The "Could Feasibly Happen, but Would Still Be a Big Deal" Trades

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Fraizer is also interesting in place of Escobar - because he would give us more value than just a rental, like Gallo.

2021
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada
1B - Abreu
RF - Gallo
DH - Eloy
2B - Fraizer
CF - Robert
LF - Vaughn
C - Me

2022
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada
1B - Abreu
RF - Gallo
DH - Eloy
2B - Madrigal
CF - Robert
LF - Fraizer*
C - Grandal

*Trade Vaughn for a SP to offset losing anyone.

It would but then you are talking about a guy who plays 2nd base primarily and moving him into the OF and trading Vaughn for a pitcher.  Costs less for Frazier than Gallo but Gallo is the bigger impact both hitting and fielding since he would play in his natural position of RF. Plus Frazier doesn't hit HR's and a big HR has the most influence can make up deficits, increase leads, and snatch dramatic late inning victories from the jaws of defeat.

I'd rather not trade Vaughn and just ride with some extra relievers and deal with starting pitching after this year is over and we see how Rodon and Lynn situations shake out.

Edited July 8, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[hi8is]

29 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It would but then you are talking about a guy who plays 2nd base primarily and moving him into the OF and trading Vaughn for a pitcher.  Costs less for Frazier than Gallo but Gallo is the bigger impact both hitting and fielding since he would play in his natural position of RF. Plus Frazier doesn't hit HR's and a big HR has the most influence can make up deficits, increase leads, and snatch dramatic late inning victories from the jaws of defeat.

I'd rather not trade Vaughn and just ride with some extra relievers and deal with starting pitching after this year is over and we see how Rodon and Lynn situations shake out.

Yea that's certainly a fair take as well, of course.

[CentralChamps21]

Frazier has a .467 SLG which is higher than everybody on the Sox with > 100 PA, so can we stop with all this talk of him being some sort of singles hitter with no power?

[hi8is]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Frazier has a .467 SLG which is higher than everybody on the Sox with > 100 PA, so can we stop with all this talk of him being some sort of singles hitter with no power?

The concern people have is regarding sustaining it since it’s a new development in his game.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:19 PM, hi8is said:

The concern people have is regarding sustaining it since it’s a new development in his game.

He hits a lot of doubles and has 4 triples that give him that Slg% . He also has just 4 HR's. The Sox needed more power before Grandal got hurt.

Now with Grandal out which takes out not only his power but also his OBP. I don't object to a fine player like Frazier only because of his lack of HR's. That's the biggest reason but he is also a 2nd baseman with 2022 on his contract and the Sox have Madrigal. So yea I'd be fine with a rental like Escobar who hit's HR's , switch hits and can play 3rd also or Gallo who brings monster power and plays RF very well who also has 2022 left on his contract without anyone in his way. Gallo is a 40 HR hitter in any season he's had with over 500 AB's.

Edited July 9, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[joejoesox]

Who says no? Moncada + prospects for Jose Ramirez + Salary relief

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Who says no? Moncada + prospects for Jose Ramirez + Salary relief

Cleveland 

[joejoesox]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Cleveland 

What would it take to get them to trade Jose Ramirez?  You think the Sox have the chips?

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

What would it take to get them to trade Jose Ramirez?  You think the Sox have the chips?

They wouldn't trade Ramirez to a division rival. 

If Ramirez is traded, it's probably to a team in the NL. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Who says no? Moncada + prospects for Jose Ramirez + Salary relief

Trading for Moncada doesn’t exactly give them salary relief haha

[Quin]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Who says no? Moncada + prospects for Jose Ramirez + Salary relief

The Sox.

Selling a hurt Moncada that is still putting up elite defensive and OBP with prospects is bad. I know Jack is worried about power, but that's it.

The other is older and signed through 2023.  One dude is younger and signed through 2025. Plus prospects. For a difference in .3 fWAR (I know that's not the end-all be-all, but it's the easiest way to quantify it).

