Quin Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Aminu went in the deal as well. I have no idea how that works cap wise since DD and Lonzo are both sign and trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Just now, scs787 said: Man. If PWill takes a jump and can handle the 4, this is a squad. Not to mention, I'm not sure Ball is done developing either. Same could be said for White as a 6th man. Exactly - talk about a flexible lineup. It is long and athletic and is more fitting of the positionless NBA. I'm curious to see what happens with Lauri - but he's a pretty good fit in units with Derozan and Vuc cause Derozan can handle the ball and Lauri can be a real nice space creating in that dynamic. This is still a pretty athletic squad and still has a ton of youth on its side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Quin said: Aminu went in the deal as well. I have no idea how that works cap wise since DD and Lonzo are both sign and trades. AMinu was just what was needed to get salaries to work. So think of it as AMinu, Thad, and the picks for DD. Bulls are over the cap - so everything they are doing is operating in that stance - so you need to hit all regular trade rules as if you were an over the cap team. I presume they are not anywhere near luxury tax land - but they are probably a lot closer now than anyone would have projected entering this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I like it. Thad and a future 1st. Don't love the future 1st but presume it has protections, etc . It's at least gotta be lottery protected, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Well the Bulls are either going to be good, or they are going to be in hell for the next half decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Fully guaranteed $85 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Think of it this way - White was one of the worst PG's in the NBA and the back court D was atrocious. They replaced that with Lonzo (who worse case is a mediocre starting PG -> best case we see more steps forward) and you have Caruso (elite defender - which was a huge hole and solid 3P shooter but on low volume). Maybe Caruso is compared to Valentine and Caruso clear upgrade. Derozan is significant upgrade compared to production they got from Williams/others on wing. So entire wing is massively upgraded -> bench stronger too (Thad gone - but replaced with White/Williams and you can assume Derozan will get some good run as a ball distributor on this side). This team is a heck of a lot better. Pretty clear team is stacking things up to be an attractive destination and next year I have a feeling this front office will just use any of these contracts and parts to S&T if the opportunity is there. This is no longer the - dont' sign anyone just in case - this is the - we are going to roll with as good of a team as we can maximizing all parts and we'll consistently churn things to get better. Front office didn't build a perfect team - but they leveraged a ton of assets to make themselves better while maintaining flexibility to move up (with the only piece being I don't think the 1st round pick was needed). I'm very pumped but do get nervous now that we've shown we can get some upper level talent we've lost the resources to get elite talent if it becomes available. But maybe thats just in trade, maybe we can get a guy via S&T now. I'm not upset at all. I think you remember as soon as the 3 alphas came in I was not a believer in putting three ball dominant poor shooters on a team in the modern NBA. This team is versatile, especially with Ball and DD. PWill with offense should be. Ball, Vucevic and Lavine can shoot from deep, and crucially DeRozan can get to the line, which this team couldn't do. It's gone from trash to what I think is a really good team. But it's certainly nervewrecking if an injury or so and so happens when picks are living with other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) Very interesting. I was all-in on DeRozan when it was rumored as Lauri as the key piece. I like Young as a bench player far better than Lauri. And I dislike giving up another first round pick considering we already lost 2 to the Magic. But, if it's lottery protected, not as big of a deal. As people have mentioned, from a cap perspective, this sets us up to trade for a superstar if one wants to force a trade - but again, we don't have 1st round draft picks as an asset to give up until 2027. That's far less attractive to any franchise who's trading away a star player. Someone mentioned it earlier, but it would be ideal if we S&T'd Lauri for a first round pick to get back some draft capital. Edited August 3, 2021 by dasox24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Well, this group has picked a lane, which is more than I can ever say for GarPax. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Well the Bulls are either going to be good, or they are going to be in hell for the next half decade. Yup. This either works out and we somehow get lucky like the Hawks and Heat did the past 2 years or this hodge podge of good but not great players doesn't work out together and we gotta absolutely blow it up in 2 years. I will say that DeRozan is probably the best FA we've lured to Chicago in a LONG time. The fact that we got Lonzo and DeRozan, 2 of the bigger names in FA, is something that never would have happened under GarPax. We definitely overpaid to do it, but that's what happens when you aren't a big FA destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Well, this group has picked a lane, which is more than I can ever say for GarPax. Exactly. It's the same as the Bears with Mitch. They made the wrong choice (obviously) but I credit them for picking a lane and saying "This is our guy, this is our path, we're going for it." If Mitch was even half the player Mahomes was/is.....with the defense they build I can't see the Bears not winning at least one SB in one of the last 4 years... GarPax were SO outdated, so out of touch. AK at least is executing a very obvious plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, chw42 said: It's at least gotta be lottery protected, right? I am hoping it is one of those never ever a shot at even a lottery pick and that if it doesn't work it eventually turns into a 2nd rounder...but that is to be seen. I am curious - wonder if we are going to see Lauri sign like a 3yr 45M type of deal or what will happen with Lauri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Well the Bulls are either going to be good, or they are going to be in hell for the next half decade. IF this is a disaster - than if people didn't get hurt - you are dealing Lavine, Vuc and others to get draft capital back and starting a new rebuild or if they all get hurt - you are in a different spot - but than probably doing things like what OKC did which is just buy whatever draft capital you can by taking on bad contracts (knowing you will suck anyway). Right now - I think Bulls strategy is keep falling forward - leveraging the tight connections this new front office has - and just keep grinding better. This offseason feels very different than any I can remember in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Exactly. It's