2021 NFL Season Thread

[SoxAce]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Since he took over as Chairman 11 seasons ago  the Bears have had 1 winning season and 0 playoff wins. George needs to letsomone else have a shot. He makes his late  brother look like a football genius.

Drafted two... TWO quarterbacks and hired TWO head coaches. Not to mention has traded multiple draft capital and has crippled the salary cap for the Bears.

He better be gone.

[Tony]

37 minutes ago, lostfan said:

The most common defense of Ryan Pace is that he drafts well. That's debatable but let's just go ahead and grant that as true. Now look at the current construction of the Bears' roster from top to bottom and see how abysmal it is, and that's pretty indefensible. In 2018 they had the best front 7 and the best secondary in the league, those days are long gone and now the defense is a shell of its former self. Every team every year loses guys to free agency/salary cap, injuries, retirement, etc. and if you can't replace talent at at least the rate you're losing it, you're simply not good at your job. Pace has objectively failed at this, and whatever he does right he cancels out by wasting resources.

Sort of feel like this tweet sums up the entire Ryan Pace experience. 

It's like the perfect move. 

Mis-identify QB at the top of the draft? ☑️

Give up unnecessary assets to acquire said QB? ☑️

Lose out on talented player in the 2nd round? ☑️

Get cute and draft a TE from Ashland University (?!?) in the 2nd round? ☑️

It doesn't even mention the Bears then having to go out in the next off-season and give Trey Burton a 4/32 million dollar deal because they realized in training camp Adam Shaheen didn't know how to play football. And then when the Burton experiment failed, they gave Jimmy Graham a 2/16 million dollar deal, who is currently the third highest paid offense player on the Bears and in 11 games this year has 16 catches for 108 yards. 

Oh yeah! I almost forgot the Bears also spent a 2nd round pick in 2020 on Cole Kmet! 

Ryan Pace, everyone. 

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

Sort of feel like this tweet sums up the entire Ryan Pace experience. 

It's like the perfect move. 

Mis-identify QB at the top of the draft? ☑️

Give up unnecessary assets to acquire said QB? ☑️

Lose out on talented player in the 2nd round? ☑️

Get cute and draft a TE from Ashland University (?!?) in the 2nd round? ☑️

It doesn't even mention the Bears then having to go out in the next off-season and give Trey Burton a 4/32 million dollar deal because they realized in training camp Adam Shaheen didn't know how to play football. And then when the Burton experiment failed, they gave Jimmy Graham a 2/16 million dollar deal, who is currently the third highest paid offense player on the Bears and in 11 games this year has 16 catches for 108 yards. 

Oh yeah! I almost forgot the Bears also spent a 2nd round pick in 2020 on Cole Kmet! 

Ryan Pace, everyone. 

My fav head scratching thing with pace - maybe it’s Nagy too - is this obsession with certain positions where they’ll bring in loads and loads of competition like TE and K, but meanwhile they left Sam must up her without any competition and he has been atrocious. Linebacker was the thinnest it’s ever been. Kindle vildor? Yeah. He’s fine we can just let go any corners left.

It does just remind me so much of the 2016 white sox. Just obsessing over getting these particular weaknesses right and getting tunnel vision and missing that the whole team was too weak.

In general, a move to where the team stops acting like they are one or two positions away will be a help in itself

[lostfan]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Sort of feel like this tweet sums up the entire Ryan Pace experience. 

It's like the perfect move. 

Mis-identify QB at the top of the draft? ☑️

Give up unnecessary assets to acquire said QB? ☑️

Lose out on talented player in the 2nd round? ☑️

Get cute and draft a TE from Ashland University (?!?) in the 2nd round? ☑️

It doesn't even mention the Bears then having to go out in the next off-season and give Trey Burton a 4/32 million dollar deal because they realized in training camp Adam Shaheen didn't know how to play football. And then when the Burton experiment failed, they gave Jimmy Graham a 2/16 million dollar deal, who is currently the third highest paid offense player on the Bears and in 11 games this year has 16 catches for 108 yards. 

Oh yeah! I almost forgot the Bears also spent a 2nd round pick in 2020 on Cole Kmet! 

Ryan Pace, everyone. 

