2021 NFL Season Thread

[CentralChamps21]

I'm not saying the Bears deserved at all to win, but it's really frustrating to see both of Minnesota's TD drives extended by bullshit personal foul calls. When the announcing crew and referee analyst, who are paid by networks who do huge business with the league, all agree the call is bad, that's really bad.

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Obviously last night was a slog, and every year of my life december january has just been waiting for the football slog to be over and staring at disbelief at the other teams that aren't just a slog and wondering how every year is the same...

however

they just had a week where all of their coordinators were unsure if they could be there, half their team disappeared. Not that surprised they looked terrible especially with fields and I didn't think he looked that bad.

It's amazing to me with the bears offensive staff under nagy just how unaware of their roster's capabilities they are. They are not a very talented group on offense anyway, as seen by the huge disparity in $ investment. But it feels like a yearly occurrence where someone like Cordarelle Patterson or Mike Davis leaves after being useless and suddenly finding relevance again doing exactly what they seem to be good at. Any roster craziness like last night is a death warrant for a game under nagy because they always seem completely unaware what their players are good at and clearly bad at teaching their players what they want them to be good at.

They have been remarkably good at power runs and just seem as a team completely disinterested in doing that. Just hitches. Lots and lots of hitches.

Defensively it was a nice game to see, a game without much of the higher priced talent that you ideally shed. Now, quinn is an insanely productive player and he was on the field. As was Hicks.

But at this point I'd expect the next FO to try to recoup and send out the higher priced defensive talent and provide some balance toward their QBs talent group. Quinn, Mack need to fetch high picks. Goldman can save $6M. 

It's rough but if they have two cost-controlled tackles and a rookie QB it should be doable with a good front office and staff. 

I was thinking about how these December/January parts of a lost season are common for the Bears under many coaches since I started watching in 1998. It’s truly sad that the best head coach I have seen during that time was Lovie Smith, who at least was consistent during that time. I was excited when Nagy got the job, thought the first year was fun and that if he could keep up that offense and the defense played like it had, he could be here for a while and they could get past the first or second round of the playoffs. 
 

The drop off was significant for a variety of reasons. Injuries, tape catching up to Nagy, players not performing like they had, roster crunches and bad investments were all part of it. Nagy will take the fall, but Pace deserves a lot of the blame too. If Nagy gets canned, I really don’t want Pace and Phillips to be around in the same capacity or at all. And I definitely want to see replacements for guys in the secondary (last night was only part of the body of work), for Allen Robinson, Jimmy Graham, Nick Foles, Akiem Hicks, other wideouts, Eddie Goldman and to try and get picks, Khalil Mack and Robert Quinn. They may not be able to trade Mack or Quinn, given their salaries, but they may be the only trade chips they have on the roster to get picks back. Then maybe they can build a more balanced team around Fields, Montgomery and Smith. And maybe they will have a GM and coach that have personnel that is a better fit for the team and scheme they have. After Nagy gets canned, hopefully some fans will raise the level of discussion and think of something more to say than the predictable two words you hear from crowds or on Twitter in this city.

[Kyyle23]

Beast, I don't think anyone here wants Pace to stay.  I'm not sure why you keep getting frustrated at people saying "fire Nagy" like that is the only thing that they want.  I feel confident saying all of the Bears fans in this thread want Pace and Nagy gone, and if Phillips can be on that bus out of town, him too.

[The Beast]

5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Beast, I don't think anyone here wants Pace to stay.  I'm not sure why you keep getting frustrated at people saying "fire Nagy" like that is the only thing that they want.  I feel confident saying all of the Bears fans in this thread want Pace and Nagy gone, and if Phillips can be on that bus out of town, him too.

It’s just the same old discussion week in, week out and I am not talking about here. It’s fans on Twitter, it’s the media, it’s the Score, it’s the same narrative everywhere. Like somehow firing Nagy will cure all ills and doing so before the end of the year will make things better. The level of discussion with people who just say Fire Nagy is so low, they need to be pressed on the other issues of the team to get more details on what they want to see happen than the head coach getting fired. I guess raising the level of discussion with fans is too much to ask though.

