Complain about Kimbrel here:

[Two-Gun Pete]

11 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Oakland has advanced past the division series all of once since 1993, so maybe that theory of not buying high on relievers works great for the regular season but doesn't help you win playoff games.

And yet, despite the SOX being in an inferior division, 2021 will be the first year with back-to-back postseason in franchise history. 

OTOH, despite Oakland being in a tougher division, they've made the postseason more regularly. 

Buying high is stoopud. Buying high on RPs (whose performances are notoriously volatile) is extremely stoopud.

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

And yet, despite the SOX being in an inferior division, 2021 will be the first year with back-to-back postseason in franchise history. 

OTOH, despite Oakland being in a tougher division, they've made the postseason more regularly. 

Buying high is stoopud. Buying high on RPs (whose performances are notoriously volatile) is extremely stoopud.

Buying high may be stupid, but it has nothing to do with what that abject failure of a human in Oakland has said or done.

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Buying high may be stupid, but it has nothing to do with what that abject failure of a human in Oakland has said or done.

Ok, I'm at a loss here. Who is the abject failure of a human? 

More importantly, how does that impact buying an aging closer, instead of a setup man with closing experience?

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, I'm at a loss here. Who is the abject failure of a human? 

More importantly, how does that impact buying an aging closer, instead of a setup man with closing experience?

You mentioned that Moneyball proved that buying high on releivers was bad. The architect of Moneyball is a failure. If buying high on relievers is bad, it's because it's bad and not because that loser said so.

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

You mentioned that Moneyball proved that buying high on releivers was bad. The architect of Moneyball is a failure. If buying high on relievers is bad, it's because it's bad and not because that loser said so.

Wait, so the author Michael Lewis is "an abject failure of a human being?"

 

Look, going into the TDL, this team needed a RH setup man. Instead, the geniuses that brought you James Shields brought in the most expensive closer available instead.

Buying high on RPs is bad.

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

Wait, so the author Michael Lewis is "an abject failure of a human being?"

 

Look, going into the TDL, this team needed a RH setup man. Instead, the geniuses that brought you James Shields brought in the most expensive closer available instead.

Buying high on RPs is bad.

Michael Lewis wasn't the architect of Moneyball. He was the mouthpiece.

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Michael Lewis wasn't the architect of Moneyball. He was the mouthpiece.

But I never mentioned "the architect." I mentioned the book, which was written by Michael Lewis.

And again, what does any of this have to do with buying high on an aging closer?

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Buying high may be stupid, but it has nothing to do with what that abject failure of a human in Oakland has said or done.

Is this a Billy Beane slam, if so exactly what are you trying to say?

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Is this a Billy Beane slam, if so exactly what are you trying to say?

I'm trying to say that we shouldn't accept any sort of axiom just because of what he's said or done. Most overrated baseball executive of this century.

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

But I never mentioned "the architect." I mentioned the book, which was written by Michael Lewis.

And again, what does any of this have to do with buying high on an aging closer?

You mentioned Moneyball and buying high in the same sentence. I responded. The book was written by a guy who was advancing Beane's theories. Michael Lewis didn't develop any of his own.

[Timmy U]

Wrong thread

Edited August 29, 2021 by Timmy U

[South Side Hit Men]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'm trying to say that we shouldn't accept any sort of axiom just because of what he's said or done. Most overrated baseball executive of this century.

Have the Whites Sox hired a better executive during their history?

Also, can you list any reasons folks should view Billy Beane as "an abject failure of a human being"? 

Edited August 29, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'm trying to say that we shouldn't accept any sort of axiom just because of what he's said or done. Most overrated baseball executive of this century.

No, "failure of a human" is not the same thing as an overrated baseball executive. 

[CentralChamps21]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Have the Whites Sox hired a better executive during their history?

1 World Series > 0 World Series

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

No, "failure of a human" is not the same thing as an overrated baseball executive. 

I didn't say that was his only problem.

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Have the Whites Sox hired a better executive during their history?

Also, can you list any reasons folks should view Billy Beane as "an abject failure of a human being"? 

Exactly. Oakland absolutely pantsed KW on the Billy Koch trade eons ago. And it doesn't look like this FO has learned anything, if the Kimbrel acquisition doesn't get better soon.

They needed a setup man, but got an expensive closer. I hope it works out, but early returns suck so far.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I didn't say that was his only problem.

And?

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

And?

I'm really not going to get into it. If your opinion is different, it's different. I'm not interested in arguing it.

[reiks12]

2 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Madrigal is a nice little player, but he’s not exactly going to be a WAR machine. The only thing about him that is spectacular is BA. I’m not sold he’s ever going to have enough power.

Madrigal's OPS was .977 during his last 15 games after making adjustments. He is going to be an absolute stud of a hitter. No im not expecting him to have a 1000 OPS but i think its likely he hovers around .800 for his career. The home runs clearly prove that Cesar Hernandez is great player, ignore his .708 OPS though. 

[Greg Hibbard]

7 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Madrigal's OPS was .977 during his last 15 games after making adjustments. He is going to be an absolute stud of a hitter. No im not expecting him to have a 1000 OPS but i think its likely he hovers around .800 for his career. The home runs clearly prove that Cesar Hernandez is great player, ignore his .708 OPS though. 

Where did I talk about Cesar Hernandez? We acquired him because we needed better than Leury. Which he is. Not sure what you’re after with that remark. 

I think Madrigal’s walk rate is actually what will most hold him back most from a great OPS consistently.  .320 is great BA but if it’s only .360 OBP…I don’t see him getting over .450 SLG. 15 games is way too small of a sample size and you know it. 

[South Side Hit Men]

31 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

1 World Series > 0 World Series

So one set of 3 playoff coin flips with multiples of a payroll equates to a better executive.

Is Dayton Moore with one division championship in a decade and a half is better than Billy Beane?

Is 1114-1343 .453 >> 2062-1852 .527 record with 7 Division Championships?

Were Mike Rizzo and Dayton Moore better GMs than Andrew Freidman in September 2020?

Is Ned Yost one of greatest managers in the history of ML Baseball? Would Ron Washington be if he won one more game in 2011? Ahead of Bobby Cox if he lost in 1995?

Also, "opinion" of what?

[ShoeLessRob]

10 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Where did I talk about Cesar Hernandez? We acquired him because we needed better than Leury. Which he is. Not sure what you’re after with that remark. 

I think Madrigal’s walk rate is actually what will most hold him back most from a great OPS consistently.  .320 is great BA but if it’s only .360 OBP…I don’t see him getting over .450 SLG. 15 games is way too small of a sample size and you know it. 

Is he? Second isnt a super difficult position to field. Is he good? Yes. But his bat has been nonexistent, he’s just as a much of black hole as Seby, Leury, and Goodwin in the lineup. Sucks that he was deemed a big enough upgrade to the lineup.

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'm really not going to get into it. If your opinion is different, it's different. I'm not interested in arguing it.

You haven't explained what you are even talking about. 

[Greg Hibbard]

15 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Is he? Second isnt a super difficult position to field. Is he good? Yes. But his bat has been nonexistent, he’s just as a much of black hole as Seby, Leury, and Goodwin in the lineup. Sucks that he was deemed a big enough upgrade to the lineup.

His BABIP is 70 points below his career avg this year despite hard contact and LD/GB/FB percentages being basically the same. I tend to think he is having a bad run of it right now.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Greg Hibbard

[StrangeSox]

I think kimbrel has been pretty bad on the Sox and hope he instead starts being good.

Edited August 29, 2021 by StrangeSox