I've lost track of the players Pace traded up to draft who ended up being busts*

-At the time, I had far less of a problem with them drafting Trubisky (even though I wanted Watson) than the draft capital that was wasted to pick him. The Bears were in a position where it should've been impossible to fuck that up and still found a way. I've complained about this a million times, so have others, I'm still not over how stupid it was.

*In the spirit of fairness I won't count the Fields or Mack trades against him, even though it's going to sting not having a first round pick *again*

[Tony]

1 minute ago, lostfan said:

I've lost track of the players Pace traded up to draft who ended up being busts*

-At the time, I had far less of a problem with them drafting Trubisky (even though I wanted Watson) than the draft capital that was wasted to pick him. The Bears were in a position where it should've been impossible to fuck that up and still found a way. I've complained about this a million times, so have others, I'm still not over how stupid it was.

*In the spirit of fairness I won't count the Fields or Mack trades against him, even though it's going to sting not having a first round pick *again*

I've said since the day they made the move I actually don't have a problem with the strategy....QB is the most important position in sports and if you're absolutely convinced he is your franchise QB...go get him. If it costs a little extra so be it, because if he is the franchise QB the Bears have been looking for these last 100 years...no one will care if you "overpay." 

But if that's how you want to approach it, you better get it right. You can't push all your chips into the middle of the table, lose, and still be able to keep your job. That's not how it works. He's missed on so many picks, and the capital spent to fix those mistakes have absolutely crippled this franchise. 

[Chisoxfn]

At this point - I am fairly certain there are going to be massive changes at Halas Hall.  The Trace Armstrong report was, if nothing else interesting. We have seen the agent route work a lot in the NBA - not sure how it would play out in football - but he clearly has connections and knows people so see some aspect of why the move to bring him in as president could work out.  However - if Bears are going to act in this department - they need to get to work relatively fast. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

I just don’t think he’s a very good throwing QB.  He’s elusive as hell, but after seeing Stroud look like a superstar this year in the OSU system, it shows you how great their scheme was.

I agree.  The physical traits are obvious but it takes more than that to be an elite level QB and the arm action and slower release is concerning.  

[ShoeLessRob]

Nagy will be gone, Pace better be gone, and Ol’ Tedd should be gone. Franchise is totally lost.

[Kyyle23]

? hello darkness my old friend ? 

[Chisoxfn]

I do still look forward to the final 4 games.  I would like to see the team run the table and end on a nice positive note - ideally driven by improving play out of there younger players.  I say this knowing the fate de complit has been made on most of the front office/coaching staff and they don't have a first overall pick, so I do want to see this team win some more games vs. going into an ugly death spiral.  

[Tony]

18 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

? hello darkness my old friend ? 

I know we talk about coaches/players being honest, but someone has to get with him and say "Matt, NO ONE is enjoying the 'aw shucks' routine you think is actually working here." 

In what world does he think that comes off well? 

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Nagy will be gone, Pace better be gone, and Ol’ Tedd should be gone. Franchise is totally lost.

I think Pace being gone is 50/50 and if the Bears run the table in the last four I think he stays. 

[Chisoxfn]

13 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I think Pace being gone is 50/50 and if the Bears run the table in the last four I think he stays. 

You might be right - maybe I need to change my hope down to win 2 out of 4. 

[StrangeSox]

Chicago has the second lowest amount of picks in Rounds 1-4 since 2015 at only 24.

For all his trading up, Pace has drafted a total of 5 first round picks. Justin Fields, Roquan Smith,  Trubisky, Leonard Floyd, and Kevin White. Three of these players aren't on the team anymore.

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Chicago has the second lowest amount of picks in Rounds 1-4 since 2015 at only 24.

For all his trading up, Pace has drafted a total of 5 first round picks. Justin Fields, Roquan Smith,  Trubisky, Leonard Floyd, and Kevin White. Three of these players aren't on the team anymore.

The Bears are a damned dumpster fire.  If anyone in Chicago should see it, they should look at the change in the Bulls from top to bottom and realize that is what they needc to do.

[Harry Chappas]

George was the ticket guy.  Probably the easiest job in America is selling Bears tickets and that was his role in life prior to taking charge of the organization.  George probably knows less about football than most folks on this Board, yet there he is along with the team accountant running the operation and wondering why they can't get it right. 

Pace will take a new title, Nagy with be fired and some other crap will be moved around. Nothing will change but talk radio with continue to spend hours on end trying to fill the airwaves with content while this is nothing that needs to be discussed after about 30 minutes. 

