Perspective

[mqr]

9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I was told he (.571) was better than Rick Renteria (.583).

I'm not Tony apologist, but using .012 points of win percentage to definitively say Renteria is better than LaRussa, especially when one managed a 60 game season, is one of the more absurd points of evidence I've seen on here. 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I was told by Hahn his manager search would consist of interviews of candidates with recent postseason experience.

I was told that Tony would never be “outmanaged”, that he and his teams would always come prepared.

I was told he (.571) was better than Rick Renteria (.583).

I was told a lot of things.

 

Where are you getting a .583 percentage? From his best partial season? That’s about as fair as pulling out his 62-100 season and just using that. I think your argument against TLR can be made without trying to make Renteria look way better than he actually was. 

But I will give Ricky credit for one thing he did lead MLB in getting ejected in 2017. But he was a bust as a first round draft pick and he was a bust as a manager. If anything his three and a third seasons as the White Sox manager highlights how long the team will keep people around. The Cubs only needed one season to know he wasn’t the guy.
 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

12 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Where are you getting a .583 percentage? From his best partial season? That’s about as fair as pulling out his 62-100 season and just using that. I think your argument against TLR can be made without trying to make Renteria look way better than he actually was. 

But I will give Ricky credit for one thing he did lead MLB in getting ejected in 2017. But he was a bust as a first round draft pick and he was a bust as a manager. If anything his three and a third seasons as the White Sox manager highlights how long the team will keep people around. The Cubs only needed one season to know he wasn’t the guy.

Seems more legitimate to discuss Sox teams which in theory actually attempted to field a competitive team.

Ricky played an instrumental role in developing the current core roster. If you don't acknowledge that, I don't no what to tell you.

Edited August 25, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[Texsox]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Seems more legitimate to discuss Sox teams which in theory actually attempted to field a competitive team.

Ricky played an instrumental role in developing the current core roster. If you don't acknowledge that, I don't no what to tell you.

Which seasons are you picking for Tony where the clubs were actually attempting to field a competitive team?

[South Side Hit Men]

16 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Which seasons are you picking for Tony where the clubs were actually attempting to field a competitive team?

Where they tanking in the 80s? 1997 is the only other year under Jerry I remember white flags waving from the owners box.

Tony has a full rotation and Ricky had two, and still finished with a better record, despite Tony's alleged "schematic advantage".

[greg775]

3 hours ago, mqr said:

I'm not Tony apologist, but using .012 points of win percentage to definitively say Renteria is better than LaRussa, especially when one managed a 60 game season, is one of the more absurd points of evidence I've seen on here. 

I'm not a big manager ripper guy but if Tony ever does anything as stupid as Ricky did in the playoffs taking the starter out in the first inning ... then I'll rip Tony. It's comical how bad a move that was.

[Texsox]

30 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Where they tanking in the 80s? 1997 is the only other year under Jerry I remember white flags waving from the owners box.

Tony has a full rotation and Ricky had two, and still finished with a better record, despite Tony's alleged "schematic advantage".

Fair enough. Compare all of Tony's seasons with a 60 game season for Rick. 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Fair enough. Compare all of Tony's seasons with a 60 game season for Rick. 

 

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I was told by Hahn his manager search would consist of interviews of candidates with recent postseason experience.

I was told that Tony would never be “outmanaged”, that he and his teams would always come prepared.

I was told he (.571) was better than Rick Renteria (.583).

I was told a lot of things.

 

I used the 2020 vs. 2021 winning percentages through yesterday. Perhaps you were mistaking .571 with his White Sox (.513) or entire career (.537).

[ThirdGen]

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Fair enough. Compare all of Tony's seasons with a 60 game season for Rick. 

 

And Rick's 60 game season was only against the relatively weak Central divisions.  Sox are .600 against those teams this year.

