Rodon to IL with Shoulder Fatigue

[SpringfieldFan]

Consider too that Kopech is 25 now. These next handful of seasons are his prime and its disappointing to see some of them needing to be spent getting him eased into full utilization.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

19 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

Consider too that Kopech is 25 now. These next handful of seasons are his prime and its disappointing to see some of them needing to be spent getting him eased into full utilization.

and yet, they aren't easing him into full utilization. Beginning of the year it appeared they were.. Then they stopped 

[maloney.adam]

 

[Balta1701]

52 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

and yet, they aren't easing him into full utilization. Beginning of the year it appeared they were.. Then they stopped 

At the same time as other people in the bullpen were struggling and Kopech became a reliable arm. Sure the injury played a role here, but I guarantee you I wrote in the spring that he would become a 1 inning guy because Tony would realize he could use him in that role, and that's where he'd get stuck. This was totally predictable.

[Jose Abreu]

4 hours ago, TheTruth05 said:

really short sighted on Kopech, having him throw an inning every other day and then thinking he can just jump into 100+ innings next year is dumb af.

Right? There's no way they could be this dumb. Do they know something we don't about the 2022 season (lockout, shortened season, etc.)?

The rationale from Katz makes it even worse -- it made sense before Kimbrel and Tepera, but not anymore. The idea that having Kopech unavailable for a few days puts the team at a competitive disadvantage just no longer applies, especially when Kopech only pitches once every 3-4 days in the first place.

[South Side Hit Men]

19 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Right? There's no way they could be this dumb. Do they know something we don't about the 2022 season (lockout, shortened season, etc.)?

The rationale from Katz makes it even worse -- it made sense before Kimbrel and Tepera, but not anymore. The idea that having Kopech unavailable for a few days puts the team at a competitive disadvantage just no longer applies, especially when Kopech only pitches once every 3-4 days in the first place.

Well they warmed Kopech up today, but let him sit to allow Ruiz to pitch another high leverage situation.

Perhaps warming him up but not using him will let him transition from 50-60 innings to 200. Wainwright did it fifteen years ago. Tony’s gut tells him it’s the smart path for Kopech. No need to think when you have a gut.

Edited August 11, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[mqr]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

and yet, they aren't easing him into full utilization. Beginning of the year it appeared they were.. Then they stopped 

I'm sort of of the belief we need to shift the idea of "prime" years later for pitchers. Most all of them are spending their early twenties getting  hurt and a lot of the best guys are in their thirties. 

[ShoeLessRob]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not gonna be Kopech for all of the obvious reasons. 

?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I think people are forgetting that before this season Kopech hadn't thrown a pitch in 2.5 years.  Now you want to change his role in the middle of the season?  I think that's pretty dangerous for a guy with his track record. I think everyone should be happy he's pitching at all and worry about next year next year.  

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think people are forgetting that before this season Kopech hadn't thrown a pitch in 2.5 years.  Now you want to change his role in the middle of the season?  I think that's pretty dangerous for a guy with his track record. I think everyone should be happy he's pitching at all and worry about next year next year.  

Ironically, turning him into an every day/every other day, 1 inning reliever is a change from his role pre-injury and a role he's never faced in his career.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

 

The White Sox are only a couple games behind for getting home field advantage in the playoffs but yeah these games are essentially meaningless. Alrighty then.

[Bob Sacamano]

16 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

The White Sox are only a couple games behind for getting home field advantage in the playoffs but yeah these games are essentially meaningless. Alrighty then.

In the sense that playoffs are pretty much guaranteed at this point. Home field advantage is what’s making it not completely meaningless.

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

At the same time as other people in the bullpen were struggling and Kopech became a reliable arm. Sure the injury played a role here, but I guarantee you I wrote in the spring that he would become a 1 inning guy because Tony would realize he could use him in that role, and that's where he'd get stuck. This was totally predictable.

Given the sizeable lead the club has - I don’t like their approach but I suppose I understand it. 

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

In the sense that playoffs are pretty much guaranteed at this point. Home field advantage is what’s making it not completely meaningless.

The white Sox have the largest home/road splits of any likely playoff team. While nothing is guaranteed, if there’s ever a team you want having home field advantage in the playoffs it’s this one.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

The White Sox are only a couple games behind for getting home field advantage in the playoffs but yeah these games are essentially meaningless. Alrighty then.

It amazes me how people can continue to say we have a big division lead and things are no big deal. Part of winning a World Series is not spending most of your time on the road. You can be better than the competition, but if you play poorly in the road and are playing on the road, they will beat you. If we have to play Houston without HFA is anyone really confident that we will win that series? Especially with our pitchers getting lit up in Houston and DK/Lynn struggling against them this year? 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It amazes me how people can continue to say we have a big division lead and things are no big deal. Part of winning a World Series is not spending most of your time on the road. You can be better than the competition, but if you play poorly in the road and are playing on the road, they will beat you. If we have to play Houston without HFA is anyone really confident that we will win that series? Especially with our pitchers getting lit up in Houston and DK/Lynn struggling against them this year? 

I am more confident of winning on the road than I am of winning because key guys are hurt and/or extremely fatigued but with home field advantage.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am more confident of winning on the road than I am of winning because key guys are hurt and/or extremely fatigued but with home field advantage.

No one is saying guys shouldn't get rest. People are talking about the idea of not caring because we have a 10 game division lead and that these games are meaningless. The games are not meaningless and HFA is very important for a team that struggles on the road. 

