Complain about Kimbrel here:

[RG23SoxFan]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I've never understood the "just don't give him anything close" approach. You are risking a PB, WP or as we saw when they used to have to throw 4 pitches for an intentional walk, a couple get pretty close to the zone. Tony should be mad only at himself. He only had to raise 4 fingers. 

Podsednik commented on the postgame about this and mentioned that Guerrero hasn't been hitting all that well recently, something like .225 in August?  He mentioned that all players, but especially young players get over anxious when they are slumping a little bit.  The 3-0 pitch was not a good pitch and Lance Lynn said as much in the postgame.  He said he told Tony as soon as he got to the dugout that it was on him.  He meant to throw it high and away and missed badly.  Yes, Tony can raise 4 fingers and the some of the people who complain that he didn't do that last night are the same ones who complained that he did do that in Tampa.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Been struggling at work lately; making a lot of mistakes costing the bosses a lot of money and time.

Walked into my bosses office today and told him it was his fault; he needed to put me on more expensive projects with more risk and a higher reward.

Guy high fived me and said you're absolutely right, we're going to demote Tom who has been better than me over the past three years total because 5 years ago I was at the top of the totem pole. Really looking forward to my promotion driven by my failures. Wish me luck!

[raBBit]

Kimbrel let up an infield single and an intentional walk yesterday. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Kimbrel let up an infield single and an intentional walk yesterday. 

He has a 4.24 FIP, 1.29 WHIP, 5.79 ERA and has given up 2 homers in 9 innings.

He also has 4 Wild pitches in those 9 innings.

He's also got the 3rd highest contract on the team. Again, the excuses for Kimbrel are laughable. He needs to be dominant, not just another guy.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[raBBit]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He has a 4.24 FIP, 1.29 WHIP, 5.79 ERA and has given up 2 homers in 9 innings.

He also has 4 Wild pitches in those 9 innings.

He's also got the 3rd highest contract on the team. Again, the excuses for Kimbrel are laughable. He needs to be dominant, not just another guy.

I don't freak out over 9 innings. His WHIP drops to 1.2 without the intentional walk. Romine's home run leaves the yard in a third of the ballparks in baseball and it still needed the wind blowing out 10 MPH in 83 degree weather at Wrigley for it to leave the yard. His ERA is less than 3 without that fluke.

Kimbrel has 4 wild pitches in his last 4.2IP and they're all pitching to Zavala. He had 3 the whole year pitching with the Cubs. The Sox are 3rd in baseball in wild pitches and third in passed balls.  You would think they have a really wild pitching staff but they also have the lowest number of HBP of any team in baseball. Zavala has 16 wild pitches and 7 passed balls in 214.2 innings. For catchers with at least 200 innings caught, Zavala leads the league in passed ball/inning and is 4th in the league in wild pitches/inning. But yeah, go off on the 9 innings. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I don't freak out over 9 innings. His WHIP drops to 1.2 without the intentional walk. Romine's home run leaves the yard in a third of the ballparks in baseball and it still needed the wind blowing out 10 MPH in 83 degree weather at Wrigley for it to leave the yard. His ERA is less than 3 without that fluke.

Kimbrel has 4 wild pitches in his last 4.2IP and they're all pitching to Zavala. He had 3 the whole year pitching with the Cubs. The Sox are 3rd in baseball in wild pitches and third in passed balls.  You would think they have a really wild pitching staff but they also have the lowest number of HBP of any team in baseball. Zavala has 16 wild pitches and 7 passed balls in 214.2 innings. For catchers with at least 200 innings caught, Zavala leads the league in passed ball/inning and is 4th in the league in wild pitches/inning. But yeah, go off on the 9 innings. 

That's like 33-35% of the innings you can expect him to throw the ROS since the acquisition. That's kind of important.

I don't disagree that Seby is bad back there, but the wild pitches - for example last night - weren't going to be caught by anyone.

You acting like 9 innings are meaningless when the Sox acquired a reliever with the intent of him being dominant for the end of season push is hilarious.

Why do people feel the need to make excuses for Kimbrel? If you have to search for excuses as to why someone isn't doing their job, it's better just to accept they're not doing their job. We didn't trade for Kimbrel for his expected performance, we traded for his actual performance. "Wind blown" home runs and all. They all count the same.