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Beast

[Kyyle23]

7 minutes ago, The Beast said:

It’s just the same old discussion week in, week out and I am not talking about here. It’s fans on Twitter, it’s the media, it’s the Score, it’s the same narrative everywhere. Like somehow during Nagy will cure all ills and doing so before the end of the year will make things better. The level of discussion with people who just say Fire Nagy is so low, they need to be pressed on the other issues of the team to get more details on what they want to see happen than the head coach getting fired. I guess raising the level of discussion with fans is too much to ask though.

It's literally the only thing to talk about man.  Sorry you are bored with it but I don't really see you doing anything but complaining about people saying "fire Nagy", when are you going to start this high level conversation about firing Pace and Phillips and replacing them?

firing Nagy is the start, that's what people want.  The first domino to fall.  He is a truly terrible offensive game caller, he is actively hurting the development of a guy that some feel Is the bears future.  It's not gonna cure the world, it's just the first step in trying to fix the problem.

 

[whitesoxfan99]

9 minutes ago, The Beast said:

It’s just the same old discussion week in, week out and I am not talking about here. It’s fans on Twitter, it’s the media, it’s the Score, it’s the same narrative everywhere. Like somehow during Nagy will cure all ills and doing so before the end of the year will make things better. The level of discussion with people who just say Fire Nagy is so low, they need to be pressed on the other issues of the team to get more details on what they want to see happen than the head coach getting fired. I guess raising the level of discussion with fans is too much to ask though.

It is also pointless to discuss personnel until Nagy and Pace are gone and you have someone new coming in.  Not much to discuss about this team, the personnel isn’t good and the coaching is bad.  
 

Fields has mostly looked awful but can’t draw any conclusions since we have 4 years of data that shows Nagy is a shit offensive coach.  Basically take out the first 8 or 9 games of year 1 and from the moment teams scouted what he was doing and made adjustments the Bears have been trash on offense unless they are facing a defense without a pulse. 

[CentralChamps21]

10 minutes ago, The Beast said:

It’s just the same old discussion week in, week out and I am not talking about here. It’s fans on Twitter, it’s the media, it’s the Score, it’s the same narrative everywhere. Like somehow during Nagy will cure all ills and doing so before the end of the year will make things better. The level of discussion with people who just say Fire Nagy is so low, they need to be pressed on the other issues of the team to get more details on what they want to see happen than the head coach getting fired. I guess raising the level of discussion with fans is too much to ask though.

I see the "Fire Nagy" crowd not as being ignorant of the failings of Pace/Phillips so much as not having faith in the McCaskeys that we will get anything more than the firing of Nagy.

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I see the "Fire Nagy" crowd not as being ignorant of the failings of Pace/Phillips so much as not having faith in the McCaskeys that we will get anything more than the firing of Nagy.

I'm fairly sure that Pace is gone too.  I will be stunned if he fails upward here, George is under a lot of fire about the last few years and I don't think he is gonna want to eat more shit by retaining Pace and giving him a better job

 

[StrangeSox]

 

 

19 minutes ago, The Beast said:

It’s just the same old discussion week in, week out and I am not talking about here. It’s fans on Twitter, it’s the media, it’s the Score, it’s the same narrative everywhere. Like somehow during Nagy will cure all ills and doing so before the end of the year will make things better. The level of discussion with people who just say Fire Nagy is so low, they need to be pressed on the other issues of the team to get more details on what they want to see happen than the head coach getting fired. I guess raising the level of discussion with fans is too much to ask though.

The Bears have been a mostly bad team for most of our lives with an occasional good season every 5-7 years. It's the same boring conversation because it's the same boring team that never has a good offense ever.

[bmags]

I would be surprised if there is a sub group of people that wants Pace to stay and Nagy gone.

They were bad for each other, but they also chose each other.

You can look at this roster and accurately say it doesn't matter who was coaching, they weren't going to the playoffs. They went into the season in a passing league with one good cornerback, and just handed the position to a 2nd year guy who was hapless, and backed up by players even more hapless. They handed the C position during a year where a rookie would play to a 2nd year undrafted free agent who, while smart, is overmatched on every play physically. Their receiver depth is awful, inside linebacker depth was both large and terrible.

