lostfan Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said: This thread is bad karma. Dude's gonna get hurt or go into a massive slump if this continues. The guy sucks. He's never hit for the cycle, never had a 3 HR game, and hasn't magically transformed Eloy into a gold glove left fielder. Hell, he didn't even play 100 games his rookie season. What kind of superstar can't even play 100 games as a rookie? I, too, possess this special negative power but it only seems to work on the Bears but I'll give it a try Luis Robert is a bust. Another embarrassing failure by our scouting department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, poppysox said: I agree with your comments. Allen doesn't come to mind for today's fan because he didn't play the majority of his career with the WS. He was a show stopper when it was his turn to bat. I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, lostfan said: I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 ? I understand. But when the discussion is about the best WS player of all time...for one season he is probably the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, lostfan said: I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 ? I am 53. I recall Dick (Richie) Allen was an absolute idol although I was too young to judge his talent. The jersey day promotion was a red pinstripe with his number, and it was just a t-shirt. Wish I had it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: I am not going to say this lightly, but the man has Trout tools. The big thing he needs to do is stay healthy. If he can play 150 games a season, he will be an MVP level guy. He has it all. The Sox have never had a guy with the whole package like Luis has. We have had a HOF hitter in Frank, but he couldn't field to save his life. We have had insane defenders, who couldn't hit. We had guys like Magglio Ordonez who fielded pretty well, and could hit the shit out of the ball, but didn't have ++ speed. If Luis Robert stays healthy, he is a human cheat code. So, Adam Engel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Without answering yet…don’t forget the names Acuna and Franco while making lists like this. Maybe Soto too? Yes, fair point. Of course if I am going back for Bo I should include Griffey, Jr. as well. Anyway, I suppose this probably all belongs in a thread of its own... Edited August 31, 2021 by SpringfieldFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 12 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said: I'm very encouraged both by this approach at the plate pre-injury, as well as the fact he's been able to build upon that success since coming back. That said, it's incredibly premature to be asking questions about him being one of the best White Sox of all time. The tools are there but there have been a ton of guys who have come into this league as 5-tool threats who just drifted out of the game without ever reaching their potential. I'm seriously excited for what he could do for this franchise but let's pump the brakes a bit on the GOAT talk until he plays an entire season or two. No one said he IS that. Even the thread title is about RAW TALENT. Everyone in here is talking about what he COULD be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said: This is a tough question because I can only answer according to the players I have witnessed. I saw Dick Allen but was to young to judge talent so I would say Luis has the most raw talent. Imagine you were given a hat with these names and you get to keep the name you draw. Which would you hope you pick? Luis Ohtoni Tatis, Jr. Trout A young healthy Bo Jackson Ohtani. Not only is he still cheap, but he is also a superstar hitter AND pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, poppysox said: I understand. But when the discussion is about the best WS player of all time...for one season he is probably the winner. Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdGen Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I wish there was a way to go back and use the tools we currently use to evaluate players to evaluate players from previous generations. I recall Dick Allen having insane power. But I wonder how his exit velocity would compare to Robert and Jimenez. The size and strength of today's players makes players from the 70's and 80's look like high school kids. Frank was part of the first generation that were built like that (many through modern science). A lot of people blame cell phones and a lack of attention for the need to screen in the stands. The real reason is that the current generation of players- 1 through 9- hit the ball a hell of a lot harder than prior generations did. I do believe Robert has the ability to retire as the Sox GOAT. I've never seen such raw all around talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here. Yes, that is true...and for the same reason as Allen. For me, that comparison would be easily won by Allen but Belle is certainly in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here. a 7 fWAR, 162 wRC+ season, gotta be top 10 all time for the Sox I'd imagine. But he only really had the one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: a 7 fWAR, 162 wRC+ season, gotta be top 10 all time for the Sox I'd imagine. But he only really had the one year. He was talking about short term wonders (one season even) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: He was talking about short term wonders (one season even) https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/leaders_bat_season.shtml Not too shabby for Albert. Dick Allen with that monster season, mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossanoveralls Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime. Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said: Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime. Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player. To be fair, Harold Reynolds has a high opinion of everyone as a baseball player. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said: Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime. Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player. Bo was a great athlete, maybe one of the best of all time, but he wasn't a great baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said: Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime. Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player. I have said this before, and will say it again. Luis Robert is Bo Jackson if he had two good hips and played only baseball. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 he will win an MVP and my guess during our next 2-4 year run. We already have the leg up of a winning team which helps with votes, but overall, yes like everybody is saying here he's a freak. If he can stay healthy, and if he is let loose on the base paths plus utilized at the 3-4-5 spot? easily can win a MVP. Just looking at it through the Hawk eye test? He makes Yoan and Eloy look pedestrian at times. Should be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossanoveralls Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, Quin said: To be fair, Harold Reynolds has a high opinion of everyone as a baseball player. Everyone didn't throw a strike from the warning track to get Harold out at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Bo was a great athlete, maybe one of the best of all time, but he wasn't a great baseball player. He absolutely was on the path to becoming one. And his numbers prior to his hip blowing up were nothing to scoff at 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: He absolutely was on the path to becoming one. And his numbers prior to his hip blowing up were nothing to scoff at I just don't see it. He was a 3 WAR player at 27 and it was by far his best year. For all his athletic gifts he could not hit breaking balls to save his life and defensively he was bad by every advanced metric. Maybe he could have put it together and had a couple 5 WAR seasons, but that's a very optimistic projection given the swing and miss in his game and the not just mediocre but outright bad defense. It's hard to be negative run values in CF but he was that on both Fangraphs and B-Ref. Maybe those metrics are just wrong, but I'll take them over the eye test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I literally would go to an MLB game just to see Robert play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Kuntz Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Similar to Ken Griffey Jr. Probably won't be quite that level of CF as he fills out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I just don't see it. He was a 3 WAR player at 27 and it was by far his best year. For all his athletic gifts he could not hit breaking balls to save his life and defensively he was bad by every advanced metric. Maybe he could have put it together and had a couple 5 WAR seasons, but that's a very optimistic projection given the swing and miss in his game and the not just mediocre but outright bad defense. It's hard to be negative run values in CF but he was that on both Fangraphs and B-Ref. Maybe those metrics are just wrong, but I'll take them over the eye test. The guy never had an off-season. If he actually picked a sport, either sport, he could have been HOF caliber. He did things that normal baseball players cannot do, based on pure athleticism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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