[raBBit]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's like 33-35% of the innings you can expect him to throw the ROS since the acquisition. That's kind of important.

 I don't disagree that Seby is bad back there, but the wild pitches - for example last night - weren't going to be caught by anyone.

 You acting like 9 innings are meaningless when the Sox acquired a reliever with the intent of him being dominant for the end of season push is hilarious.

 Why do people feel the need to make excuses for Kimbrel? If you have to search for excuses as to why someone isn't doing their job, it's better just to accept they're not doing their job. We didn't trade for Kimbrel for his expected performance, we traded for his actual performance. "Wind blown" home runs and all. They all count the same.

9 innings is insignificant from a statistical standpoint. Just because the Sox acquired a high profile reliever doesn't mean we need to throw out what we know about statistics and sample sizes.

The Sox acquired Kimbrel for October. The Kimbrel trade and whether it was worth it will be determined by the team's and his performance in October. I am not making excuses for him but I watch the games and have seen how easily things could've gone differently. Given just about everything went his way with the Cubs this year, he was due for some regression

2021 BABIP w/ Cubs - .203 
2021 BABIP w/ Sox - .350
Career BABIP - .261

In his 9 innings with the Sox, he has the highest BABIP he's ever had. He has the lowest strand rate he's ever had. His HR/FB% is 2x his career norm. All that tells me is if Grandal comes back and gives Kimbrel an MLB quality catcher and he continues to strike out 4.7 guys for every BB (as he has in his 9 innings here, including the intentional walk) he'll be fine. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by raBBit

[Tony]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

9 innings is insignificant from a statistical standpoint. Just because the Sox acquired a high profile reliever doesn't mean we need to throw out what we know about statistics and sample sizes.

The Sox acquired Kimbrel for October. The Kimbrel trade and whether it was worth it will be determined by the team's and his performance in October. I am not making excuses for him but I watch the games and have seen how easily things could've gone differently. Given just about everything went his way with the Cubs this year, he was due for some regression

2021 BABIP w/ Cubs - .203 
2021 BABIP w/ Sox - .350
Career BABIP - .261

In his 9 innings with the Sox, he has the highest BABIP he's ever had. He has the lowest strand rate he's ever had. His HR/FB% is 2x his career norm. All that tells me is if Grandal comes back and gives Kimbrel an MLB quality catcher and he continues to strike out 4.7 guys for every BB (as he has in his 9 innings here, including the intentional walk) he'll be fine. 

This is a very good post

[Soxsi75]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Then you're down a starter for 2022, unless you rely on Lopez (shudders).

And you're also basically admitting Kimbrel was a failure, because there's just no way you have Kopech, Kimbrel and Hendriks all at the back of the pen for 2022 again (and pay two closers $30+ million to NOT CLOSE).  Not all three of them together in the pen.  That's just a poor allocation of resources.

It makes sense then (if you were keeping Kopech in the pen) to replace Kimbrel's $16 million with another starting pitcher, but then that all depends on how good you believe Kopech will be as a starting pitcher, right?

In general, starting pitchers have a LOT more value to baseball teams than closers, much higher fWAR, etc., but the White Sox are trying to test out that theory...or maybe upend it...as we speak.

Good point. But you saying this reminds me of something else, not related to this Kimbrel topic. They have underutilized/babied Kopech this year.  The talk all year was they were going to stretch out Kopech over the course of this season so he can possibly be a starter by the end of the year. They haven't.  He's only thrown 49 innings this year. So now that could mean, he may not even be stretched out to start NEXT year either! His role this year has been nothing but a one inning reliever to usually pitch the 6th inning. Maybe the 7th. I understand they're concerned about his long term health. And if anyone responds to this post, they'll probably bring that up as why they've done this. But I do believe they've taken it too far. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 minutes ago, raBBit said:

9 innings is insignificant from a statistical standpoint. Just because the Sox acquired a high profile reliever doesn't mean we need to throw out what we know about statistics and sample sizes.

