8/17 Games

[BamaDoc]

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/stats/affiliates?teamId=145&date=08/17/2021

https://www.milb.com/scores/chicago-white-sox/2021-08-17

McClure pitching for AAA on the same day as Rodon's slot in Sox rotation.  Worth following?  Probably not this year but

Not sure if DSL will play today post storms.  This is not meant to be political/religous but having spent time in the Caribbean, if you say prayers, say a prayer for the Haitian people.  Lots of poverty to begin with and corregated tin huts don't hold up well in earthquakes and storms.  If you have seen the poverty, you realize how good we have it.

Bmags, welcome home!  Hope vacation was great.

[maxjusttyped]

Anyone have an opinion on what level of prospect Veras is?

[bmags]

24 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Anyone have an opinion on what level of prospect Veras is?

He was mentioned in Badler's review when he was signed and I think got the full 300 k we could offer (maybe that was year we could offer more) so that's noteworthy for intl signings. Guys like Jose Rodriguez and Bailey by comparison just showed up on the rosters so it at least lets you know there were some notable traits.

Veras has the additional Tatis bloodlines and was said to have really good present power at a young age so this is all pretty exciting I think.

[bmags]

5 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/stats/affiliates?teamId=145&date=08/17/2021

https://www.milb.com/scores/chicago-white-sox/2021-08-17

McClure pitching for AAA on the same day as Rodon's slot in Sox rotation.  Worth following?  Probably not this year but

Not sure if DSL will play today post storms.  This is not meant to be political/religous but having spent time in the Caribbean, if you say prayers, say a prayer for the Haitian people.  Lots of poverty to begin with and corregated tin huts don't hold up well in earthquakes and storms.  If you have seen the poverty, you realize how good we have it.

Bmags, welcome home!  Hope vacation was great.

Thank you sir, it was the best. Went to glacier np with my young boys, and funny enough ran into frank thomas' wife and kids.

[fathom]

Bad defense, bad control and Kelley doesn’t make it out of the first 

[maxjusttyped]

Another disaster outing for Kelley. The player dev in the lower level of the minors continues to really disappoint.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Kelley is 3 years younger than the avg player in Low A while Dahlquist and Thompson are 2 years younger.  Chill

[maxjusttyped]

18 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Kelley is 3 years younger than the avg player in Low A while Dahlquist and Thompson are 2 years younger.  Chill

I think it's fair to vent frustrations about the player development when they're a consensus bottom 2 farm system and the minor league teams as a whole are like 90 games below .500.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I think it's fair to vent frustrations about the player development when they're a consensus bottom 2 farm system and the minor league teams as a whole are like 90 games below .500.

The former is not player developments fault and the latter is not their concern. 

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The former is not player developments fault and the latter is not their concern. 

I think when you look at organizations like the Yankees or Dodgers turning mid round picks, cheap international signings, throw ins from previous trades, etc (Duran, Josh Smith, Josiah Gray, etc) into highly coveted prospects they can acquire star players for it highlights where their player dev departments really excel. That isn't something the Sox have been able to do, even after overhauling their player dev/minor league coaching staffs.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

5 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I think when you look at organizations like the Yankees or Dodgers turning mid round picks, cheap international signings, throw ins from previous trades, etc (Duran, Josh Smith, Josiah Gray, etc) into highly coveted prospects they can acquire star players for it highlights where their player dev departments really excel. That isn't something the Sox have been able to do, even after overhauling their player dev/minor league coaching staffs.

I would say those are examples of scouting department successes. 

[southsider2k5]

35 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I think it's fair to vent frustrations about the player development when they're a consensus bottom 2 farm system and the minor league teams as a whole are like 90 games below .500.

You are talking a raw high school pitcher who essentially lost a year of development and then got an injury pretty quickly this year.

[maxjusttyped]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are talking a raw high school pitcher who essentially lost a year of development and then got an injury pretty quickly this year.

I was speaking as much about the farm system as a whole. The entire minor leagues lost a year of development last year. None of Kelley, Dalquist, or Thompson (likely) taking a real step forward this year is a disappointment. If you look across the league, there are age equivalent pitchers to them having a lot of success in low-A. It isn't unreasonable to expect one of them to be performing well.

Something is going wrong in your minor leagues when you're a bottom 2 system and don't have any prospects that are likely to appear on any top 100 lists. We can find reasons to explain away why that is, but it's also a fact that the system as a whole has been extremely underwhelming this season.

Edited August 18, 2021 by maxjusttyped

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I was speaking as much about the farm system as a whole. The entire minor leagues lost a year of development last year. None of Kelley, Dalquist, or Thompson (likely) taking a real step forward this year is a disappointment. If you look across the league, there are age equivalent pitchers to them having a lot of success in low-A. It isn't unreasonable to expect one of them to be performing well.

Something is going wrong in your minor leagues when you're a bottom 2 system and don't have any prospects that are likely to appear on any top 100 lists. We can find reasons to explain away why that is, but it's also a fact that the system as a whole has been extremely underwhelming this season.

The Sox spent the last 5 years aligning their minor leagues to getting star players to the majors by last year.  That's what's wrong with the system.  In the last year they have shifted back to younger players to build back for down the road.  This has been by design. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox spent the last 5 years aligning their minor leagues to getting star players to the majors by last year.  That's what's wrong with the system.  In the last year they have shifted back to younger players to build back for down the road.  This has been by design. 

Yeah I have a hard time being upset about their farm system depth when they’ve called up the caliber of talent they have the last three years.