[35thstreetswarm]

I vividly remember sitting with a Red Sox fan acquaintance the week entering the 2005 playoffs.  He said “boy, I wouldn’t be feeling too good if I were you.  White Sox almost blew their lead and haven’t really played well in like three months.  Red Sox are the champs.  Just doesn’t feel like your year.”  You know what?  Deep down, I felt “he’s right.”  That was the zeitgeist at that moment.  Couldn’t beat the good teams.  Recently spanked by the Angels.  We were out of gas.  He was right. 
 

Until he wasn’t.  Lots of revisionist history about the 2005 team.  Not sure what will happen with this bunch, but we’re blessed to be in position to roll into the playoffs untouched.  If we get hot at the right time with our full team together (for more or less the first time) watch the fuck out.

[2Deep]

I'm Worried that this team has coasted for so long

I'm worried the bullpen will not fix the flaws that keep cropping up in 8th inning or big moments 

I'm worried that injuries are never going to allow this team to be at full strength 

I'm worried that the lack of playoff experience, as a team, with the coasting into playoffs will make this team one and done 

I'm worried that this offense will disappear when we need it in playoffs 

I'm worried that we will continue to be non aggressive in playoffs and play stAtion to station baseball, hitting into double plays and killing rallies

I'm worried that Leury Garcia is going to find a way into the lineup in a important playoff game

I'm not worried about the manager in the playoffs and his understanding of how to manage the game 

I'm not worried about our starting 4 in playoffs (Lynn, rodon, Giolitto, cease)

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by 2Deep

[Texsox]

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

I used the 2020 vs. 2021 winning percentages through yesterday. Perhaps you were mistaking .571 with his White Sox (.513) or entire career (.537).

I thought you were mistaking his career (.437)  or White Sox (.433) Ok Ricky was a great hire by the front office. What do you think of his Hall of Fame chances? His chances of ever managing again in baseball? 

[Chimpton]

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

I used the 2020 vs. 2021 winning percentages through yesterday. Perhaps you were mistaking .571 with his White Sox (.513) or entire career (.537).

Remind me what happened to Ricky's team post season. I would take TLR having a lower winning % over a full season and a better post season run.

[Chimpton]

7 hours ago, 2Deep said:

I'm Worried that this team has coasted for so long

I'm worried the bullpen will not fix the flaws that keep cropping up in 8th inning or big moments 

I'm worried that injuries are never going to allow this team to be at full strength 

I'm worried that the lack of playoff experience, as a team, with the coasting into playoffs will make this team one and done 

I'm worried that this offense will disappear when we need it in playoffs 

I'm worried that we will continue to be non aggressive in playoffs and play stAtion to station baseball, hitting into double plays and killing rallies

I'm worried that Leury Garcia is going to find a way into the lineup in a important playoff game

I'm not worried about the manager in the playoffs and his understanding of how to manage the game 

I'm not worried about our starting 4 in playoffs (Lynn, rodon, Giolitto, cease)

 

The coasting issue is a worry as it would be hard to simply switch on post season if this end of season coasting continues, especially when looking at the record against winning teams.

[wegner]

7 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I vividly remember sitting with a Red Sox fan acquaintance the week entering the 2005 playoffs.  He said “boy, I wouldn’t be feeling too good if I were you.  White Sox almost blew their lead and haven’t really played well in like three months.  Red Sox are the champs.  Just doesn’t feel like your year.”  You know what?  Deep down, I felt “he’s right.”  That was the zeitgeist at that moment.  Couldn’t beat the good teams.  Recently spanked by the Angels.  We were out of gas.  He was right. 
 

Until he wasn’t.  Lots of revisionist history about the 2005 team.  Not sure what will happen with this bunch, but we’re blessed to be in position to roll into the playoffs untouched.  If we get hot at the right time with our full team together (for more or less the first time) watch the fuck out.

This team is so streaky.  My gut feeling...if they don't lose in the 1st round, they make the World Series...no idea if they beat whoever comes out of the NL.

