Do the White Sox need an offensive adjustment?

[poppysox]

I want my high OBP guys in the first two slots with my best hitter batting 3rd.  Ideally, the lead-off man has speed and the 2nd in the lineup takes lots of pitches.  Using those criteria my first four in the lineup would be Robert...Grandal...Jimenez...Abreu

I like Anderson a lot but a leadoff hitter needs to take some pitches and get some walks IMO.   Abreu is a great RBI man but hits into a ton of DP's taking the bat out of Eloy's hands frequently.  Anderson, Moncada, Vaughn, Hernandez, and Engel complete my everyday lineup in no particular order.

[The Mighty Mite]

5 hours ago, KennyPowers said:

I disagree. Lets try to get Moncada going. Move him up in the lineup. He hits best (with protection) when he's in the 2 or 3 hole..

 

Yep, since he doesn't seem like he's much of a long ball guy anymore and since he switch hits I'd like to see him bat second. That plus Hernandez isn't reminding me of Nellie Fox or even Ray Dutham.

Edited August 20, 2021 by The Mighty Mite

[ShoeLessRob]

They need a 2nd base upgrade ?

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

They need a 2nd base upgrade ?

They need to not walk people.

[Lillian]

Here is another glaring and troubling stat, regarding Moncada. He is tied for 10TH in the AL, in strike outs, with 125. That is more than 10 times his home run total of 11.  He is striking out like a slugger, which unfortunately, he isn't. That flaw in his offensive game has got to be addressed. Either he has to hit more homers, or stop striking out. A team can live with a 3 true outcome hitter, like Gallo, but not with a "2 outcome" hitter. A guy can't just walk, or strike out. Power has to be part of that equation.

If this trend continues, he is not a $24 million a year player, even though the Sox will ultimately be paying him that. Regarding salary; the worst part of that contract is the $5 million buy out, which the Sox would have to pay, in order to avoid his $25 million option, for 2025. His contract still has 2 years of reasonable salary, before jumping to $24 million, in 2024. He's 26, in his prime, with almost 2,000 MLB at bats. It's time for Yoan to figure it out. Let's hope so.

[Dominikk85]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:31 PM, VAfan said:

Here's an interesting tidbit from the latest ESPN power ranking, which puts the Sox 6th. 

I noticed in the Yankee series that a lot of the players were chasing junk out of the zone.  Is there something to this?

Discuss. 

I don't agree. Imo the sox offense got super lucky and massively overperformed in the first half without the homers. Even if offense is now slightly worse the true talent of the line-up now is much better and should be fine. There will be some weeks were they will go cold but overall that line up with Robert, eloy, and improved Vaughn, tim, Jose and so on should be a very good line up and homers will be a big part of that

[harkness99]

we have gotten better at hitting home runs but we are not being selective and walking as much as we were earlier.

 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

we have gotten better at hitting home runs but we are not being selective and walking as much as we were earlier.

 

When Grandal leaves the line up, the walk totals are going to drop. Moncada still walks a lot, and Abreu seems more willing to take a walk since Eloy returned.

[harkness99]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

When Grandal leaves the line up, the walk totals are going to drop. Moncada still walks a lot, and Abreu seems more willing to take a walk since Eloy returned.

yeah true a lot of the walking before was grandal... 

[Bob Sacamano]

19 hours ago, poppysox said:

I want my high OBP guys in the first two slots with my best hitter batting 3rd.  Ideally, the lead-off man has speed and the 2nd in the lineup takes lots of pitches.  Using those criteria my first four in the lineup would be Robert...Grandal...Jimenez...Abreu

I like Anderson a lot but a leadoff hitter needs to take some pitches and get some walks IMO.   Abreu is a great RBI man but hits into a ton of DP's taking the bat out of Eloy's hands frequently.  Anderson, Moncada, Vaughn, Hernandez, and Engel complete my everyday lineup in no particular order.

Yeah I feel like you want at least a .350 OBP from the lead off spot. Anderson is fine though.

Edited August 21, 2021 by manbearpuig

[SonofaRoache]

Our offense will be fine. Our main issue is putting guys in the right spot to succeed. We have been getting runners on and not scoring, but runners have been on. 

[poppysox]

9 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Yeah I feel like you want at least a .350 OBP from the lead off spot. Anderson is fine though.

If he would take some pitches and get some walks he'd be great.  Part of the job for the first two guys in the lineup is to see what the pitcher has today and start working immediately on getting him 100 pitches and out of the game by the fifth or sixth inning.

[chw42]

The issue recently has been not getting guys in from third with less than 2 outs. I don't even remember the last time we hit a sac fly. Yoan and Vaughn always end up in those situations and end up not coming through. It's been a recurring theme for the past few series. 

[tray]

4 hours ago, Lillian said:

Here is another glaring and troubling stat, regarding Moncada. He is tied for 10TH in the AL, in strike outs, with 125.

Glaring and troubling ? Whatever fans think about their favorite players or least favorite player right now doesn't matter. These are the guys that the Sox are going to battle with in the play-offs. It's too late for second guessing or worrying about position players. Now the bullpen...well "glaring and troubling" could apply to some recent performances but again, the roster is pretty well set at this point so it is time to get ready for the play-offs with these guys.

[Lillian]

4 hours ago, tray said:

Glaring and troubling ? Whatever fans think about their favorite players or least favorite player right now doesn't matter. These are the guys that the Sox are going to battle with in the play-offs. It's too late for second guessing or worrying about position players. Now the bullpen...well "glaring and troubling" could apply to some recent performances but again, the roster is pretty well set at this point so it is time to get ready for the play-offs with these guys.