The Sox acquired Kimbrel for October. The Kimbrel trade and whether it was worth it will be determined by the team's and his performance in October. I am not making excuses for him but I watch the games and have seen how easily things could've gone differently. Given just about everything went his way with the Cubs this year, he was due for some regression

2021 BABIP w/ Cubs - .203 
2021 BABIP w/ Sox - .350
Career BABIP - .261

In his 9 innings with the Sox, he has the highest BABIP he's ever had. He has the lowest strand rate he's ever had. His HR/FB% is 2x his career norm. All that tells me is if Grandal comes back and gives Kimbrel an MLB quality catcher and he continues to strike out 4.7 guys for every BB (as he has in his 9 innings here, including the intentional walk) he'll be fine. 

I just want this on record, as Tony claimed this last night.

So if the Sox get bounced in the first round of the playoffs and Kimbrel pitches one inning, the trade was a loss no matter what?

If the Sox win the World Series but Kimbrel has like a 4.5-5 postseason ERA, the trade was a win?

Neither of those make any sense, but that appears to be the argument. That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution.

Small samples were always going to dictate the viability of the trade, so chalking up his failures to small sample noise is exactly why the trade was a shit one to begin with, no? You now want the small sample of 9 innings to be considered meaningless, while the small sample of the playoffs is meaningful. You just can't have it both ways.

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just want this on record, as Tony claimed this last night.

So if the Sox get bounced in the first round of the playoffs and Kimbrel pitches one inning, the trade was a loss no matter what?

If the Sox win the World Series but Kimbrel has like a 4.5-5 postseason ERA, the trade was a win?

Neither of those make any sense, but that appears to be the argument. That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution.

Small samples were always going to dictate the viability of the trade, so chalking up his failures to small sample noise is exactly why the trade was a shit one to begin with, no? You now want the small sample of 9 innings to be considered meaningless, while the small sample of the playoffs is meaningful. You just can't have it both ways.

There are a lot of stupid points to unpack here. 

Craig Kimbrel was acquired to bolster the Sox bullpen, giving them one of the best pens in the game, shutting games down with Kopech-Kimbrel-Hendricks. Given where the Sox are in the standings and the unique lead they have in late August.......ultimately Kimbrel will hold the most value in October.

You seem to be equating late August innings with the same level of importance as an 8th inning in the ALCS with the bases loaded. They aren't even close. 

Additionally, you have almost an indefensible statement of: "That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution." There are like 8 things wrong here. 

- That "10 years of control" are referring to an oft-injured slapdick hitter who won't be back until 2022, and Codi Heuer, a middle reliever who had a 5.12 ERA with the Sox in 2021 (I know you love to reference ERA for relievers, so I thought I would make it simple for you.) IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH, you reference Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October...........Then the same absolutely applies for Heuer and Madrigal, even moreso since one of them isn't even playing. You can't have it both ways, that Kimbrel doesn't matter because he's a reliever, but they gave up 10 years of control!!! for him when you're referencing Codi Heuer as part of that equation. 

This is a very simple topic. Craig Kimbrel has not been good with the Sox up this point. If this type of performance happens in the playoffs, he will have been a massive disappointment. If he contributes positive, dominant innings for the Sox, especially in the playoffs...it was a worthwhile gamble as the Sox gave up items that shouldn't hurt them moving forward. You didn't like the trade when it happened, and you're letting everyone know about it with Kimbrel struggling about how smart you are. 

[hi8is]

Potatoes.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, Tony said:

There are a lot of stupid points to unpack here. 

Craig Kimbrel was acquired to bolster the Sox bullpen, giving them one of the best pens in the game, shutting games down with Kopech-Kimbrel-Hendricks. Given where the Sox are in the standings and the unique lead they have in late August.......ultimately Kimbrel will hold the most value in October.

You seem to be equating late August innings with the same level of importance as an 8th inning in the ALCS with the bases loaded. They aren't even close. 

Additionally, you have almost an indefensible statement of: "That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution." There are like 8 things wrong here. 