the same as the Bears with Mitch. They made the wrong choice (obviously) but I credit them for picking a lane and saying "This is our guy, this is our path, we're going for it." If Mitch was even half the player Mahomes was/is.....with the defense they build I can't see the Bears not winning at least one SB in one of the last 4 years... GarPax were SO outdated, so out of touch. AK at least is executing a very obvious plan. I mean we will find out over time if the moves were right, but it is interesting to finally have cards on the table in the big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Exactly. It's the same as the Bears with Mitch. They made the wrong choice (obviously) but I credit them for picking a lane and saying "This is our guy, this is our path, we're going for it." If Mitch was even half the player Mahomes was/is.....with the defense they build I can't see the Bears not winning at least one SB in one of the last 4 years... GarPax were SO outdated, so out of touch. AK at least is executing a very obvious plan. My one thing is I am really struggling to see how this plan ends in a title though. At least I'll actively enjoy Bulls basketball now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, chw42 said: Yup. This either works out and we somehow get lucky like the Hawks and Heat did the past 2 years or this hodge podge of good but not great players doesn't work out together and we gotta absolutely blow it up in 2 years. I will say that DeRozan is probably the best FA we've lured to Chicago in a LONG time. The fact that we got Lonzo and DeRozan, 2 of the bigger names in FA, is something that never would have happened under GarPax. We definitely overpaid to do it, but that's what happens when you aren't a big FA destination. Since Boozer at least, maybe since Ron Harper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm very pumped but do get nervous now that we've shown we can get some upper level talent we've lost the resources to get elite talent if it becomes available. But maybe thats just in trade, maybe we can get a guy via S&T now. I'm not upset at all. I think you remember as soon as the 3 alphas came in I was not a believer in putting three ball dominant poor shooters on a team in the modern NBA. This team is versatile, especially with Ball and DD. PWill with offense should be. Ball, Vucevic and Lavine can shoot from deep, and crucially DeRozan can get to the line, which this team couldn't do. It's gone from trash to what I think is a really good team. But it's certainly nervewrecking if an injury or so and so happens when picks are living with other teams. Very true on your last point - but I also think from a depth perspective - say someone is hurt - this team has so much more depth and quality than previous Bulls teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, mqr said: My one thing is I am really struggling to see how this plan ends in a title though. At least I'll actively enjoy Bulls basketball now though. I don't know either quite frankly.....but they didn't bring AK and Donovan in to do a full rebuild. And this is probably as close and the best they could do to make them competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) Edited August 3, 2021 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, mqr said: My one thing is I am really struggling to see how this plan ends in a title though. At least I'll actively enjoy Bulls basketball now though. You won't win a title with this group. But what you did do is lay a framework so that IF you have a chance at a superstar who could put you over the top, they could squint and see a road through Chicago to a title. Before this year, there was no reason to even consider the Bulls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, chw42 said: Yup. This either works out and we somehow get lucky like the Hawks and Heat did the past 2 years or this hodge podge of good but not great players doesn't work out together and we gotta absolutely blow it up in 2 years. I will say that DeRozan is probably the best FA we've lured to Chicago in a LONG time. The fact that we got Lonzo and DeRozan, 2 of the bigger names in FA, is something that never would have happened under GarPax. We definitely overpaid to do it, but that's what happens when you aren't a big FA destination. I think if you are a 4 or 5 seed - that is 100% okay - because the strategy isn't just to roll with this group for the next 5 years - it is to constantly look at upgrading it. But being a good team is going to make it a lot easier for someone to say - hey I want to go there and at this point - I've seen real creativity out of the front office that makes me think if Harden were on the block this year - they'd figure out a way with this roster to trade various pieces to get Harden. The Harden was more of an example - but just pick your disgruntled star. If the Bulls are on the short list - I think this front office will figure out a way to do it - and than turn this 4/5 seed type of team into a 1/2 seed type of team. And rinse and repeat and just keep doing it. Kind of has a Darryl Morey type of vibe to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, dasox24 said: Very interesting. I was all-in on DeRozan when it was rumored as Lauri as the key piece. I like Young as a bench player far better than Lauri. And I dislike giving up another first round pick considering we already lost 2 to the Magic. But, if it's lottery protected, not as big of a deal. As people have mentioned, from a cap perspective, this sets us up to trade for a superstar if one wants to force a trade - but again, we don't have 1st round draft picks as an asset to give up until 2027. That's far less attractive to any franchise who's trading away a star player. Someone mentioned it earlier, but it would be ideal if we S&T'd Lauri for a first round pick to get back some draft capital. The interesting thing is Thad and Vuc didn't play very well together. Thad needs to be in the paint so off the bench he's good and he's obviously a solid vet...but with Vuc getting as many minutes as he is - the two just aren't great fits. Reality is Lauri is a better fit because both can play in space and Lauri has a bit more size that can help defensively (one underrated trend from Lauri is he has significantly improved his D). That said - we know Lauri has his flaws too - most notably his ability to stay on the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, mqr said: My one thing is I am really struggling to see how this plan ends in a title though. At least I'll actively enjoy Bulls basketball now though. It is all about getting the team better and better - so when a star is ready to leave and jump ship - you are on the short list and can actually go out and get said player. It is really that simple (and obviously in meantime you hope PWilliams / other young players make steps forward and that you draft well etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, chw42 said: Wait, the Bulls sent 3 firsts to Orlando? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Wait, the Bulls sent 3 firsts to Orlando? I think this includes the Vuc stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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