 

[bmags]

GM searches are so funny because it is so impossible to have strong opinions about people whose performance, beliefs and relationships we know so little about. We just have to sorta broadly attribute entire organizations success to them.

What was important to me with Karnisovas with the Bulls was more than anything that had the bulls act like the premier franchise that it was. I don't even know if that works in football, there are too many moving parts. The Steelers, the Packers, at this point there is such engrained process and success in those franchises that it's hard to pick out anyone like Tomlin and say we are good. What is Tomlin outside of an org that has such strengths of talent development from players to front office? What is John Harbaugh away from what Ozzie Newsome created for that org in Baltimore?

I think at this point I believe that getting any "system" guy is buying last week. Creating an organization who can identify smart, disciplined, versatile football players and coaches that can use them to exploit other teams weaknesses seems more of a sure thing than "We do what we do" in terms of creating consistent winning. Yet it seems impossible to actually achieve, especially with short term results.

Short of the Bears coaxing bill belicheck by giving him ownership shares and complete control, I'm not going to have any clue what the hell the bears are getting.

[Chisoxfn]

So with Bmags talking about front office people - I'll throw out head coaching candidates and who people have.  Thought this article was pretty decent.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/6-bears-head-coach-candidates-if-matt-nagy-fired-including-ryan-day

 I think the big thing to me is - I think I've gained an appreciation for experience, finding a coaching candidate who has seen the rodeo and understands and has showed a skillset to consistently evolve in the league (this doesn't mean old - just means someone who has demonstrated a real ability to be agile and evolve and continue to innovate/stay ahead of the league/respond well to adversity).  

When the Bears went with Nagy - I really couldn't argue the hire. Pace went the way the league was going and found a young, innovative, up and coming mind who had the personality to succeed as a head coach.  I think Pace got MANY of those traits right - however, what we didn't yet know was how said individual would handle adversity and be able to adapt. The biggest issue with Nagy has been his inability to make adjustments and continue to meld his offense so that it stays ahead of the league.  

Once the league got the book on what Nagy did - he basically just kept doing the same (but slightly different). He struggled to create a vision / style that went with the team because quite frankly, in his early coaching tenor he hadn't had to go through those challenges. Where he missed was he didn't have the right coaches around him (or trust in those coaches) nor did he have the right skillets (at least not yet) to lean in and pivot and make appropriate adjustments. 

With that in mind - I think of Joe Brady & Daboll as two people who have yet to show any ability to make real adjustments. Brady is so raw that we really don't know what he is at the NFL level and Daboll, as awesome as his work was with Josh Allen - we have seen the league make adjustments this year and have not YET seen him adjust back.  I think it will be interesting to see how he finishes the season - if he can work with the offense to make the necessary adjustments - HE IMMEDIATELY jumps to the top of my list. 

Other people who fit on my list are Greg Roman - who clearly has demonstrated an innovative way to consistently stay ahead of the league in his ability to optimize the run game, which I think is a really good asset when it comes to developing a young QB. He also has twice shown an ability to adapt offenses around raw, athletic QB's (Kap & Jackson).  I don't know whether he has the other traits - but he has also had a chance to work with two elite head coaches (Harbaugh's) which at the very least is a plus.  

I also am good looking at Dave Toub as well as other defensive coordinators that we think are seasoned and have right fit/personality (Leslie Frazier getting a 2nd chance wouldn't be terrible). The other spot I have no interest in is going to the college ranks.  From Ryan Day to Fitzpatrick (Northwestern) - I just see the risk as too great.  

A few other names that I don't know what to think of, but I could get on board with:

Byron Leftwich - Seemed to do a lot to blend the Arians style with Brady.  Liked what he did there - but its still Brady so I don't know what to really think of Leftwich.  

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC) - Like that he has more experience than Nagy and I still believe heavily in the Andy Reid tree/system.  The plus is there is consistency/similarities that come with Eric, but that is also a potential downside element.  

Todd Bowles (Bucs DC) - Not much I don't like with Bowles. He may be my favorite candidate.  He has had innovative, aggressive defenses everywhere he has been and in hindsight, his tenure with the Jets (given their personal & fact they are the Jets) was a lot better than he initially got credit for. I think he's learned a lot in his subsequent ventures as well and has clearly shown an ability to adapt and evolve in the league and has gotten to spend the past few years working with an offensive guru in Arians, so I think he's positioned to understand what it takes to find the right OC.  