But you can look at this roster and see a personnel group who was constantly chasing positions and players the head coach said he prioritized that he never knew what to do with. With a group of established, star defense, the limited cap left went to grabbing gadget players and tight ends the coach never seemed to get the most out of. He said he wanted zone run blockers, was terrible at it, and it turns out he had good power run blockers, and doesn't run with them.

He asked for a pass catching backup running back and pace brings him mike davis. He looks awful and they cut him before the seasons over. The next year he goes to carolina and does a credible Christian McCaffrey impression in his absence. He wants more versatility and they bring him Cordarelle patterson. He's lost in the run game as all of our RBs were prior to Lazer Bears this year, and he goes on to be one of the most productive offensive players in the league in ATL in the exact role Nagy wanted. I just need to say the position "tight end" and we all know what I'm talking about. He wants speed speed speed so they grab the bargain bin speedy receivers that are left like Breshad Perriman, only for him to never see the field but is capable of being an immediate fill in for Tampa Bay.

They chose each other, trusted each other and that's the reason we are all miserable.

[Harry Chappas]

15 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

 

 

The Bears have been a mostly bad team for most of our lives with an occasional good season every 5-7 years. It's the same boring conversation because it's the same boring team that never has a good offense ever.

The Lovie Smith era was pretty good.  Maybe I am misremembering as it has been horrific since he was fired.  It is amazing he was fired after a 10-6 season and this is what we are getting now.

The game was lost due to the terrible penalties extending drives.  That was one of the worst officiated games I'd seen.  The Bears two personal fouls on 3rd down plays were amazingly bad.  Then Minnesota does the same thing the Bears did and Jenkins gets the penalty.  Ifedi confronting Jenkins on that the way he did was bad as well.

I felt like the Bears were waiting for the other shoe to drop on their defense the whole game and it did not. 

Nagy, Pace, Phillips and George the ticket manager all need to go.  George McCaskey has no ability to run a football team yet here we are.

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

33 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The Lovie Smith era was pretty good.  Maybe I am misremembering as it has been horrific since he was fired.  It is amazing he was fired after a 10-6 season and this is what we are getting now.

The game was lost due to the terrible penalties extending drives.  That was one of the worst officiated games I'd seen.  The Bears two personal fouls on 3rd down plays were amazingly bad.  Then Minnesota does the same thing the Bears did and Jenkins gets the penalty.  Ifedi confronting Jenkins on that the way he did was bad as well.

I felt like the Bears were waiting for the other shoe to drop on their defense the whole game and it did not. 

Nagy, Pace, Phillips and George the ticket manager all need to go.  George McCaskey has no ability to run a football team yet here we are.

 

 

Outside of 2005-06 Lovie was a mediocre coach. He got fired because he got numerous hires at OC and all of them sucked. 

Angelo couldn't draft offense either. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[MexSoxFan#1]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Beast, I don't think anyone here wants Pace to stay.  I'm not sure why you keep getting frustrated at people saying "fire Nagy" like that is the only thing that they want.  I feel confident saying all of the Bears fans in this thread want Pace and Nagy gone, and if Phillips can be on that bus out of town, him too.

Not only those 3 bums, the McCaskeys should sell the team. It's clear they are inept at hiring football people.

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Not only those 3 bums, the McCaskeys should sell the team. It's clear they are inept at hiring football people.

I'm never gonna say anything about that because that is an actual pipe dream.  No billionaire ownership will ever be like "I'm selling because fans don't like me" 

[MexSoxFan#1]

10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm never gonna say anything about that because that is an actual pipe dream.  No billionaire ownership will ever be like "I'm selling because fans don't like me" 

I know that, just dreaming out loud. Papa Bear has to be turning over in his grave at the ineptitude of his spawn 

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

I know that, just dreaming out loud. Papa Bear has to be turning over in his grave at the ineptitude of his spawn 

I'm just gonna keep on hoping that one of those spawn will trip into a good Front office 

[Harry Chappas]

35 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm never gonna say anything about that because that is an actual pipe dream.  No billionaire ownership will ever be like "I'm selling because fans don't like me" 

They do not need to sell the team.  They just need a create a structure that can win games. 