[joejoesox]

5 hours ago, manbearpuig said:

Trading for Moncada doesn’t exactly give them salary relief haha

I had no idea Moncada will be making 13m/17m/24m/25m in '22/'23/'24/'25

for some reason I thought the Sox had him signed to some kind of Quintana-esque deal.  I missed that memo

 Jesus Christ, that contract is gonna be verrrrrrry interesting in a couple years.  so yeah, I don't see Cleveland being even remotely interested in Moncada+ prospects.  RIP

for what it's worth I'd rather have Jose Ramirez for the remainder of his deal than Moncada and his

[Lillian]

It's going to be very interesting to see if Moncada lives up to that contract. If you add in the $5 million buyout, in order to avoid that $25 million hit, in the last year of his contract, he would still be owed $59 million over the next 3 years, which is almost $20 million per year. Hahn might start thinking about moving him and that contract, and seeing if Burger can fill the hole at the hot corner, while providing considerable payroll relief. The money might be better spent on trying to resign Rodon and Lynn.

I can understand how many have fallen in love with Yoan's athleticism, but it has only really begun to translate to a $20 million a year level of performance, in that 2019 season. Otherwise, not so much. There were such high hopes for him, as a genuine 5 tool prospect.

So far this year, he is taking a lot of walks, while managing to always have some nagging injury. He has not proven to be very durable, or deliver much power. He plays a position where his speed is not needed and he doesn't seem interested in trying to be a base stealing threat. Although his quickness is evident on some of his more impressive plays at third, and he can throw on the run, as well as anyone I've ever seen, his routine throws are often a challenge for Abreu. As I pointed out yesterday, he has the same number of RBI's as Leury, with more plate appearances and opportunities. Given the tools and the great expectations, consider me underwhelmed.

Oh, and one thing that I have always found perplexing; Both MLB.com and Baseball Reference list him at 6' 2". My guess is 5' 10", or maybe 5' 11". Watch, sometime when you can see him standing next to other players. What's that all about? Who is responsible for that obvious inaccuracy? Please don't tell me that Moncada tells people that he's 6' 2".

Sorry for the rant. Maybe I just wish that they had talked Boston into giving up Devers, instead of Moncada. 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

It's going to be very interesting to see if Moncada lives up to that contract. If you add in the $5 million buyout, in order to avoid that $25 million hit, in the last year of his contract, he would still be owed $59 million over the next 3 years, which is almost $20 million per year. Hahn might start thinking about moving him and that contract, and seeing if Burger can fill the hole at the hot corner, while providing considerable payroll relief. The money might be better spent on trying to resign Rodon and Lynn.

I can understand how many have fallen in love with Yoan's athleticism, but it has only really begun to translate to a $20 million a year level of performance, in that 2019 season. Otherwise, not so much. There were such high hopes for him, as a genuine 5 tool prospect.

So far this year, he is taking a lot of walks, while managing to always have some nagging injury. He has not proven to be very durable, or deliver much power. He plays a position where his speed is not needed and he doesn't seem interested in trying to be a base stealing threat. Although his quickness is evident on some of his more impressive plays at third, and he can throw on the run, as well as anyone I've ever seen, his routine throws are often a challenge for Abreu. As I pointed out yesterday, he has the same number of RBI's as Leury, with more plate appearances and opportunities. Given the tools and the great expectations, consider me underwhelmed.

Oh, and one thing that I have always found perplexing; Both MLB.com and Baseball Reference list him at 6' 2". My guess is 5' 10", or maybe 5' 11". Watch, sometime when you can see him standing next to other players. What's that all about? Who is responsible for that obvious inaccuracy? Please don't tell me that Moncada tells people that he's 6' 2".

Sorry for the rant. Maybe I just wish that they had talked Boston into giving up Devers, instead of Moncada. 

So do you want lefty bats or lefty power bats?

[Bob Sacamano]

8 hours ago, Quin said:

The Sox.

Selling a hurt Moncada that is still putting up elite defensive and OBP with prospects is bad. I know Jack is worried about power, but that's it.