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am more confident of winning on the road than I am of winning because key guys are hurt and/or extremely fatigued but with home field advantage.

This - get in and get in healthy with your rotation set. This is part of the challenge in a long season…I am so happy club built this lead up. It is so critical…much more so than home field IMO. End of the day once playoffs start the reality is they need to play well period. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

No one is saying guys shouldn't get rest. People are talking about the idea of not caring because we have a 10 game division lead and that these games are meaningless. The games are not meaningless and HFA is very important for a team that struggles on the road. 

I think that is a gross simplification of the idea that goal #1 should be to have as much of this team healthy and rested as possible by the time the playoffs get here.  HFA would be great, but if you destroy players while doing it, it does you no good.  Carlos Rodon is a great example of that. Guys like Dylan Cease, Crochet and Kopech are in similar situations.   Dallas has his most IP already since 2018.

Then you look at the offense with major injury recoveries for a large chunk of the line up, plus nagging injuries for others.  

When you see people say they "don't care", this is what they are talking about.  If you give up 5 games, but get into the post season with guys more than on fumes, it is worth it to me.

[hi8is]

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think that is a gross simplification of the idea that goal #1 should be to have as much of this team healthy and rested as possible by the time the playoffs get here.  HFA would be great, but if you destroy players while doing it, it does you no good.  Carlos Rodon is a great example of that. Guys like Dylan Cease, Crochet and Kopech are in similar situations.   Dallas has his most IP already since 2018.

Then you look at the offense with major injury recoveries for a large chunk of the line up, plus nagging injuries for others.  

When you see people say they "don't care", this is what they are talking about.  If you give up 5 games, but get into the post season with guys more than on fumes, it is worth it to me.

Wait… you mean the sky isn’t falling?

[Balta1701]

8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think that is a gross simplification of the idea that goal #1 should be to have as much of this team healthy and rested as possible by the time the playoffs get here.  HFA would be great, but if you destroy players while doing it, it does you no good.  Carlos Rodon is a great example of that. Guys like Dylan Cease, Crochet and Kopech are in similar situations.   Dallas has his most IP already since 2018.

Then you look at the offense with major injury recoveries for a large chunk of the line up, plus nagging injuries for others.  

When you see people say they "don't care", this is what they are talking about.  If you give up 5 games, but get into the post season with guys more than on fumes, it is worth it to me.

I think that saying “home field advantage would be great” is a gross simplification of its importance. This team is 1 game over .500 on the road and they were below .500 on the road before the Cubs series. If things were set up this way, the White Sox would go to Houston as a 3 seed, with Likely Greinke and McCullers on the mound - two righties, another of their weaknesses. Last time they went to Houston, it did not go well. 

While yes it is important to get some guys (Rodon) rested, if the end result of that is coming back to Chicago down 2-0 needing Giolito and Keuchel to win elimination games, then good chance you rested up for a playoff run that isn’t much long than the 3 game run of last season. That situation is an obvious possible outcome that we have already seen happen, avioiding it should get a lot more thought than “this wouldn’t be great”.

Heres one example. Yesterday was August 11. Liam Hendriks has pitched 2 innings…in August. He is on 6 days of rest right now. He literally needed work, still does. But it was absolutely necessary to use Ruiz out of the pen in a tie game?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think that saying “home field advantage would be great” is a gross simplification of its importance. This team is 1 game over .500 on the road and they were below .500 on the road before the Cubs series. If things were set up this way, the White Sox would go to Houston as a 3 seed, with Likely Greinke and McCullers on the mound - two righties, another of their weaknesses. Last time they went to Houston, it did not go well. 

While yes it is important to get some guys (Rodon) rested, if the end result of that is coming back to Chicago down 2-0 needing Giolito and Keuchel to win elimination games, then good chance you rested up for a playoff run that isn’t much long than the 3 game run of last season. That situation is an obvious possible outcome that we have already seen happen, avioiding it should get a lot more thought than “this wouldn’t be great”.

Heres one example. Yesterday was August 11. Liam Hendriks has pitched 2 innings…in August. He is on 6 days of rest right now. He literally needed work, still does. But it was absolutely necessary to use Ruiz out of the pen in a tie game?

Again if you give me home field advantage with a dead roster, it does no good. We have already got Rodons arm falling off again, and others potentially joining him. It won't be much of an advantage to have home field if ReyLo and Stiever are starting games 3 and 4.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again if you give me home field advantage with a dead roster, it does no good. We have already got Rodons arm falling off again, and others potentially joining him. It won't be much of an advantage to have home field if ReyLo and Stiever are starting games 3 and 4.

Again, if you give me a roster rested for a deep playoff run that loses games 1 and 2 of the ALDS on the road, all the rest does no good.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Again, if you give me a roster rested for a deep playoff run that loses games 1 and 2 of the ALDS on the road, all the rest does no good.

The odds are WAY better with a healthy roster. Like I can't even believe anyone would think otherwise. 

[CentralChamps21]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again if you give me home field advantage with a dead roster, it does no good. We have already got Rodons arm falling off again, and others potentially joining him. It won't be much of an advantage to have home field if ReyLo and Stiever are starting games 3 and 4.

I think shelving Rodon for a while is a good idea, but the relievers aren't in danger of being overworked so there was really no reason to have Ruiz pitch in a 0-0 game, and no reason to sit all of TA, Moncada and Robert against a pitcher the Sox had trouble with recently. There needs to be a balance between trying to get home field advantage and keeping players healthy and right now the pendulum is way too far in one direction.