2021 NFL Season Thread

[Dick Allen]

6 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Yet they gave Nagy this entire year. 

Think about how excited everyone would have been if the Bears fired Nagy a year ago, and replaced him with Meyer. 

That's why, IMO, college coaches are a crapshoot.  You may hit the jackpot, but you also may crap out. Was it really coaching or recruiting that made OSU so great?

[Balta1701]

7 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Yet they gave Nagy this entire year. 

Meyer wasn’t fired because of the poor performance of his team.

[Kyyle23]

7 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Yet they gave Nagy this entire year. 

Nagy wouldn't have lasted past the part where Urban went out clubbing.  
 

[bmags]

21 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Think about how excited everyone would have been if the Bears fired Nagy a year ago, and replaced him with Meyer. 

That's why, IMO, college coaches are a crapshoot.  You may hit the jackpot, but you also may crap out. Was it really coaching or recruiting that made OSU so great?

I don’t think people would have been that excited, Meyer was pretty polarizing at the time especially knowing he was about to get Lawrence.

But I think the all college coaches fail thing is overblown, all coaches have a terrible hit rate in the nfl.

Where they seem most behind is the lack of NFL relationships to build a staff. Those with previous NFL experience (Carroll, Harbaugh, OBrien) seems to help.

Klingsbury Was helped, and it’s why I thought Riley would be okay too, with so many nfl teams going to him every summer to see what he was doing offensively.

Im not sure any one thing helps but definitely seems like greener coaches without big networks can get behind with staff.

[The Beast]

22 hours ago, bmags said:

Couple names I think will also get thrown around:

Dennis Allen - previous HC experience for the no-winning-as-a-HC Raiders.

Dan Quinn - Atlanta replaced him with a whiz offensive mind (whom I still like!) and it's the same old Falcons. Benjamin Allbricht has reported interest from Broncos.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 3:26 PM, Chisoxfn said:

So with Bmags talking about front office people - I'll throw out head coaching candidates and who people have.  Thought this article was pretty decent.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/6-bears-head-coach-candidates-if-matt-nagy-fired-including-ryan-day

 I think the big thing to me is - I think I've gained an appreciation for experience, finding a coaching candidate who has seen the rodeo and understands and has showed a skillset to consistently evolve in the league (this doesn't mean old - just means someone who has demonstrated a real ability to be agile and evolve and continue to innovate/stay ahead of the league/respond well to adversity).  

When the Bears went with Nagy - I really couldn't argue the hire. Pace went the way the league was going and found a young, innovative, up and coming mind who had the personality to succeed as a head coach.  I think Pace got MANY of those traits right - however, what we didn't yet know was how said individual would handle adversity and be able to adapt. The biggest issue with Nagy has been his inability to make adjustments and continue to meld his offense so that it stays ahead of the league.  

Once the league got the book on what Nagy did - he basically just kept doing the same (but slightly different). He struggled to create a vision / style that went with the team because quite frankly, in his early coaching tenor he hadn't had to go through those challenges. Where he missed was he didn't have the right coaches around him (or trust in those coaches) nor did he have the right skillets (at least not yet) to lean in and pivot and make appropriate adjustments. 

With that in mind - I think of Joe Brady & Daboll as two people who have yet to show any ability to make real adjustments. Brady is so raw that we really don't know what he is at the NFL level and Daboll, as awesome as his work was with Josh Allen - we have seen the league make adjustments this year and have not YET seen him adjust back.  I think it will be interesting to see how he finishes the season - if he can work with the offense to make the necessary adjustments - HE IMMEDIATELY jumps to the top of my list. 

Other people who fit on my list are Greg Roman - who clearly has demonstrated an innovative way to consistently stay ahead of the league in his ability to optimize the run game, which I think is a really good asset when it comes to developing a young QB. He also has twice shown an ability to adapt offenses around raw, athletic QB's (Kap & Jackson).  I don't know whether he has the other traits - but he has also had a chance to work with two elite head coaches (Harbaugh's) which at the very least is a plus.  

I also am good looking at Dave Toub as well as other defensive coordinators that we think are seasoned and have right fit/personality (Leslie Frazier getting a 2nd chance wouldn't be terrible). The other spot I have no interest in is going to the college ranks.  From Ryan Day to Fitzpatrick (Northwestern) - I just see the risk as too great.  

A few other names that I don't know what to think of, but I could get on board with:

Byron Leftwich - Seemed to do a lot to blend the Arians style with Brady.  Liked what he did there - but its still Brady so I don't know what to really think of Leftwich.  

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC) - Like that he has more experience than Nagy and I still believe heavily in the Andy Reid tree/system.  The plus is there is consistency/similarities that come with Eric, but that is also a potential downside element.  

Todd Bowles (Bucs DC) - Not much I don't like with Bowles. He may be my favorite candidate.  He has had innovative, aggressive defenses everywhere he has been and in hindsight, his tenure with the Jets (given their personal & fact they are the Jets) was a lot better than he initially got credit for. I think he's learned a lot in his subsequent ventures as well and has clearly shown an ability to adapt and evolve in the league and has gotten to spend the past few years working with an offensive guru in Arians, so I think he's positioned to understand what it takes to find the right OC.  

