Sox lead the MLB in pitching WAR and K/9 and they face a DH over a pitcher.

 

Is that still the case after this rough stretch? 

 

[35thstreetswarm]

4 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

It would definitely be bad if he's out for the season.  There isn't any FA catcher who could realistically help, and adding a good catcher to potential trade targets just complicates things.  They Sox would most likely have to roll with Collins/Zavala for the rest of the year, and that's a scary thought.

Yes -- if we start losing core players for the season that would definitely change things, especially one like Grandal for whom there is no real replacement.

[raBBit]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok, it's been a while. 

Anyway, they traded for Everett, who was signed for another season, because Frank had a bad injury and it was unknown if he'd be able to play regularly. He only played for like 3-5 weeks in 2005 and then he got injured again. 

Wrong again. Expos signed Everett to a two year deal so he was not signed because Frank had a bad injury. 

[raBBit]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Is that still the case after this rough stretch? 

 

Google it yourself for a change. 

[Kyyle23]

Jack, my man, stop posting before you check if your memory matches what happened.  Ffs man google first it isn't hard

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

Wrong again. Expos signed Everett to a two year deal so he was not signed because Frank had a bad injury. 

Poor choice of language. When they acquired him with the extra year on his deal it was insurance for Frank's injury. 

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Google it yourself for a change. 

K, they still are 1st in fWAR. 7th in bWAR. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Ducksnort]

This is kind of morbid but can you bet on injuries in sports betting? I might jump on that wagon...

 

(kidding)

Edited July 6, 2021 by ScooterMcGee

[raBBit]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Poor choice of language. When they acquired him with the extra year on his deal it was insurance for Frank's injury. 

Poor choice of language? When you were wrong the first time you said typo when my post didn't have one. Maybe you should check if what you say is true before stating it like it is the truth.

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

K, they still are 1st in fWAR. Going to check bWAR now. 

Let us know if that fits your argument. 

[chw42]

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Is that still the case after this rough stretch? 

 

I was curious just how bad our pitching has been since the sticky ban.

Since 6/21

Starters: 10th in fWAR, 5.34 ERA/3.79 FIP with a .338 BABIP

Relievers: 24th in WAR, 6.49 ERA/5.90 FIP

 

Starters definitely falling on some bad batted ball luck, although we were pretty fortunate for the first 3 months. So maybe this is an expected regression. Bullpen has been god awful. Overall: bad. Keep in mind this doesn't include the Houston series where we got our ass beat just about every game. 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by chw42

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I was curious just how bad our pitching has been since the sticky ban.

Since 6/21

Starters: 10th in fWAR, 5.34 ERA/3.79 FIP with a .338 BABIP

Relievers: 24th in WAR, 6.49 ERA/5.90 FIP

 

Starters definitely falling on some bad batted ball luck, although we were pretty fortunate for the first 3 months. So maybe this is an expected regression. Bullpen has been god awful. Overall: bad. Keep in mind this doesn't include the Houston series where we got our ass beat just about every game. 

 

Would like to see that compared across the board to other teams and see if it is consistent with other team jumps 

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Would like to see that compared across the board to other teams and see if it is consistent with other team jumps 

I put the rank in fWAR in there as a comparison. It's hard to gauge this cause it's only a 12 game sample, but the pitching is clearly regressing (like we all expected at some point). How much it regresses along with the impact of the sticky ban is the more interesting question. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

No I know what one looks like and that's why I'm kinda bummed. 

I wish the Sox had some serious competition in the ALC so we had a better gauge where they truly are. The ALC is pretty pathetic. Worst division in baseball. 

Our serious competition is every road game.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I put the rank in fWAR in there as a comparison. It's hard to gauge this cause it's only a 12 game sample, but the pitching is clearly regressing (like we all expected at some point). How much it regresses along with the impact of the sticky ban is the more interesting question. 

To be clear I am not asking you to do this work I'm sure a mlb reporter is doing somewhere it a we type this 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

The 05 team is an example that should make you optimistic, not pessimistic.  They weren't "that well constructed in February" -- give me a break, they weren't some perfectly assembled superteam.  Nobody even picked them to win their division.  They just clicked, had some great individual performances, and got hot at the right times with a team less talented than this one will be once Eloy and Robert come back.  They were healthy outside the closer position?  I guess if you don't count losing literally the best player in White Sox franchise history for the season.  And who says we don't have a rookie ready to step in and shove?  There are many, many more realistic examples of impact young players on this team than there were at this point in 2005.  My advice:  just keep watching and hoping for the best, and maybe scream into your pillow rather than onto this board.

