GT 8/11: SOX @ MIN, 12:10

[Balta1701]

32 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

SoxTalk (Monday): It’s so great everybody is back.

SoxTalk (Wednesday): Sox scored zero runs. It’s irrelevant Tony sat half the regulars all at once, and sat all his best relievers for another one run loss.

Tony has mastered the one run loss. His poor decision making and antiquated bullpen management is not going to magically improve, against far better teams, in October. This year, or as long as he is allowed to fester.

Ok, I will admit, this stat surprised me in how accurate it makes your rant. The White Sox are 11-18 in one-run games in 2021, I assume that's before today as ESPN won't have updated yet. The only other contender even close to that bad is Torotno at 8-13. 

The White Sox are the 4th worst team in MLB in one-run games. The only teams worse are Miami, Arizona, and Baltimore.

WTF?

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

This game was played like an NFL preseason game.  They all count the same.  No game should be punted.  The next 2 weeks or so will tell us a lot about this team. If they handle that stretch well, this will be forgotten.

Ozzie did Sunday lineups too and everyone hated them, and it didn't make a difference.  They aren't even losing ground on their division lead right now.  They have a month and a half to get out of this rut they are currently in, I think they will as soon as they are complete.  Just not gonna get all pissy after a game like this every time.  

[pcq]

Getting shutout by a minor league squad is not acceptable. All the other stuff is bs. 

[hankchifan]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Ok, I will admit, this stat surprised me in how accurate it makes your rant. The White Sox are 11-18 in one-run games in 2021, I assume that's before today as ESPN won't have updated yet. The only other contender even close to that bad is Torotno at 8-13. 

The White Sox are the 4th worst team in MLB in one-run games. The only teams worse are Miami, Arizona, and Baltimore.

WTF?

Managers influence more outcomes in one run games.  Good example was today’s game with Ruiz throwing a gopher ball for the winning run, and Anderson, Moncada and Robert on the bench in the 9th of a one run game, and we let Lamb and Leury bat instead.  Reluctance to use our best weapons in game situations due possibly to an inflexible game plan is not good management.

[maloney.adam]

Grandal is a big missing piece in this lineup. He draws walks and gets on base. If you have noticed, a lot of our guys are not being patient up there. If you plug Grandal in between one of those guys, it can make a difference. That’s what’s missing from this team right now. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by maloney.adam

[hankchifan]

8 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Grandal is a big missing piece in this lineup. He draws walks and gets on base. If you have noticed, a lot of our guys are not being patient up there. If you plug Grandal in between one of those guys, it can make a difference. That’s what’s missing from this team right now.

Also Grandal’s D is better than Collins and Zavala.

[Big Hurtin]

5 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Also Grandal’s D is better than Collins and Zavala.

Now we're getting off topic

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Capn12 said:

Bullpen use is bonkers right now, but still....gotta score more than zero, to win.

We should frame this and hang it on Tony's wall.

[Colome's Hat]

FWIW, I think Kopech should have been brought in.  Having said that, Ruiz pitched in a very high leverage situation a few weeks ago and delivered.  I think it's reasonable to expect him to be able to pitch in a lower leverage situation with nobody on base.  

I do think this game is on the offense.  They should have been able to plate a pair today.

[oldsox]

2 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Grandal is a big missing piece in this lineup. He draws walks and gets on base. If you have noticed, a lot of our guys are not being patient up there. If you plug Grandal in between one of those guys, it can make a difference. That’s what’s missing from this team right now. 

He would not have played today.

[Jerksticks]

2 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Managers influence more outcomes in one run games.  Good example was today’s game with Ruiz throwing a gopher ball for the winning run, and Anderson, Moncada and Robert on the bench in the 9th of a one run game, and we let Lamb and Leury bat instead.  Reluctance to use our best weapons in game situations due possibly to an inflexible game plan is not good management.

Dear God man!

doesn’t NOT using those guys tell you THE PLAN was to give them rest?

I assume you are an adult.  You can’t honesty believe what you wrote

 

[maloney.adam]

5 minutes ago, oldsox said:

He would not have played today.

I understand that but that’s not what I was referring to. He’s an important part of this lineup because he gets on base and can help the team generate some runs. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by maloney.adam

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Ok, I will admit, this stat surprised me in how accurate it makes your rant. The White Sox are 11-18 in one-run games in 2021, I assume that's before today as ESPN won't have updated yet. The only other contender even close to that bad is Torotno at 8-13. 

The White Sox are the 4th worst team in MLB in one-run games. The only teams worse are Miami, Arizona, and Baltimore.

WTF?

The primary two criticisms this series were valid. Keuchel has demonstrated he is not effective after 5 innings / 3rd time through. Even if Tony was "trusting his gut", or once again trying to steal an out or inning, it was irresponsible to have nobody warming up to start the inning, or leave him in after he walked Sano.

Today people are bringing up "Ozzie's Sunday Lineup", but Ozzie used primary lineups most other games. Tony is always fretting about this or that platoon, regardless of whether a player even has a platoon advantage. Rest one or two guys a game, or when you're up 8-0 after 5 innings like they were Monday vs. dumping all four bench guys into the lineup today and hoping they score a few runs. Your bench is already weakened by losing guys like Hamilton due to injury, or demoting Sheets so you can keep Lamb around to cash ML checks and play a couple games a month.

Earlier this year, I stated good managers typically have a better second half record than first, because they use the first half of the season to sort through the roster so that they can optimize usage in the second half. Tony definitely needed the benefit of the doubt this year with a brand new roster and being outside of managing for a decade (he came into 1980 familiar with the roster after taking over midway through 1979), and the team played great this first half largely due to the starting staff.