However, I was thinking about last year and the real game changer is the starting pitching...against the A's Giolito was outstanding, but Dallas was not and we had nothing after that.   Now....Lynn, Rodon, Giolito, Cease look very good.  The offense just can't disappear and the bullpen has to pretend they are playing the 7th inning twice and on to the 9th (treat the 8th like some tall buildings do by just skipping a 13th floor...that 8th inning is cursed this year)

I'm excited to see postseason baseball for the SouthSiders 2 years in a row...something I have never seen in my lifetime.

[Texsox]

41 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Remind me what happened to Ricky's team post season. I would take TLR having a lower winning % over a full season and a better post season run.

Agreed. Rick’s finger prints are on this team, along with the front office and ownership. He did some good.

I know a solid case can be made that Tony wasn’t the best pick available. But making Ricky seem like the second coming of Connie Mack doesn’t work for me. Ricky can grab a beer with Doug Collins and compare notes. 

[Chimpton]

30 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Agreed. Rick’s finger prints are on this team, along with the front office and ownership. He did some good.

I know a solid case can be made that Tony wasn’t the best pick available. But making Ricky seem like the second coming of Connie Mack doesn’t work for me. Ricky can grab a beer with Doug Collins and compare notes. 

Oh for sure, Ricky was a vital stage in the rebuild and taught the players some good habits.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Agreed. Rick’s finger prints are on this team, along with the front office and ownership. He did some good.

I know a solid case can be made that Tony wasn’t the best pick available. But making Ricky seem like the second coming of Connie Mack doesn’t work for me. Ricky can grab a beer with Doug Collins and compare notes. 

Yet nobody was doing that here. There were better options than either.

And I wasn't the one calling for, let alone giving Ricky a contract extension, only to fire him 60 games later. Perhaps this is why he had little to no say on the third of three managers during his 9 seasons.

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, 2Deep said:

I'm Worried that this team has coasted for so long

I'm worried the bullpen will not fix the flaws that keep cropping up in 8th inning or big moments 

I'm worried that injuries are never going to allow this team to be at full strength 

I'm worried that the lack of playoff experience, as a team, with the coasting into playoffs will make this team one and done 

I'm worried that this offense will disappear when we need it in playoffs 

I'm worried that we will continue to be non aggressive in playoffs and play stAtion to station baseball, hitting into double plays and killing rallies

I'm worried that Leury Garcia is going to find a way into the lineup in a important playoff game

I'm not worried about the manager in the playoffs and his understanding of how to manage the game 

I'm not worried about our starting 4 in playoffs (Lynn, rodon, Giolitto, cease)

 

I'm not missing the forest for the trees.  The last two seasons are exactly why we suffered through years of a rebuild.  If you are too busy worrying, you are missing out on the journey.

[Snopek]

11 hours ago, 2Deep said:

I'm Worried that this team has coasted for so long

I'm worried the bullpen will not fix the flaws that keep cropping up in 8th inning or big moments 

I'm worried that injuries are never going to allow this team to be at full strength 

I'm worried that the lack of playoff experience, as a team, with the coasting into playoffs will make this team one and done 

I'm worried that this offense will disappear when we need it in playoffs 

I'm worried that we will continue to be non aggressive in playoffs and play stAtion to station baseball, hitting into double plays and killing rallies

I'm worried that Leury Garcia is going to find a way into the lineup in a important playoff game

I'm not worried about the manager in the playoffs and his understanding of how to manage the game 

I'm not worried about our starting 4 in playoffs (Lynn, rodon, Giolitto, cease)

 

The bolded part is the only one that truly gives me some apprehension, but there's not a whole lot you can do about that.

I get where you're coming from with the rest of the list, but I'm more concerned with which Giolito and Cease show up in their playoff starts than anything else you mention.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Dick Allen]

19 hours ago, greg775 said:

I'm not a big manager ripper guy but if Tony ever does anything as stupid as Ricky did in the playoffs taking the starter out in the first inning ... then I'll rip Tony. It's comical how bad a move that was.

I agree. He had the bullpen going the second he gave up a hit.

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Next step is to improve his IP/GS.