Is it time to give TLR his due? And maybe some apologies?

[soulfly]

The team is winning in spite of TLR.  So no, no one owes him a goddamn thing.

[35thstreetswarm]

You can’t help but be impressed by how this team is holding it together despite the injuries.  He deserves at least some credit for that. I remain worried that he’ll make catastrophic in-game decisions in the playoffs, but will be happy to give him credit if they make a deep run and he manages to avoid the unforced errors I fear.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

The team has been decimated by injuries, but is absolutely crushing the division. "Tony's guys" like Leury and Hamilton would get shit on left and right for being played too often. Now they are fan favorites and are integral to the team. No matter who goes down, the team steps up and finds a way to win. 

Maybe it's time to give TLR his due? Going further, there are plenty of people here that have said some very mean things about TLR. Very nasty things. Many people owe him an apology, including myself. I'm sorry Tony. Ricky renteria wouldn't be carrying this team like TLR has. The team and is simply united. It looks like a storybook season tbh. 

Personally, this has been the best summer of my life. I love La Russa Ball where the next guy always steps up and the train keeps rolling. Very reminiscent of his Cardinal teams. It’s fun to watch and it’s the most invested in a team I’ve been. I’ve also made a lot of friends with LaRusstans on Discord and here. Tony La Russa has impacted my life positively and I’m grateful for it. 

[Tnetennba]

24 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

You can’t help but be impressed by how this team is holding it together despite the injuries.  He deserves at least some credit for that. I remain worried that he’ll make catastrophic in-game decisions in the playoffs, but will be happy to give him credit if they make a deep run and he manages to avoid the unforced errors I fear.

Well said.  However we have no way of knowing whether a different manager would be able to hold this team together just the same through all of the obstacles.  It is unquantifiable, and why I find it difficult to credit TLR specifically for keeping the team afloat in the face of his continual blunders.  Those error prone patterns worry me as well and it’s why I unequivocally believe this team would be better off with a better manager. 

[Dominikk85]

The team definitely has outplayed expectations and projections but I'm not sure you can put that on TLR. 

But yeah, if you win the division with a team that loses like 10 wins to the DL that probably means some strong manager of the year considerations. 

But of course the Sox need to pull that through first, in June they already came down some with a 13 and 12 record (which is still fine considering the injuries but a bad June could change that). 

I would be fine if they play 500 in June and then hopefully pick up again in mid August when guys come back. 

[Chimpton]

Genuine question, do you think the White Sox would be doing better, the same or worse if Ricky R was still manager? 

[bmags]

3 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Genuine question, do you think the White Sox would be doing better, the same or worse if Ricky R was still manager? 

I think This team which has excellent starting pitching but a slumping bullpen, TLR is getting more wins out of.

RRs bullpen management was so bad it showed even when he had a great group like last year.

But - I think Sox would be about the same with 95% of managers, personally. RR was really bad though.

[NWINFan]

My opposition to LaRussa was based on the Front Office's decision not even to interview or consider anyone else.  My mind hasn't been changed since then. The reasoning behind this decision just didn't make any sense.

The Yermin situation was totally botched. Give LaRussa credit for the team's record at this point. However, I don't think he is the long-run solution to the manager's job. I'd like to have someone else in the position in 2022.

No apologies from me. Besides, this season isn't over yet, and the White Sox haven't won anything at this point.

[Chimpton]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think This team which has excellent starting pitching but a slumping bullpen, TLR is getting more wins out of.

RRs bullpen management was so bad it showed even when he had a great group like last year.

But - I think Sox would be about the same with 95% of managers, personally. RR was really bad though.

Do you think TLR has coped well with all the lineup changes caused by injuries? The team is still winning despite all the chopping and changing.

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

His game management still leaves a lot to be desired and still puts games in jeopardy - as recently as this road trip.  Let’s not pretend that the next man up chemistry/magic washes all of that way.  They still play dumb / bad D far too often and really are still afloat because of a terrible division.  Not everything is TLR’s fault by any means and despite so many obstacles he’s also not the entire reason why they are in 1st.  I still firmly believe they have a better record with a better manager. 

Baseball is a game where the decision you make today can affect the game tomorrow.  I was critical of TRL resting Anderson on Tuesday since we have the AS break next week. I was panicked after losing the two games in Detroit and the Grandal injury.   However, we won the Tuesday game and yesterday Tim goes 4 for 4 and looks lots better.  He plays everyone so they are ready when needed.  His in-game decisions irk me often but those decisions work out frequently.  At the end of the day, TRL has won a lot of baseball games and he knows it's a long season.

[Bossanoveralls]

Say what you will about Tony LaRussa.

I say he's no Terry Bevington.

[SCCWS]

7 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Well said.  However we have no way of knowing whether a different manager would be able to hold this team together just the same through all of the obstacles.  It is unquantifiable, and why I find it difficult to credit TLR specifically for keeping the team afloat in the face of his continual blunders.  Those error prone patterns worry me as well and it’s why I unequivocally believe this team would be better off with a better manager. 

 Of course the team  would be better off if we had a better manager. The team would also be worse if we had a worse manager. 