Josh McDaniels - So this is hard for me to write. The way he did the Colts rubs me the wrong way and I can't forgive it and there is the Cutler fiasco. But this is a guy who has shown an innate ability to adjust his offense to reflect various personell and is doing an amazing job positioning a young QB to exceed.  His resume is fantastic - but the intangibles get in the way and as much as I love his performance and how good he can be, its the personality that is making me have an ugly face as I type this.  

Sean Payton - Obvious answer - but if he is interested - I'd give him a blank check to drive change

[Balta1701]

I think there's a decent chance that the Steelers and Tomlin mutually part this year. At the very least that setup seemingly has gotten stale and he's struggling to keep things together. He might not want to go through a rebuilding with no QB in that spot over a couple years. Add him to your list.

[Dick Allen]

13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I think there's a decent chance that the Steelers and Tomlin mutually part this year. At the very least that setup seemingly has gotten stale and he's struggling to keep things together. He might not want to go through a rebuilding with no QB in that spot over a couple years. Add him to your list.

The Steelers have only had 3 head coaches since the end of the 1968 season.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The Steelers have only had 3 head coaches since the end of the 1968 season.

Yeah, this isn't any other organization.

Coaches stick around because they stick around their coaches. Cowher had some lean years too, but the steelers always recover quickly. I don't see either side being sick of each other. And as lean years go - they'll end up around 8-9 or something. Not very brutal. Lots of talent, just need to rebuild their trenches.

[bmags]

18 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

So with Bmags talking about front office people - I'll throw out head coaching candidates and who people have.  Thought this article was pretty decent.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/6-bears-head-coach-candidates-if-matt-nagy-fired-including-ryan-day

 I think the big thing to me is - I think I've gained an appreciation for experience, finding a coaching candidate who has seen the rodeo and understands and has showed a skillset to consistently evolve in the league (this doesn't mean old - just means someone who has demonstrated a real ability to be agile and evolve and continue to innovate/stay ahead of the league/respond well to adversity).  

When the Bears went with Nagy - I really couldn't argue the hire. Pace went the way the league was going and found a young, innovative, up and coming mind who had the personality to succeed as a head coach.  I think Pace got MANY of those traits right - however, what we didn't yet know was how said individual would handle adversity and be able to adapt. The biggest issue with Nagy has been his inability to make adjustments and continue to meld his offense so that it stays ahead of the league.  

Once the league got the book on what Nagy did - he basically just kept doing the same (but slightly different). He struggled to create a vision / style that went with the team because quite frankly, in his early coaching tenor he hadn't had to go through those challenges. Where he missed was he didn't have the right coaches around him (or trust in those coaches) nor did he have the right skillets (at least not yet) to lean in and pivot and make appropriate adjustments. 

With that in mind - I think of Joe Brady & Daboll as two people who have yet to show any ability to make real adjustments. Brady is so raw that we really don't know what he is at the NFL level and Daboll, as awesome as his work was with Josh Allen - we have seen the league make adjustments this year and have not YET seen him adjust back.  I think it will be interesting to see how he finishes the season - if he can work with the offense to make the necessary adjustments - HE IMMEDIATELY jumps to the top of my list. 

Other people who fit on my list are Greg Roman - who clearly has demonstrated an innovative way to consistently stay ahead of the league in his ability to optimize the run game, which I think is a really good asset when it comes to developing a young QB. He also has twice shown an ability to adapt offenses around raw, athletic QB's (Kap & Jackson).  I don't know whether he has the other traits - but he has also had a chance to work with two elite head coaches (Harbaugh's) which at the very least is a plus.  

I also am good looking at Dave Toub as well as other defensive coordinators that we think are seasoned and have right fit/personality (Leslie Frazier getting a 2nd chance wouldn't be terrible). The other spot I have no interest in is going to the college ranks.  From Ryan Day to Fitzpatrick (Northwestern) - I just see the risk as too great.  

A few other names that I don't know what to think of, but I could get on board with:

Byron Leftwich - Seemed to do a lot to blend the Arians style with Brady.  Liked what he did there - but its still Brady so I don't know what to really think of Leftwich.  