- That "10 years of control" are referring to an oft-injured slapdick hitter who won't be back until 2022, and Codi Heuer, a middle reliever who had a 5.12 ERA with the Sox in 2021 (I know you love to reference ERA for relievers, so I thought I would make it simple for you.) IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH, you reference Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October...........Then the same absolutely applies for Heuer and Madrigal, even moreso since one of them isn't even playing. You can't have it both ways, that Kimbrel doesn't matter because he's a reliever, but they gave up 10 years of control!!! for him when you're referencing Codi Heuer as part of that equation. 

This is a very simple topic. Craig Kimbrel has not been good with the Sox up this point. If this type of performance happens in the playoffs, he will have been a massive disappointment. If he contributes positive, dominant innings for the Sox, especially in the playoffs...it was a worthwhile gamble as the Sox gave up items that shouldn't hurt them moving forward. You didn't like the trade when it happened, and you're letting everyone know about it with Kimbrel struggling about how smart you are. 

Codi Heuer outperformed Craig Kimbrel last year and has outperformed him since the trade. Is he better? No. Can he better over the sample the Sox acquired Kimbrel for, 100%.

As per your bolded part, one set of innings was guaranteed to occur when the Sox made the trade, the other set of innings was not guaranteed. The Sox didn't trade for Kimbrel so he could struggle in the regular season and not help their chances in obtaining home field throughout. They acquired him to bolster the bullpen the day they got him, not 2 months later.

As for your bolded/italicized part, there's nothing more exhausting than hearing about the White Sox having "one of the best bullpens in the game." No one who actually watches the games would argue this. The White Sox strike out a ton of guys; they're 14th in baseball in ERA, 10th in FIP, and 4th worst in blown saves/games. At some point, the praise for a unit who has not gotten the job done just becomes tiring to read about. And ALL of that is despite having the second fewest innings pitched in baseball because their starters have been so damn good; so they aren't even overworked. They're just overrated and they remain as being the weak point of the entire roster despite them investing more money than any team in baseball on that unit.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Kyyle23]

29 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Potatoes.

Tomatoes

[Tony]

32 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Codi Heuer outperformed Craig Kimbrel last year and has outperformed him since the trade. Is he better? No. Can he better over the sample the Sox acquired Kimbrel for, 100%.

As per your bolded part, one set of innings was guaranteed to occur when the Sox made the trade, the other set of innings was not guaranteed. The Sox didn't trade for Kimbrel so he could struggle in the regular season and not help their chances in obtaining home field throughout. They acquired him to bolster the bullpen the day they got him, not 2 months later.

As for your bolded/italicized part, there's nothing more exhausting than hearing about the White Sox having "one of the best bullpens in the game." No one who actually watches the games would argue this. The White Sox strike out a ton of guys; they're 14th in baseball in ERA, 10th in FIP, and 4th worst in blown saves/games. At some point, the praise for a unit who has not gotten the job done just becomes tiring to read about. And ALL of that is despite having the second fewest innings pitched in baseball because their starters have been so damn good; so they aren't even overworked. They're just overrated and they remain as being the weak point of the entire roster despite them investing more money than any team in baseball on that unit.

Which is why they went out and acquired the best relief pitcher in 2021.....a move you hated. 

[Dick Allen]

37 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Codi Heuer outperformed Craig Kimbrel last year and has outperformed him since the trade. Is he better? No. Can he better over the sample the Sox acquired Kimbrel for, 100%.

As per your bolded part, one set of innings was guaranteed to occur when the Sox made the trade, the other set of innings was not guaranteed. The Sox didn't trade for Kimbrel so he could struggle in the regular season and not help their chances in obtaining home field throughout. They acquired him to bolster the bullpen the day they got him, not 2 months later.

As for your bolded/italicized part, there's nothing more exhausting than hearing about the White Sox having "one of the best bullpens in the game." No one who actually watches the games would argue this. The White Sox strike out a ton of guys; they're 14th in baseball in ERA, 10th in FIP, and 4th worst in blown saves/games. At some point, the praise for a unit who has not gotten the job done just becomes tiring to read about. And ALL of that is despite having the second fewest innings pitched in baseball because their starters have been so damn good; so they aren't even overworked. They're just overrated and they remain as being the weak point of the entire roster despite them investing more money than any team in baseball on that unit.

