2021-22 NBA Thread

[bmags]

40 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Can someone explain to me why DDR was considered done?  Dude is having a special start to this season

I could write a million words on this.

As a fan, I definitely feel a circle the wagons effect whenever it feels like sportswriter groupthink pile-on occurs. I didn't initially know what to think right away, because like a lot of people, I did not watch a minute of the Demar DeRozan spurs. It turns out, none of the writers did either!

But when the pile-on kept coming it just seemed like some obviously stupid points were being made.

My fav:

1. Bulls were signing DeRozan as a negotiation hedge to prepare for Lavine's departure (when their own logic of trying to build a winner around Levine so he'd stay seemed so much more obviously likely)

2. The bulls were stupid for signing a high usage player and taking the ball out of Zach's hands when it was obvious they desperately needed another ball handler to relieve Zach last year and Ball really isn't that

But then it was also clear a consistent thing that happens with mostly nfl writers but sometimes NBA writers (who in general I find to be the next best behind baseball writers), is they are just prone to slamming a good-not-great player like DeRozan, whose biggest strength (iso and mid-range) are the things holding him back from being great in the modern NBA.

And, they missed that he had evolved into a great playmaker in San Antonio, and that has been evident in Chicago. Zach gets on heaters throughout the game, DeRozan is always on one, and if he wasn't here what would our second unit be exactly?

So I will give a lot of credit to Kevin O'Connor of the ringer who identified all of these trends and was definitely the only person who watched San Antonio DeRozan. Simmons initially got all of this right, then right before the season was talking about how 1) and 2) were going to happen. 

I don't think anyone could have predicted how well the perimeter defense would be just by Caruso and Ball shutting down the perimeter. It was my biggest gripe with signings like Jabari though. You surround Lavine with dumb IQ defenders, he gets worse as he tries to be more aggressive. Put smart players around him, he gets a lot better. Ball can be aggressive, so Lavine can just focus on assignments. Guy just wanted to win and didn't trust his teammates to make plays.

[bmags]

I think one other interesting wrinkle is some predicitions that the new officiating focus would take away from Demar's FT shooting, neutralizing that part of the signing.

Instead DeRozan's fouls have carried over fine because they are from driving and working in tight space, not coaxing defenders from the 3 point line. 

He has been everything you could ask for with the added benefit of giving Zach a true trusted leader, because from what it sounds like players love DeRozan and respect him way more than the general nba sentiment.

[Stinky Stanky]

I enjoyed Jason on the call last night.  He's better at basketball than baseball, I think.  Better than Adam too, sorry to say.  The game reminded me of some grindy Bulls defensive teams of way, way back.  

[Kyyle23]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think one other interesting wrinkle is some predicitions that the new officiating focus would take away from Demar's FT shooting, neutralizing that part of the signing.

Instead DeRozan's fouls have carried over fine because they are from driving and working in tight space, not coaxing defenders from the 3 point line. 

He has been everything you could ask for with the added benefit of giving Zach a true trusted leader, because from what it sounds like players love DeRozan and respect him way more than the general nba sentiment.

It seems pretty clear that this team enjoys being around each other and is having a lot of fun.  It should be really interesting to see them together after the all star break when there is no more summer rust and they are familiar with each other's games and the offense as a whole.

[Quin]

37 minutes ago, bmags said:

I could write a million words on this.

As a fan, I definitely feel a circle the wagons effect whenever it feels like sportswriter groupthink pile-on occurs. I didn't initially know what to think right away, because like a lot of people, I did not watch a minute of the Demar DeRozan spurs. It turns out, none of the writers did either!

But when the pile-on kept coming it just seemed like some obviously stupid points were being made.

My fav:

1. Bulls were signing DeRozan as a negotiation hedge to prepare for Lavine's departure (when their own logic of trying to build a winner around Levine so he'd stay seemed so much more obviously likely)

2. The bulls were stupid for signing a high usage player and taking the ball out of Zach's hands when it was obvious they desperately needed another ball handler to relieve Zach last year and Ball really isn't that

But then it was also clear a consistent thing that happens with mostly nfl writers but sometimes NBA writers (who in general I find to be the next best behind baseball writers), is they are just prone to slamming a good-not-great player like DeRozan, whose biggest strength (iso and mid-range) are the things holding him back from being great in the modern NBA.

And, they missed that he had evolved into a great playmaker in San Antonio, and that has been evident in Chicago. Zach gets on heaters throughout the game, DeRozan is always on one, and if he wasn't here what would our second unit be exactly?

So I will give a lot of credit to Kevin O'Connor of the ringer who identified all of these trends and was definitely the only person who watched San Antonio DeRozan. Simmons initially got all of this right, then right before the season was talking about how 1) and 2) were going to happen. 

I don't think anyone could have predicted how well the perimeter defense would be just by Caruso and Ball shutting down the perimeter. It was my biggest gripe with signings like Jabari though. You surround Lavine with dumb IQ defenders, he gets worse as he tries to be more aggressive. Put smart players around him, he gets a lot better. Ball can be aggressive, so Lavine can just focus on assignments. Guy just wanted to win and didn't trust his teammates to make plays.

I loved this one because whenever a Big 3 assembles, no one bats an eye.

But the Bulls assemble a Decent Size 3 and suddenly no one can share the ball.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It seems pretty clear that this team enjoys being around each other and is having a lot of fun.  It should be really interesting to see them together after the all star break when there is no more summer rust and they are familiar with each other's games and the offense as a whole.