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox spent the last 5 years aligning their minor leagues to getting star players to the majors by last year.  That's what's wrong with the system.  In the last year they have shifted back to younger players to build back for down the road.  This has been by design. 

I completely agree, but they aren't the only team in baseball that's followed a similar approach but they are one of 2 systems in the conversation for the worst system in the game. I don't think that happens without something going wrong, personally. We see competitive teams graduate guys to the majors, make a ton of trades, never bottom out etc and never have their system at a point where it is for the Sox right now. If there wasn't some type of issue, it'd be possible to squint and see anyone besides Jose Rodriguez getting any top 100 consideration this winter.

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, fathom said:

Yeah I have a hard time being upset about their farm system depth when they’ve called up the caliber of talent they have the last three years.

That's fair. I understand it can be pretty intense nitpicking. But you see teams like the Dodgers, Rays, Yankees, Padres etc build very good good teams and keep their farm system strong, the Sox seem like so much will need to go right for them to get the system strong again. I know this was a transition year for the system, but I don't think anyone can say it's been a positive year for them at the minor league level, either.

[bmags]

If anything I’d wish the Sox to align their intl and draft strategies better. They were both kinda doing the same thing going after more advanced players for a while, rather than taking moonshots with lots of 16 year olds in latam but going with advanced college players.

Going cespedes/colas while going more high school recently makes some sense.

But let’s be honest when comparing the Sox. For farm systems, they are at a disadvantage to the smaller market teams getting less draft and intl budget, and worse compmpicks.

And then comparing them to yanks/Dodgers, who print money and have like 4 front offices worth of personnel.

The Sox can and should do better, but going in waves is going to be likely.

[BamaDoc]

I wonder if going younger in the draft and more advanced internationally makes sense.  You see some of the 17 yo international guys aren't MLB ready by the time their 40 man decisions come and you lose them to the bad rebuilding teams.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

That Polonco dude has 20 errors? 20??   Were they all at 2B or was he so bad at SS they moved him to 2B? I don't think errors are a good indicator of defensive ability but come on man 20 errors is ridiculous.  Get Goose up there for crying out loud.

[FriendlyNorthsider]

8 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Kelley is 3 years younger than the avg player in Low A while Dahlquist and Thompson are 2 years younger.  Chill

He's in a similar spot at Ed Howard of the Cubs. They got put in low A which is a tough assignment for a player out of high school, let alone after a year without competitive baseball, and were over matched. Had they been put in the ACL, they probably would have solid numbers. 

It's also worth considering that Kannapolis has been an absolute shit show this year. Maybe he'll get a chance to work with Katz in the offseason to figure out what is going on with his command.

[FriendlyNorthsider]

Some thoughts on the ACL and DSL games:

The ACL pitching was absolutely dominant today: 9ip 3h 0 walks! 13ks!!

Gosswein (2021 4th rounder) is a college guy and is turning 23 next month but you cant ask for much more than the 5IP 3 hits 0 bbs 5 ks hes put up in two starts. Maybe he'll se Kanny soon?

Noah Owen (2021 14th rounder) is a JUCO guy turning 21 in October, but again, great results: 3 games 5IP 2 h 1bb 9 ks. 

The hitting was not particularly sharp today. No Montgomery in the lineup. Veras was 0/4 with 3ks. Kath was 1/4 1RBI 2ks, Benyamin Bailey drew 3 walks which was nice. Elijah Tatis is being given every chance to produce but his 0/4 2k performance sent his OPS down to .324.

The DSL Sox won 6-5. They have a 17 year old catcher Manuel Guariman who is batting .425 in 40 ABS with 7ks to 5 walks. Its really hard to read much of anything into DSL, but he and Tapia (homered and stole a base today) are definite bright spots.

 

[raBBit]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are talking a raw high school pitcher who essentially lost a year of development and then got an injury pretty quickly this year.

That's disingenuous. How much would a high school pitching prospect throw in their first short season in pro ball? Thompson and Dalquist combined for 5 innings in 2019. I wouldn't call that a year of development. 

[GreenSox]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:33 PM, fathom said:

Yeah I have a hard time being upset about their farm system depth when they’ve called up the caliber of talent they have the last three years.

That's true, but a lot of those players were from Sale/Q/Eaton dispersal moves.  Those are over.

I've followed the Sox for a long time and they've always struggled with the farm, except for the period from around the late 1980s to early 2000s.  And not surprisingly, they were consistently good from 1990-2008 ( a few off years, but not many); and that's the only period of sustained "goodness" since the mid 60s.   Maybe this is another such period  -it's fair to say that the farm has produced more productive players than the rankings suggest it should.  And despite all the guffaws I got in  another thread, yes their 2nd round picks have sucked:  leaving last few years TBD, it's Bob Wickman and Terry Forster, 2 relievers, since 1965.

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, GreenSox said:

That's true, but a lot of those players were from Sale/Q/Eaton dispersal moves.  Those are over.

I've followed the Sox for a long time and they've always struggled with the farm, except for the period from around the late 1980s to early 2000s.  And not surprisingly, they were consistently good from 1990-2008 ( a few off years, but not many); and that's the only period of sustained "goodness" since the mid 60s.   Maybe this is another such period  -it's fair to say that the farm has produced more productive players than the rankings suggest it should.  And despite all the guffaws I got in  another thread, yes their 2nd round picks have sucked:  leaving last few years TBD, it's Bob Wickman and Terry Forster, 2 relievers, since 1965.

It's always entertaining when people feel the need to go back to 1965 to find something to complain about.