I agree with your assessment of priorities. I hope that you didn't think that I was suggesting that the Sox not play Moncada. He's going to be our third baseman for at least the rest of this season, and probably for the next few years. However, I hope that you can appreciate the suggestion that he has some issues, which he needs to address.

[kitekrazy]

I'm surprised Xeby is hitting over .200. 

[NWINFan]

9 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I agree with your assessment of priorities. I hope that you didn't think that I was suggesting that the Sox not play Moncada. He's going to be our third baseman for at least the rest of this season, and probably for the next few years. However, I hope that you can appreciate the suggestion that he has some issues, which he needs to address.

You are right about Moncada. Striking out has always been a problem for him. He will never really be a big power hitter, and so he needs to put the ball in play more. 125 strike outs at this time of the season is alarming. When he struck out so much in 2018, fans said he was still developing. He's been around for a little while now.

[tray]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

 I hope that you can appreciate the suggestion that he has some issues, which he needs to address.

No worries. He is who we thought he was.

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	PA	AB	R	H	HR	RBI	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
2017	22	CHW	AL	54	231	199	31	46	8	22	29	74	.231	.338	.412	.750
2018	23	CHW	AL	149	650	578	73	136	17	61	67	217	.235	.315	.400	.714
2019	24	CHW	AL	132	559	511	83	161	25	79	40	154	.315	.367	.548	.915
2020	25	CHW	AL	52	231	200	28	45	6	24	28	72	.225	.320	.385	.705
2021	26	CHW	AL	111	472	396	56	101	11	51	67	125	.255	.371	.394	.765
6 Yr	6 Yr	6 Yr	6 Yr	506	2163	1903	274	493	67	238	232	654	.259	.343	.437	.780
162	162	162	162	162	693	609	88	158	21	76	74	209	.259	.343	.437	.780

 

[BeaverEater48]

Really worried about how we leave so many players on base.Seems like earlier in the season we were alot better at bring in the guys on 3rd base.The Yankees need to slow the hell down on how there kicking ass now.I sure in the hell dont wanna see ours boys have to face them first round of the playoffs.

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, BeaverEater48 said:

Really worried about how we leave so many players on base.Seems like earlier in the season we were alot better at bring in the guys on 3rd base.The Yankees need to slow the hell down on how there kicking ass now.I sure in the hell dont wanna see ours boys have to face them first round of the playoffs.

It looks to me like the Sox are 6th in MLB with RISP.

[tray]

A lot

3 hours ago, BeaverEater48 said:

Really worried about how we leave so many players on base

Stats only get you so far in  evaluating a team or a player. You have to watch the games...and having watched almost every WS game I agree with you ....way too many LOB , especially when the Sox were behind and needed a run or two to get back into a game.

Rally killing double plays are part of that. We have a couple of guys that seem to GIDP when we just needed them to get on base somehow.

[VAfan]

On 8/20/2021 at 1:07 PM, Tnetennba said:

Maybe its just my personal bias, but he seems to thrive hitting 2nd and struggle hitting lower - but I don't have any evidence to back that up.  His OBP still plays well ahead of the heart of the order even if he's not hitting for much power. 

Split	G	GS	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	ROE	BAbip	tOPS+	sOPS+
Batting 2nd	14	14	60	50	8	11	2	1	1	7	0	0	10	12	.220	.350	.360	.710	18	2	0	0	0	0	1	.270	86	88
Batting 3rd	58	58	244	197	27	58	13	0	4	30	2	1	42	63	.294	.422	.421	.843	83	0	3	0	2	0	0	.409	121	117
Batting 4th	16	16	70	63	6	12	2	0	1	5	0	0	5	23	.190	.271	.270	.541	17	2	2	0	0	0	0	.282	42	42
Batting 5th	17	17	74	66	12	16	3	0	5	9	0	1	7	19	.242	.324	.515	.839	34	0	1	0	0	1	0	.262	118	126
Batting 6th	6	6	24	20	3	4	0	0	0	0	1	0	3	8	.200	.333	.200	.533	4	0	1	0	0	0	0	.333	41

Here's the data, courtesy of Baseball Reference splits for this year.  He's hit for more power 5th,  but his best spot is ahead of Abreu, where he put up an .843 OPS.  This is where his patience as a hitter drawing walks adds the most benefit.  That shows him 3rd, but that was back when there was no Jimenez in the lineup and Abreu could hit cleanup.  

[VAfan]

Where's the 2019 Yoan Moncada?  That guy has to be in there somewhere. 

If he doesn't improve, I believe more and more that he should be moved back to 2nd base and Jake Burger should be given a shot at 3B.  He's going to be a very good hitter.  We all like Vaughn.  Burger could also be very good, and will give us the power bat that has seemingly left Moncada.

[VAfan]

One last point here.  As much as it would benefit the Sox to finish with the #1 seed -- because I think the Yankees are going to catch the Rays, and if the Sox are #1, the Yanks and Astros might have to face off in the first round -- I think LaRussa needs to give some of these guys more rest to get them fresh.

Moncada and Abreu would be two guys I would give time off to, especially in September when we could bring back Burger and Sheets.  

[tray]

 Moncada seems to get screwed all too often on pitches that are out of the strike zone yet called as strikes...and I believe he has a good eye.   Yoan  has not been able to come up with a defensive swing after two strikes ...and that has to be twice as hard to do for a switch hitter.  Perhaps Mendicino or whatever his name is can help him with this.