Ozzie was 64 games over .500 and three games under .500 as White Sox manager. Tony's team is once again trending this way, despite a very soft second half schedule and all but Grandal returning. Time will tell if this will continue to play out.

Tony's White Sox managerial record (First Half / Second Half)

• 1980 39-42 / 31-48
• 1981 31-22 / 23-30
• 1982 45-37 / 42-38
• 1983 42-39 / 57-24
• 1984 41-40 / 33-48
• 1985 40-41 / 45-36
• 2021 49-32 / 18-15

First Half 287-253 .531 / Second Half 249-239 .510

2021 Second Half Opponents: (White Sox Record Against, Opponent, Opponent 2021 Winning Percentage):

• 2-1 Houston .596
• 1-2 Milwaukee .596
• 2-1 Cleveland .495
• 0-2 Detroit .478
• 3-0 Chicago NL .452 <= Played after they dumped Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Kimbrel, Tepera
• 5-5 Minnesota .435 <= 1-2 after Minnesota dumped their best hitter (Cruz) and pitcher (Berrios).
• 2-5 Kansas City .434
• 3-0 Baltimore .342

[SCCWS]

26 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The primary two criticisms this series were valid. Keuchel has demonstrated he is not effective after 5 innings / 3rd time through. Even if Tony was "trusting his gut", or once again trying to steal an out or inning, it was irresponsible to have nobody warming up to start the inning, or leave him in after he walked Sano.

Today people are bringing up "Ozzie's Sunday Lineup", but Ozzie used primary lineups most other games. Tony is always fretting about this or that platoon, regardless of whether a player even has a platoon advantage. Rest one or two guys a game, or when you're up 8-0 after 5 innings like they were Monday vs. dumping all four bench guys into the lineup today and hoping they score a few runs. Your bench is already weakened by losing guys like Hamilton due to injury, or demoting Sheets so you can keep Lamb around to cash ML checks and play a couple games a month.

Earlier this year, I stated good managers typically have a better second half record than first, because they use the first half of the season to sort through the roster so that they can optimize usage in the second half. Tony definitely needed the benefit of the doubt this year with a brand new roster and being outside of managing for a decade (he came into 1980 familiar with the roster after taking over midway through 1979), and the team played great this first half largely due to the starting staff.

Ozzie was 64 games over .500 and three games under .500 as White Sox manager. Tony's team is once again trending this way, despite a very soft second half schedule and all but Grandal returning. Time will tell if this will continue to play out.

Tony's White Sox managerial record (First Half / Second Half)

• 1980 39-42 / 31-48
• 1981 31-22 / 23-30
• 1982 45-37 / 42-38
• 1983 42-39 / 57-24
• 1984 41-40 / 33-48
• 1985 40-41 / 45-36
• 2021 49-32 / 18-15

First Half 287-253 .531 / Second Half 249-239 .510

2021 Second Half Opponents: (White Sox Record Against, Opponent, Opponent 2021 Winning Percentage):

• 2-1 Houston .596
• 1-2 Milwaukee .596
• 2-1 Cleveland .495
• 0-2 Detroit .478
• 3-0 Chicago NL .452 <= Played after they dumped Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Kimbrel, Tepera
• 5-5 Minnesota .435 <= 1-2 after Minnesota dumped their best hitter (Cruz) and pitcher (Berrios).
• 2-5 Kansas City .434
• 3-0 Baltimore .342

Sometimes the 2nd half roster is better than the first half with trades at the deadline.  It is early but so far in AL East, Tampa, NY and Toronto enhanced their roster and Boston did not.  As a result a big swing in records so far. White Sox have a much better 2nd half roster than 1st so Sox should be playing much better.  

[South Side Hit Men]

23 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Sometimes the 2nd half roster is better than the first half with trades at the deadline.  It is early but so far in AL East, Tampa, NY and Toronto enhanced their roster and Boston did not.  As a result a big swing in records so far. White Sox have a much better 2nd half roster than 1st so Sox should be playing much better.  

Hopefully they will once Robert and Eloy can play regularly. Rodon will be a big loss if he misses more than a few starts, especially since they aren't considering Kopech for starts like they did in the first half, despite the fact they acquired two solid backend relievers. Not sure why Katz said Kopech's role would be limited to short high leverage playoff appearances. when a solid pitcher who can give you 2-3 innings in the playoffs is much more valuable.

Just hoping they can return to first half form, with the improved lineup (CF, RF, 2B and in September C) and fortified bullpen, offsetting any possible starter regression. Really hope they activate Hamilton for the playoffs, he can single handedly win a game with his glove or on the base paths.

[elrockinMT]

What did bullpen management have to with a 1-0 loss? The players in the Sox lineup today are major league players.  Ruiz gave up the usual bases empty homer, but looked good otherwise.  We got beat today. It happens but no reason to start hating on players or the manager. 

[hankchifan]

5 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Dear God man!

doesn’t NOT using those guys tell you THE PLAN was to give them rest?

I assume you are an adult.  You can’t honesty believe what you wrote

 

I am an adult who has played and watched baseball for many decades.  You need to be able to adjust a plan if circumstances merit it.  One at bat by either Anderson, Moncada and/or Robert,instead of Lamb and Leury, in a 1-0 game in the 9 th was justifiable.  Game plans are adjusted in football and basketball all the time during games.

[hankchifan]

9 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Do you always complain no matter if they are winning or not because it seems like your doing a lot of it the past two days? Lol

I only complain on bad losses like the last 2 games/days.  Losses which I believe where avoidable.

[hi8is]

Both points of view are valid. Just move on and be happy we get to watch baseball again tomorrow.