The other is older and signed through 2023.  One dude is younger and signed through 2025. Plus prospects. For a difference in .3 fWAR (I know that's not the end-all be-all, but it's the easiest way to quantify it).

The poster meant giving the Indians salary relief (since they seem into that), which it does not. 

[Lillian]

42 minutes ago, Quin said:

So do you want lefty bats or lefty power bats?

I almost always specify left handed power hitters, or "middle of the order LH bats". When speaking about contact hitters, like Madrigal, I don't think that it matters much.  To begin with, an opposing manager is very unlikely to bring in a reliever to face that kind of hitter. Moreover, contact hitters are generally able to achieve more even split stats. Managers don't go to the pen for match ups, when facing the bottom third of the order. Where the lineup can affect such decisions, is in the heart of the order. Having a good balance of RH and LH hitters in the middle of the lineup, can pose a real challenge to opposing managers.

Then there is the matter of trying to mount an effective offense against certain pitchers, who have a history of dominating hitters, from one side of the plate. It's very common to face a RH pitcher, who is very effective against RH hitters. That's not surprising, in that breaking balls which move from inside, to away are more commonly a challenge for hitters. If there is a significant lack of LH power in the lineup, it can be especially hard to score runs off of such a RH pitcher. And, as we are often reminded, there are many more pitchers, who are right handed.

It is this philosophy that has led me to be so dissuaded from the idea of trading for Adam Frazier. Not only is he not a power hitter, but I don't even regard the fact that he hits left handed, as being all that advantageous. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Lillian

[Kyyle23]

? I can't anymore with this 

[Quin]

3 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I almost always specify left handed power hitters, or "middle of the order LH bats". When speaking about contact hitters, like Madrigal, I don't think that it matters much.  To begin with, an opposing manager is very unlikely to bring in a reliever to face that kind of hitter. Moreover, contact hitters are generally able to achieve more even split stats. Managers don't go to the pen for match ups, when facing the bottom third of the order. Where the lineup can affect such decisions, is in the heart of the order. Having a good balance of RH and LH hitters in the middle of the lineup, can pose a real challenge to opposing managers.

Then there is the matter of trying to mount an effective offense against certain pitchers, who have a history of dominating hitters, from one side of the plate. It's very common to face a RH pitcher, who is very effective against RH hitters. That's not surprising, in that breaking balls which move from inside, to away are more commonly a challenge for hitters. If there is a significant lack of LH power in the lineup, it can be especially hard to score runs off of such a RH pitcher. And, as we are often reminded, there are many more pitchers, who are right handed.

It is this philosophy that has led me to be so dissuaded from the idea of trading for Adam Frazier. Not only is he not a power hitter, but I don't even regard the fact that he hits left handed, as being all that advantageous. 

Then why in God's name did you think Grady Sizemore would find his power again for years and years after his age 27 season when he had 0 home runs, but Moncada can't in his age 26 season with 5 home runs so far with a dead ball? Is it because Moncada focuses on getting on base and Sizemore only cared about swinging for the fences? Is it because Moncada gets on base at an elite clip and put up a better OPS (.915) than Sizemore ever did with less home runs? His OPS this season, .788, is the exact same as Sizemore's last good year.

None of this is account for his injuries that can sap power, which is a legitimate concern, or the fact that they just banned sticky stuff which could see power numbers come back.

[Lillian]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

Then why in God's name did you think Grady Sizemore would find his power again for years and years after his age 27 season when he had 0 home runs, but Moncada can't in his age 26 season with 5 home runs so far with a dead ball? Is it because Moncada focuses on getting on base and Sizemore only cared about swinging for the fences? Is it because Moncada gets on base at an elite clip and put up a better OPS (.915) than Sizemore ever did with less home runs? His OPS this season, .788, is the exact same as Sizemore's last good year.

None of this is account for his injuries that can sap power, which is a legitimate concern, or the fact that they just banned sticky stuff which could see power numbers come back.