Josh McDaniels - So this is hard for me to write. The way he did the Colts rubs me the wrong way and I can't forgive it and there is the Cutler fiasco. But this is a guy who has shown an innate ability to adjust his offense to reflect various personell and is doing an amazing job positioning a young QB to exceed.  His resume is fantastic - but the intangibles get in the way and as much as I love his performance and how good he can be, its the personality that is making me have an ugly face as I type this.  

Sean Payton - Obvious answer - but if he is interested - I'd give him a blank check to drive change

I’m glad we have moved on to discussing some names that could be possibilities to be the next head coach. Hub Arkush, in my opinion one of the most respected and insightful football reporters, said on the Score yesterday that Dan Quinn and Todd Bowles would be his top choices to be the next HC.

McDaniels would be the most intriguing option in terms of upside, but what he did to the Colts is something I couldn’t get past, especially since the Bears already had their own situation like that with Dave McGinnis, even if that was their own fault. Payton would need a blank check contract and a trade to pry him away from New Orleans but he would be a powerful head coach. We will have to see what happens to Mike Tomlin after Black Monday, but he would be an interesting fit. I want nothing to do with hiring a college coach, that game and role is a different beast from the NFL altogether and there isn’t a great track record of success in the NFL with college coaches making the leap.

I tend to like defensive head coaches and having an offensive coordinator call the plays even though Payton and Reid are masters of being both the CEO on the field and play callers. I still think that Pace is the larger problem than Nagy and would want a different type of front office than we are used to seeing, much like what we see with the Bulls, which is getting out of the old way and trying the modern NBA approach with AK at the helm and bringing in his own people as GM and HC. (The roster makeup in some ways is no damn good, some signings were bad ones and some of the draft day picks and trades are inexcusable, so it is time for a change.) One would think the Bears could get there, if they listened to advice from alumni, executives and got out of the way once the new leadership is hired.

Edited December 16, 2021 by The Beast

[Kyyle23]

I'm gonna be really pissed if they end up with McDaniels.  Sans Brady he is just a guy, just like every other assistant that has been under Belicheck.  He is not intriguing or interesting to me at all.  And when you add in his cold feet issues, forget that guy let him wait for Belicheck to retire 

[Kyyle23]

https://www.jaguars.com/news/a-statement-from-shad-khan

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm gonna be really pissed if they end up with McDaniels.  Sans Brady he is just a guy, just like every other assistant that has been under Belicheck.  He is not intriguing or interesting to me at all.  And when you add in his cold feet issues, forget that guy let him wait for Belicheck to retire 

But he’s done a great job with Mac Jones

[Kyyle23]

Just now, bmags said:

But he’s done a great job with Mac Jones

Bill has.  This is the exact same thing he did with Brady, great line great defense and don't allow your QB to make mistakes.  Honestly it's hard for me to credit anyone besides bill (and previously Brady)  in New England anymore because the results stay the same for the most part and the personnel changes around him.  one down year with Cam.
 

 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Bill has.  This is the exact same thing he did with Brady, great line great defense and don't allow your QB to make mistakes.  Honestly it's hard for me to credit anyone besides bill (and previously Brady)  in New England anymore because the results stay the same for the most part and the personnel changes around him.  one down year with Cam.
 

 

So that list includes Harbaugh and Carroll who went and won a Super Bowl respectively, and Kingsbury and OBrien who are likely and did take their teams to a playoff. How does that list compare percentage wise to any other type of NFL coach hire?

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

So that list includes Harbaugh and Carroll who went and won a Super Bowl respectively, and Kingsbury and OBrien who are likely and did take their teams to a playoff. How does that list compare percentage wise to any other type of NFL coach hire?

Well the average coach has a 50% win rate...

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

So that list includes Harbaugh and Carroll who went and won a Super Bowl respectively, and Kingsbury and OBrien who are likely and did take their teams to a playoff. How does that list compare percentage wise to any other type of NFL coach hire?

Jon Harbaugh won,  not Jim, but to your point he still made it. but he also sort of flamed out at the end.  Carroll is a fucking unicorn because he was a mediocre NFL head coach TWICE before USC, dominated at USC, and came back and dominated at the NFL level 

[Chisoxfn]

9 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Yet they gave Nagy this entire year. 

Huge difference. 

[Balta1701]

41 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Bill has.  This is the exact same thing he did with Brady, great line great defense and don't allow your QB to make mistakes.  Honestly it's hard for me to credit anyone besides bill (and previously Brady)  in New England anymore because the results stay the same for the most part and the personnel changes around him.  one down year with Cam.
 

 

Someone should point out that the down year with Cam also was a year where they had huge cap issues due to Brady leaving and a dead space associated with that, and had a whole bunch of COVID opt-outs, most in the league IIRC. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

So that list includes Harbaugh and Carroll who went and won a Super Bowl respectively, and Kingsbury and OBrien who are likely and did take their teams to a playoff. How does that list compare percentage wise to any other type of NFL coach hire?