Yeah I mean we all kind of thought they needed to be deeper, but when you look at the players we have lost, and the lengths of time we have lost them, yet here we are still in first place by 6 games... you can't really argue they weren't deep enough very effectively.  It has been surreal to be honest.  I said it in another thread, but if you told me in Februrary we'd be running an OF of Brian Goodwin, Jake Lamb and Luis Gonzalez, with guys like Jake Burger and Gavin Sheets also on the same roster, and giving Ryan Burr key set up man innings.out there at some point, I'd be asking how close we were to the #1 pick next year.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah I mean we all kind of thought they needed to be deeper, but when you look at the players we have lost, and the lengths of time we have lost them, yet here we are still in first place by 6 games... you can't really argue they weren't deep enough very effectively.  It has been surreal to be honest.  I said it in another thread, but if you told me in Februrary we'd be running an OF of Brian Goodwin, Jake Lamb and Luis Gonzalez, with guys like Jake Burger and Gavin Sheets also on the same roster, and giving Ryan Burr key set up man innings.out there at some point, I'd be asking how close we were to the #1 pick next year.

This is where Tony's HOF baseball person moniker is a compliment and not an insult. It's reminiscent of those Cardinals teams that would have players go down and unknown retreads come up and they'd only have a minor dropoff. 

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

Poor choice of language? When you were wrong the first time you said typo when my post didn't have one. Maybe you should check if what you say is true before stating it like it is the truth.

To be fair, I didn't understand what you were saying in the bolded part below either.

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

Jack is putting in all his marbles in the "Sox aren't a title contender" basket because unless they become the 1 team of the 30 to win it all he can say I told you so. 

The Sox will win the Central. They've had of the best pitching in all of baseball. If they have Robert, Eloy and Grandal healthy and in the lineup in September you're just wrong. Whether they win it all or not. This is baseball. You do whatever to get to October and hope the luck goes your way once you're there. Speaking in absolutes about winning a World Series in baseball just shows a lack of understanding or bias. 

 

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Snopek said:

To be fair, I didn't understand what you were saying in the bolded part below either.

 

He forgot the word "some", as in "some of the best pitching"

[thedoctor]

starting to feel like a late-afternoon somber rick hahn press conference kind of day.

[Dick Allen]

I am not a medical professional, but I am thinking even if he had sat out a week, that calf was a ticking time bomb and the same thing was going to happen. There really was no good answer IMO. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 hours ago, Baron said:

I have zero desire to see Collins at the plate full time. His defense is non existent along with pitch framing. I remember a stat not too long ago(probably about a month ago) showing umpires most missed pitches against us this season were in games where Collins was the catcher. That's not a coincidence. Him playing more isn't going to help. 

I dont know that there are a lot of other options, apart from rolling with Collins/Zavala in the interim. 

 

I mean, I don't see a whole lot of substantially-better options that are readily available at an acceptable cost of acquisition. Or at an acceptable cost/contract length after having been acquired. This sucks to have Grandal go down, no doubt. And this training staff is doing themselves very few favors with the choices that they've made.

But, meh. Next man up. And here's hoping that Hahn's presser isn't too depressing.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[South Side Hit Men]

All I know is I don't want Grandal, Eloy, Luis, Engel (and Madrigal next year) to return to the field until they are 100% recovered from their respective injuries. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is where Tony's HOF baseball person moniker is a compliment and not an insult. It's reminiscent of those Cardinals teams that would have players go down and unknown retreads come up and they'd only have a minor dropoff. 

Lol

[ChiSox59]

Hoping for good news.  I was at the game and it and didn't look good.  Watched the highlight last night and looked even worse.  At the game looked like his thigh or upper leg - the replay looked much more like an achilles injury.

This team can probably get by without Grandal for 6 weeks or so.  BUt if this is a season-ender, WOOF.  Despite being hated by a good chunk of (clueless) Sox fans, Grandal is a HUGE part of this team and would be the 4th devastating blow we've encountered.  At some point, it just becomes too much to weather.  Thankfully, Eloy and Luis should (god willing) help fill some of the offensive gap.  But we're at least 6 weeks away from that.  Collins has definitely improved as a catcher, but he is not an everyday guy. Zavala certainly isn't the answer.  Going to need to find something in the trade market if Grandal's season is over. Welp. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I am not a medical professional, but I am thinking even if he had sat out a week, that calf was a ticking time bomb and the same thing was going to happen. There really was no good answer IMO. 

I dont like calling for people's jobs, but clearing grandal so soon for game play and him immediately badly hurting the same muscle is a fireable offense imo.