So if you were managing the White Sox in October, you would rather have Heuer than Kimbrel, correct? Since you are twisting and turning stats in an attempt to fit your narrative, wouldn't the 2021 Codi Heuer bear some blame for the White Sox overrated bullpen?

Edited August 24, 2021 by Dick Allen

[mmmmmbeeer]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

y’all gotta add links when you mention stuff that happens.

 

Didn't see the replay until this post, so thanks, and interesting article.

While Kimbrel's pitch was absolute garbage, notice that Seby wasn't even leaning toward the outside for the breaking ball.  He was essentially in an upright position, giving him absolutely zero chance of getting to that ball.  If he's been lined up outside with his legs ready to move quickly outside, I think he has a decent chance of getting to the ball, if not just knocking it down.  

[RG23SoxFan]

11 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Didn't see the replay until this post, so thanks, and interesting article.

While Kimbrel's pitch was absolute garbage, notice that Seby wasn't even leaning toward the outside for the breaking ball.  He was essentially in an upright position, giving him absolutely zero chance of getting to that ball.  If he's been lined up outside with his legs ready to move quickly outside, I think he has a decent chance of getting to the ball, if not just knocking it down.  

Exactly, the catcher knows what's coming so the good ones anticipate this happening.  Of course no catcher can prevent everything but way too many balls are getting past Zavala.

[hi8is]

58 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Tomatoes

Now we’re talkin.

[mqr]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

There are a lot of stupid points to unpack here. 

Craig Kimbrel was acquired to bolster the Sox bullpen, giving them one of the best pens in the game, shutting games down with Kopech-Kimbrel-Hendricks. Given where the Sox are in the standings and the unique lead they have in late August.......ultimately Kimbrel will hold the most value in October.

You seem to be equating late August innings with the same level of importance as an 8th inning in the ALCS with the bases loaded. They aren't even close. 

Additionally, you have almost an indefensible statement of: "That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution." There are like 8 things wrong here. 

- That "10 years of control" are referring to an oft-injured slapdick hitter who won't be back until 2022, and Codi Heuer, a middle reliever who had a 5.12 ERA with the Sox in 2021 (I know you love to reference ERA for relievers, so I thought I would make it simple for you.) IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH, you reference Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October...........Then the same absolutely applies for Heuer and Madrigal, even moreso since one of them isn't even playing. You can't have it both ways, that Kimbrel doesn't matter because he's a reliever, but they gave up 10 years of control!!! for him when you're referencing Codi Heuer as part of that equation. 

 This is a very simple topic. Craig Kimbrel has not been good with the Sox up this point. If this type of performance happens in the playoffs, he will have been a massive disappointment. If he contributes positive, dominant innings for the Sox, especially in the playoffs...it was a worthwhile gamble as the Sox gave up items that shouldn't hurt them moving forward. You didn't like the trade when it happened, and you're letting everyone know about it with Kimbrel struggling about how smart you are. 

I'm really struggling to find how trading who they traded for a hall of famer at their weakest position in the middle of his best season was not worth the gamble, even if it doesn't work out. 

Nick Madrigal and Cody Heur are not guys who were ever going to extend or contract their window. The window is right now, and neither of them are ready for it. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by mqr

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

So if you were managing the White Sox in October, you would rather have Heuer than Kimbrel, correct? Since you are twisting and turning stats in an attempt to fit your narrative, wouldn't the 2021 Codi Heuer bear some blame for the White Sox overrated bullpen?

I would rather have Kris Bryant and Codi Heuer than Craig Kimbrel.. and it would have cost less. That would have been better for the teams chances to win a World Series this year than the current plan.

I literally say that Kimbrel is better than Heuer in that post, so while you continue to ignore the things I say and distort them I'll continue to express the frustrations I had with the way the team allocated resources at the deadline.

Kimbrel wasn't dominant in Boston in 2018. He was bad in 2019 and 2020. And he was great for 30 innings in 2021. People who keep comparing him to the period of time when he was the best reliever in baseball is like someone bringing up Griffey's Seattle numbers when the Sox acquired him; although I'm obviously exaggerating slightly here as Kimbrel was much better this year than Griffey was the year we acquired him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

25 minutes ago, mqr said:

I'm really struggling to find how trading who they traded for a hall of famer at their weakest position in the middle of his best season was not worth the gamble, even if it doesn't work out. 