One of the things I thought would gel well here is they had 3 guys in Lavine, Vuc, and DeRozan who people would say "if they are the best player on your team ...", and I think they all carried that chip on their shoulder and were more open to taking the roles needed to win (especially Vuc, Lavine). 

Ball I think has a chip on his shoulder for being in some pretty chaotic environments, and being told what he wasn't. Those people are probably right (he's not a great half-court ball distributor), but he has a coach in Donovan who does not do that. He lets players be themselves.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

I loved this one because whenever a Big 3 assembles, no one bats an eye.

But the Bulls assemble a Decent Size 3 and suddenly no one can share the ball.

Especially because they were obtuse to the context. Who was Zach supposed to share the ball with last year, Ryan Arcidiacano? 

[bmags]

My other thoughts are, while I share in the assessment that this team needs to get another big, I think I believe now that they are good enough that they can wait until February when the buyouts start to happen and trade market heats up. I don't think they'll drown by being too small unless DDR or Zach miss a lot of time.

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

Especially because they were obtuse to the context. Who was Zach supposed to share the ball with last year, Ryan Arcidiacano? 

Man, how quickly we forget Valentine.

[Chi Town Sox]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Can someone explain to me why DDR was considered done?  Dude is having a special start to this season

I think others made some great points but to the layman, I think what he did in Toronto was forgotten about to fans outside of Toronto once Kawhi came in and won a title.  Many just assumed he was super overrated and forgot about the great run they had with him.    In SA, they stunk so despite his numbers as a playmaker, I believe people just started writing him off.

I know a guy from Toronto that still loves Derozan so much, that he flew in to Chicago just to see him play DRose a couple of weeks back.  He's still loved there, big time.  I do remember people were very hurt by that trade because they knew Kawhi wasn't going to stick around and Derozan gave everything to them, obviously, a title got them over that.  

In 2016, he was the 5th leading scorer in the NBA, that is no joke.  Then Toronto dumped his ass LOL

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chi Town Sox

[scs787]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Can someone explain to me why DDR was considered done?  Dude is having a special start to this season

I never got it either. I don't understand the knock on players who don't really shoot the 3 ball all that well. I understand they are vastly different players, but Giannis is a 2x MVP and just lead his team to a title all while shooting just 30% from 3. 

[scs787]

Bulls are number 2 on NBAs power ranking. Whoda thunk it? At this point it's hard to argue with too. They beat a red hot Clippers team, a Nets team that's 8-2 in their last 10, an unbeaten Jazz team, a Mavs team that's the #4 seed in the West, and if you wanna go back to preseason, they beat the 4th seed in the east twice too. 

[lostfan]

The Bulls got their asses kicked by GS the other day but they are really just a terrifying team, they look like the championship version of themselves again. And this is without Thompson

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, lostfan said:

The Bulls got their asses kicked by GS the other day but they are really just a terrifying team, they look like the championship version of themselves again. And this is without Thompson

Man, did they take advantage of those two down years. They've basically got their next core with Wiseman, Kuminga, Poole, and maybe Moody.

I wonder how a fully gelled Bulls with Vuc back will take on the Warriors.

[lostfan]

Running the Lakers out of the gym, you love to see it

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, lostfan said:

Running the Lakers out of the gym, you love to see it

Literally, in AD's case.

[chw42]

Lonzo is putting on a show. 

[Quin]

I feel like with the Bulls up 26 with 4 minutes left, you can take LaVine, Lonzo, and Caruso out and just put in Coby, Brown, and Alize.

Edit: Lmao, they came in right after I posted this.

[SoxAce]

12 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Lonzo is putting on a show. 

He was absolutely fantastic. DeRozan was his usual studly self. The whole team played incredible. 

[Tony]

#SeeRed

[Stinky Stanky]

Fun seeing a pretty good team crumble in LA.  Plenty of defensive energy even on a back-to-back.  And the threes were going in.  They'll all get a good night's sleep.  Me too.

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, lostfan said:

The Bulls got their asses kicked by GS the other day but they are really just a terrifying team, they look like the championship version of themselves again. And this is without Thompson

Fucking best I have ever seen a bulls game in person since the Jordan era. They destroyed the Lakers tonight. I know no Lebron but wow are the Lakers old and slow and the Bulls are the opposite - so long and athletic and the shots. 
 

Ball had revenge on his mind, Derozan was unstoppable and Zach was Zach. Where is the hot sauce…shit that was fun. 

[bmags]

4 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Fucking best I have ever seen a bulls game in person since the Jordan era. They destroyed the Lakers tonight. I know no Lebron but wow are the Lakers old and slow and the Bulls are the opposite - so long and athletic and the shots. 
 

Ball had revenge on his mind, Derozan was unstoppable and Zach was Zach. Where is the hot sauce…shit that was fun. 

Nice you made the back to back.

I have been fighting a cold but woke up almost giddy to check the box score to see what I missed. Was not shocked to see the Bulls smack them.

It is crazy night after night seeing DeRozan get 20 points easy in first half and 35+ for the game.

I have very little hope of our center-less, power forward-less team stopping Jokic and the Nuggets, but feel like we should have no problem with Portland. Famous last words.

[TheTruth05]

I'm jealous of people who were able to stay up to watch game live. Had to quit at halftime but Bulls put on a clinic. Ya love to see it

[Quin]