I do think BOB is much more of a cautionary tale than described here as he definitely became an attitude issue and then totally dismantled the organization in the process. He won’t get credit for their 15 losses this year but that’s substantially on him. You guys think Pace is bad about giving away draft picks…

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I do think BOB is much more of a cautionary tale than described here as he definitely became an attitude issue and then totally dismantled the organization in the process. He won’t get credit for their 15 losses this year but that’s substantially on him. You guys think Pace is bad about giving away draft picks…

well yes he won the power struggle and that was bad when he became the president, gm, draft scout, coach. But the point is when Adam Schefter puts that list out and says "wow college coaches aren't good" it's compared to what? How does the offensive whiz kid QB coach tree look now? How are defensive coordinators? Retreat head coach has been the most successful, and then you could put a list up that goes:

Jon Gruden
Adam Gase
Jack Del Rio
Pat Shurmer
Hue Jackson
John Fox
Mike Mularkey
Lovie Smith
Jeff Fisher
Doug Marone
Gary Kubiak
Andy Reid
Pete Carroll
Ron Rivera

The amazing coaches tend to have been coaches before, but also were often successful before and time just got too long at the org and changes were made. 

So for any list it is "compared to what". NFL Head coaches are likely to fail, but almost certainly are going to fail in trash organizations like the bears have.

 

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

well yes he won the power struggle and that was bad when he became the president, gm, draft scout, coach. But the point is when Adam Schefter puts that list out and says "wow college coaches aren't good" it's compared to what? How does the offensive whiz kid QB coach tree look now? How are defensive coordinators? Retreat head coach has been the most successful, and then you could put a list up that goes:

Jon Gruden
Adam Gase
Jack Del Rio
Pat Shurmer
Hue Jackson
John Fox
Mike Mularkey
Lovie Smith
Jeff Fisher
Doug Marone
Gary Kubiak
Andy Reid
Pete Carroll
Ron Rivera

The amazing coaches tend to have been coaches before, but also were often successful before and time just got too long at the org and changes were made. 

So for any list it is "compared to what". NFL Head coaches are likely to fail, but almost certainly are going to fail in trash organizations like the bears have.

 

I might be wrong but I seem to remember a lot of the Schefter listed coaches were given a hell of a lot more personnel power than you would see with someone like Lafleur would ever get.  And then when they get that power they try to do things the way they did in college and you see a guy who has a really hard time relating to the players because they aren't used to having to relate to them at all, just tell them what to do. 
 

[Chisoxfn]

The college coaching list actually looked better than I expected. I do think Bowles might actually be my favorite, although if the Bills turn things around I would also remain intriguied with Daboll and I still can't ignore what Roman has done (but don't know his broader skillset).  I do think there is something to be set for a coach that was a great coordinator, who was okay as a HC (but largely limited by personell), who than goes back into the assistant ranks having gained valuable perspective, partnering with a quality HC - who than becomes really well positioned to make big strides. 

I think Bowles will get the players behind him - will drive an innovative & aggressive defense - and I think allow for the right type of offense to be built around a young QB. Quite frankly - the Bill Belicheck approach around Fields wouldn't be a bad thing next year. Really focus on limiting the times he is put in positions to failure - rather - ensure the 25 times you do drop him back - you are putting him in a position to excel the vast majority of those dropbacks and really maximizes that position to build on things.  

[Chisoxfn]

I also should note - I still love Rick Smith (who built Texans prior to Bill O'Brien gaining control after Smith retired due to health/family reasons (don't remember which) being involved in the front office (as GM or president - don't really care which).  

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I do think BOB is much more of a cautionary tale than described here as he definitely became an attitude issue and then totally dismantled the organization in the process. He won’t get credit for their 15 losses this year but that’s substantially on him. You guys think Pace is bad about giving away draft picks…

Yeah - I think BOB the front office exec was a disaster. BOB the head coach was pretty good.  In fact -he is an intriguing candidate I hadn't thought of, if he actually learned from his experiences. He clearly was an above average head coach (unless I'm forgetting some off the field or other incident with him)? His issues were entirely how he ran that front office.  

[Harry Chappas]

The problem with a defensive minded HC is that the OC is fired because the offense stinks or takes a HC job if the offense is decent.  See Adam Gase.

Best case scenario is to get an older OC that isn't looking to be a HC.  I thought the Bears had that In Fangio no the defensive side of the ball. 

 

 

 

[The Beast]

Is anyone against Jim Harbaugh coaching the Bears if he were to leave Michigan?

[Brian]

8 hours ago, The Beast said:

Is anyone against Jim Harbaugh coaching the Bears if he were to leave Michigan?

He’s not leaving so not worth the time to talk about.

[CentralChamps21]

10 hours ago, The Beast said:

Is anyone against Jim Harbaugh coaching the Bears if he were to leave Michigan?

Winning 17% of his games against his biggest rival? He'd fit right in with previous Bears coaches.

[southsider2k5]

Well at least they are tanking for a draft pick... Oh wait.