Nick Madrigal and Cody Heur are not guys who were ever going to extend or contract their window. The window is right now, and neither of them are ready for it. 

Their weakest position this year is RF.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Their weakest position this year is RF.

I disagree, but that's beside the point. They traded two members of the supporting cast who were awol anyway to bolster a spot (non-hendriks relievers ) that has been awful with someone who had been absolutely lights out. 

It was worth a shot even if it blows up

[raBBit]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just want this on record, as Tony claimed this last night.

 1- So if the Sox get bounced in the first round of the playoffs and Kimbrel pitches one inning, the trade was a loss no matter what?

 If the Sox win the World Series but Kimbrel has like a 4.5-5 postseason ERA, the trade was a win?

2 -Neither of those make any sense, but that appears to be the argument.

3 - That the Sox gave up 10 years of team control for, possibly, 2 innings of baseball. Kimbrel doesn't control whether the Sox win or lose in October, he merely is a piece of the contribution.

4 - Small samples were always going to dictate the viability of the trade, so chalking up his failures to small sample noise is exactly why the trade was a shit one to begin with, no? You now want the small sample of 9 innings to be considered meaningless, while the small sample of the playoffs is meaningful. You just can't have it both ways.

1 - I didn't say this you did. I believe in Madrigal as a hitter and think he will be an annual ~3 WAR guy. It is possible he continues to get injured over-and-over again and never amounts to much. If the Sox get bounced in the ALDS the next two years, they lose the trade unless Madrigal is an abject failure. Kimbrel is a premium reliever and a guy who has the ability to make a significant impact in October. Especially when he's adjacent to Hendriks, Kopech, Bummer, etc. The Sox took a significant risk on Kimbrel. They took the type of risk you take when you have a World Series caliber roster. You have to be okay with losing the trade when you make that trade. We are better off in October 2021 & 2022 with Kimbrel than we are with Madrigal and Heuer. 

2 - I can't believe the arguments you made up for me don't make any sense. I am shocked. You can respond to what my post said you don't have to set up strawmen to make your point. 

3 - No one said that Kimbrel alone controls whether the Sox win in October. We are certainly better off winning in October with him than with Madrigal and Heuer. I think even you would admit that.

4 - So 9 innings in August = 9 innings in October? You're taking exception to me saying October results are more important than August when the team has had a double digit game division lead? I don't even need to respond to that you've basically talked yourself into a ridiculous position. 

In general, I don't take exception to people saying Kimbrel for Madrigal/Heuer wasn't our best route in July. I find the deal very difficult to stomach myself. We are certainly mortgaging the future a bit to bolster our chances in 2021/2022.  I probably value Madrigal more than the Sox did but that's what aggressive teams who value every shot at winning do. Unfortunately, the odds are we do lose this trade but our odds of winning a World Series in 2021/2022 go up significantly after adding a guy who has been the best reliever in baseball this year and a likely HoF pitcher. I do take exception to someone freaking out over a small sample because they are more concerned with saying "I told you so" and being right than having a sound, grounded opinion. 

[raBBit]

43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would rather have Kris Bryant and Codi Heuer than Craig Kimbrel.. and it would have cost less. That would have been better for the teams chances to win a World Series this year than the current plan.

 I literally say that Kimbrel is better than Heuer in that post, so while you continue to ignore the things I say and distort them I'll continue to express the frustrations I had with the way the team allocated resources at the deadline.

 Kimbrel wasn't dominant in Boston in 2018. He was bad in 2019 and 2020. And he was great for 30 innings in 2021. People who keep comparing him to the period of time when he was the best reliever in baseball is like someone bringing up Griffey's Seattle numbers when the Sox acquired him; although I'm obviously exaggerating slightly here as Kimbrel was much better this year than Griffey was the year we acquired him.

When the Sox acquired Kimbrel, he led all relievers in MLB in WAR, ERA, FIP and K/9. I don't know how you would quantify the best reliever in 2021, but I don't know there is an argument for anyone outperforming him to that point. So this example is patently false and you seem to be grasping at straws.