You have quite a memory. I was interested in a potential come back for Sizemore, when he was about to turn 32. It didn't seem to be an unreasonable gamble that he might still have been young enough to regain some of his earlier prowess. Perhaps it's my age that makes it difficult to consider a 32 year old, hopelessly "over the hill". At any rate, I don't see the relevance of bringing Grady Sizemore into the discussion. In his brief career, Sizemore was a better player, than Moncada has shown to be, so far. A brief glance at the stats Grady put up, through the same ages that Moncada has played so far, would demonstrate that he was a better player. 

Regarding Moncada; I hope that he will be the player that he has the potential to be and that we briefly saw during the 5 months, in which he was on the field, in 2019.     If his .400 OBP and stellar defense at 3RD, are enough to satisfy you, that's your prerogative. I want more from the guy hitting 3RD in the lineup, and about to begin receiving a substantial portion of the team's player salaries, than the 5 homers and 37 RBI's, which he has produced so far. 

[Kyyle23]

45 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I almost always specify left handed power hitters, or "middle of the order LH bats". When speaking about contact hitters, like Madrigal, I don't think that it matters much.  To begin with, an opposing manager is very unlikely to bring in a reliever to face that kind of hitter. Moreover, contact hitters are generally able to achieve more even split stats. Managers don't go to the pen for match ups, when facing the bottom third of the order. Where the lineup can affect such decisions, is in the heart of the order. Having a good balance of RH and LH hitters in the middle of the lineup, can pose a real challenge to opposing managers.

Then there is the matter of trying to mount an effective offense against certain pitchers, who have a history of dominating hitters, from one side of the plate. It's very common to face a RH pitcher, who is very effective against RH hitters. That's not surprising, in that breaking balls which move from inside, to away are more commonly a challenge for hitters. If there is a significant lack of LH power in the lineup, it can be especially hard to score runs off of such a RH pitcher. And, as we are often reminded, there are many more pitchers, who are right handed.

It is this philosophy that has led me to be so dissuaded from the idea of trading for Adam Frazier. Not only is he not a power hitter, but I don't even regard the fact that he hits left handed, as being all that advantageous. 

Adam Frazier is beating Escobar in every category except home runs and rbi, and he is a lead off hitter.  Every stat is slanted in his favor 

[Lillian]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Adam Frazier is beating Escobar in every category except home runs and rbi, and he is a lead off hitter.  Every stat is slanted in his favor 

I assume that you would prefer Frazier, even considering the increased cost in prospects. Where would he play next season? Is he your right fielder, next year?

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Lillian said:

I assume that you would prefer Frazier, even considering the increased cost in prospects. Where would he play next season? Is he your right fielder, next year?

I'm not worried about next year 

[Kyyle23]

To me the Sox aren't looking to trade to replace those home runs you desperately want from the left side, they are trying to replace Madrigals production.  They seem set on getting Eloy and Robert back to increase the power production, they need a pest that can play second and get on base.  Frazier does that better than Escobar.  That doesn't mean I don't like Escobar or don't want Escobar, if they acquired him I would still be happy.  I just don't know if they trust his health and I believe Frazier is the better bet this season.

 

[Lillian]

17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

To me the Sox aren't looking to trade to replace those home runs you desperately want from the left side, they are trying to replace Madrigals production.  They seem set on getting Eloy and Robert back to increase the power production, they need a pest that can play second and get on base.  Frazier does that better than Escobar.  That doesn't mean I don't like Escobar or don't want Escobar, if they acquired him I would still be happy.  I just don't know if they trust his health and I believe Frazier is the better bet this season.

 

I respect that opinion. I just differ. This team is near the bottom in home runs and just lost Grandal, for most of the rest of the year. Eloy will certainly be a welcome partial solution, but I'd like to replace Grandal's production, more than Madrigals. We have a couple guys who can play second base. I'm also hopeful that they can do better next year, with the hole in RF, which would belong to Frazier, if he were acquired.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Lillian

[southsider2k5]

One angle that could be really interesting is Nelson Cruz.  He is a DH only, and half of the AL is ready to be sellers, while most other teams have the position covered.  Figure out a way to get him here, and then let Eloy split some time in LF and DH.