I did not like the hire from Day 1 but given the injuries and the extent of time lost, it is amazing how this team has performed. This is really 1/2 MLB and 1/2 AAAA positional player roster.  Added to that is none of Anderson, Moncada, Abreu and Grandal have not had  All-Star performances so far to help offset the injuries. Basically we have had a miracle stretch by Mercedes and the rest of the roster performing good enough in stretches to carry the offense. The pitching for the most past has been very good.  

[Goober]

Nope what’s his obp and era this year

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Chimpton said:

Do you think TLR has coped well with all the lineup changes caused by injuries? The team is still winning despite all the chopping and changing.

I don’t think there would be a difference in the offense no.

[Harry Chappas]

5 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Genuine question, do you think the White Sox would be doing better, the same or worse if Ricky R was still manager? 

I look at Edwin last year.  Maybe there were not better options and over a 162 game season they would have cut bait but Tony seems to accept the youth more than Rickey or maybe the front office does now, who knows but the Wellington Castillo's  are not getting the looks under Tony as they did Ricky and I like that. 

 

 

[ron883]

@Balta1701 @southsider2k5 ready to apologize?

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, ron883 said:

@Balta1701 @southsider2k5 ready to apologize?

Surely that will work.  We’re not in a Korean drama here…and it’s not like TLR or JR will apologize to fans for not adding at the trade deadline or especially if we lose in the ALDS to Boston or Houston (etc.) and both Lynn and Rodon eventually leave the team via FA.

If we get to the World Series, or at least the ALCS and TLR isn’t perceived like RR last October as being one of the primary reasons for the loss, that’s the appropriate time for such a thread.   Remember, fifteen years ago, we were 26 games over .500 at the ASB and nobody would have ever dreamed there would be just two playoff appearances in a generation to look forward to.

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, ron883 said:

@Balta1701 @southsider2k5 ready to apologize?

No.

[The Grinder]

Are we in 1st place because of Tony or despite him?

[Jerksticks]

It just seems so clear that the FO knew RR wasn’t the guy, and couldn’t in good conscience let him take the reins for 2021. 
 

So I’m of the opinion that the guy they wanted to lead the team long term through this dynasty wasn’t available this offseason. 
 

So if that’s the case, then a placeholder was needed.  The TLR hiring makes more sense under that light.  

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Are we in 1st place because of Tony or despite him?

Both.

[EloyJenkins]

I will apologize when they shift properly. But stubborness still rules the day to day decisions. 

I will say that his lineups look crazy some days, but have been mostly successful and outside of Yermin sillyness, he has mostly kept his mouth shut. I still would rather have Hinch, but for the next 2-3 seasons they can win a world series with TLR, and that is all that really matters. 

[Snopek]

The team is in a great spot, especially considering the injuries, but they haven't won a damn thing. The storybook season and comparisons to 05 are all warm and fuzzy, but the 06 team was also cruising in the first half.

[southsider2k5]

35 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Are we in 1st place because of Tony or despite him?

This season is tough to measure versus last for a couple of reasons.

#1 and #2 are the teams behind us took major hits this off season.  The Indians got significantly worse, as did the Twins, before they ever stepped on to the field.  They either dealt, or didn't replace, key players.

#3, while the Sox have had key injuries, so have the Twins and Indians on top of their off season losses.  While the Sox losses have been position players, Cleveland has lost a ton of pitching, while our has stayed healthy.  We obviously don't have the ability to counterfactual, but it would have been interesting to be able to put Ricky into 2021, and Tony into 2020 to see how each handled those situations.

#4, it isn't hard to argue that a lot of the success of this season is Rick Hahn and company putting in a big effort in March/April/May to bring key players to the MiLB rosters who were later able to step into key roles (such as Hamilton, Goodwin, Lamb, etc) to keep this team afloat, as well as the MiLB staff changes really paying off in both drafting and development to have kids ready to also step into key roles at key times.

#5 starting pitching is better so far, but again a question mark with the substances changes, while the bullpen is definitely worse, despite both having much more talent in 2021 than RR had.  Fielding and baseball IQ hasn't really seemed to change past the obvious personnel changes.  Hitting has been affected more by injuries than players ascending or descending as a whole.

#6, so far the things I feared most under TLR didn't happen, while the things I feared least did happen.  I have been blowing away by some of the incredible lapses of Tony from the managerial and technical sides of things, while being impressed that despite all of the adversity of this year the team has never really broken.  The Yermin incident and the multiple times of having no idea what is going on in a game right in front of TLR are inexcusable.  The team leadership holding steady and never bending or breaking through everything is incredible.  Going into 2021, I had the complete opposite expectations.

#7, as Jon Bon Jovi said, we are half way there.  RR was fine through the first 90% of last season, and then the stretch run and playoffs got him.  Do we know what this team is going to do when the pressure is on?  Nope.  We have a few small sample sizes, but so far this team hasn't shown they are giant slayers, only bullies against the week.  You won't fully be able to put together a final judgment until we see the stretch run. 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Absolutely not.. He has been one of the worst managers in the MLB.