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC) - Like that he has more experience than Nagy and I still believe heavily in the Andy Reid tree/system.  The plus is there is consistency/similarities that come with Eric, but that is also a potential downside element.  

Todd Bowles (Bucs DC) - Not much I don't like with Bowles. He may be my favorite candidate.  He has had innovative, aggressive defenses everywhere he has been and in hindsight, his tenure with the Jets (given their personal & fact they are the Jets) was a lot better than he initially got credit for. I think he's learned a lot in his subsequent ventures as well and has clearly shown an ability to adapt and evolve in the league and has gotten to spend the past few years working with an offensive guru in Arians, so I think he's positioned to understand what it takes to find the right OC.  

Josh McDaniels - So this is hard for me to write. The way he did the Colts rubs me the wrong way and I can't forgive it and there is the Cutler fiasco. But this is a guy who has shown an innate ability to adjust his offense to reflect various personell and is doing an amazing job positioning a young QB to exceed.  His resume is fantastic - but the intangibles get in the way and as much as I love his performance and how good he can be, its the personality that is making me have an ugly face as I type this.  

Sean Payton - Obvious answer - but if he is interested - I'd give him a blank check to drive change

Couple names I think will also get thrown around:

Dennis Allen - previous HC experience for the no-winning-as-a-HC Raiders.

Dan Quinn - Atlanta replaced him with a whiz offensive mind (whom I still like!) and it's the same old Falcons. Benjamin Allbricht has reported interest from Broncos.

[Chisoxfn]

9 hours ago, bmags said:

Couple names I think will also get thrown around:

Dennis Allen - previous HC experience for the no-winning-as-a-HC Raiders.

Dan Quinn - Atlanta replaced him with a whiz offensive mind (whom I still like!) and it's the same old Falcons. Benjamin Allbricht has reported interest from Broncos.

Quinn is an interesting one - I think I prefer Bowles if they go retread DC route, but I wouldn't have a massive issue with Quinn. I do think the one rumor that has me most excited is the Trace Armstrong one.  And that IS NOT because I have any idea that Trace Armstrong would be amazing - I do think his connections to football as an agent and obviously his tie-in with the Bears is at the very least intriguing. 

But more importantly it would imply that George is actually laying the groundwork and working on developing a targeted plan prior to letting go of Pace. My biggest fear is McCaskey hasn't made up his mind and therefor is just sitting spinning his wheels waiting on that decision before actually coming up with the broader more important plan.  

If McCaskey truly is back-channeling and looking and evaluating football czars and rethinking everything and reassesing it - it would be a great sign that this off-season would actually be different.  Right now I don't expect that because until the McCaskey's show that type of foresight I won't believe it - but if the Armstrong report is accurate - it would be a really good sign in the right direction.  

I do think we will know pretty quickly - but I'm hoping they have the equivalent of a Chicago Bulls front office/head coaching off-season like 2 years ago - where candidly that groundwork for the new vision and starting point was made throughout that season when they were moving forward with different directions. I am okay if the new football person decides to take a wait and see approach with Pace (I see no reason they would) - but if they take that first step in the right direction and show real foresight - that is still a massive win in my book (and it also kind of implies the new head coach would at least have clarity in terms of alignment with the president). 

That said - at this point - it has to be a reset - but the reset has to start from a thoughtful and strategic place and can't be George and Ted in 3 weeks going - okay, so we just canned them - now what should we do.  If that happens - a broken clock is right twice a day so it could still work, but it would just be more of the same and the probability of making the necessary progress becomes ever more unlikely.  

 

Trace Armstrong, Rick Smith, Dorsey (who I know has issues but can scout talent), Riddick, McKenzie, etc are all good names for various roles in the front office (plus I'm sure a ton of other names I'm not thinking including Champ within the Bears org...although they clearly have to bring in some outside presence to make and influence real change as well).  

Note: The funny part is - I think the McCaskey's actually got Pace & Nagy decently right (but the rot of the org and their own fatal flaws got in the way).  I think Pace back as a personnel guy is going to be excellent and he might have another shot 10 years from now. Nagy, similarly, I think has a ton of qualities you like in an HC - but he has to fail and innovate and work through some more stuff as an OC first before being positioned again. But they both will, in my opinion, have pretty long careers in the NFL and at relatively high levels.  

[SoxAce]

 

[ShoeLessRob]

Yet they gave Nagy this entire year.