A McCaskey does not need to be the CEO, hell let Phillips be the CEO and hire an actual football guy to be the President.  Do that I do not mind letting Pace hang around under the new President.

[Texsox]

I agree that a fleet of moving trucks should be arriving at Halas Hall. 

But I'm also starting to believe that at any given point in time there are only half a dozen executives and head coaches in each sport that have it figured out and can sustain some success. The other seventy five percent are going to fail every year. 

It's just not as easy as it looks from the outside.

And seriously, how can the Bears go fifty years without a top five quarterback.

[The Beast]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's literally the only thing to talk about man.  Sorry you are bored with it but I don't really see you doing anything but complaining about people saying "fire Nagy", when are you going to start this high level conversation about firing Pace and Phillips and replacing them?

firing Nagy is the start, that's what people want.  The first domino to fall.  He is a truly terrible offensive game caller, he is actively hurting the development of a guy that some feel Is the bears future.  It's not gonna cure the world, it's just the first step in trying to fix the problem.

 

It isn’t the only thing to talk about, Brad Biggs wrote more about the return on the highly paid players this year and the salary cap numbers in 2022 which was fairly interesting. He talked about the possibilities of who would stay or go and what he thinks will happen. 

I haven’t started the conversation about firing Pace and moving Phillips because it has been discussed here on other pages. Names have also been thrown out for GM and aside from Michael Lombardi I am not aware of any president types like the Bulls found in AK and the Cubs found in Epstein. So I would rather discuss Pace’s replacement  since I know some GM names. And since Nagy is probably getting canned I would rather look ahead than dissect the tape from the season and relitigate it over and over. Like I said, at least here you have actual conversation whereas on social media and with some media types they can’t get past “Fire Nagy” talk.

4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I see the "Fire Nagy" crowd not as being ignorant of the failings of Pace/Phillips so much as not having faith in the McCaskeys that we will get anything more than the firing of Nagy.

You would hope that crowd would dissect more than Nagy’s body of work and look at the moves Pace made and do a deep dive there. I truly do hope they do know the failings of Pace and Phillips.

4 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

 

The Bears have been a mostly bad team for most of our lives with an occasional good season every 5-7 years. It's the same boring conversation because it's the same boring team that never has a good offense ever.

Amen. The bitching about the offense, the quarterback and the coach. Rinse and repeat. 

[scs787]

Is Jeffrey Bezos a pipe dream? It's been reported he's wanted to own an NFL team for quite awhile. 

 

Does having an owner with the 2nd most money in the world really make that big a difference in a league with a salary cap? I mean, sure, they could move to Arlington and he could make an out of this world stadium, but does that help the product on the field? Perhaps it can lure players over? Can owners pay for non salary type things such as like paying for a players vacation or something like that? 

 

I'm sure the money can lure in whatever front office people they want.

[Dick Allen]

Bears have 4 playoff victories the last 30 seasons. The only teams with less are Washington with 3 and Cincinnati and Detroit with 0.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Dick Allen

[Texsox]

1980s and 1990s we're the golden age of Chicago sports. Too bad most of y'all weren't born. 

[CentralChamps21]

22 minutes ago, Texsox said:

1980s and 1990s we're the golden age of Chicago sports. Too bad most of y'all weren't born. 

From 2005-2016, there were 3 Stanley Cup wins, 2 World Series wins, and one Super Bowl appearance. Not too bad.

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, Texsox said:

I agree that a fleet of moving trucks should be arriving at Halas Hall. 

But I'm also starting to believe that at any given point in time there are only half a dozen executives and head coaches in each sport that have it figured out and can sustain some success. The other seventy five percent are going to fail every year. 

It's just not as easy as it looks from the outside.

And seriously, how can the Bears go fifty years without a top five quarterback.

The NFL thread is an interesting place for this take, as the NFL is a league where all the time we see teams come out of seemingly no where to make the playoffs and even win championships.

Philadelphia won a super bowl. They have since replaced their coach and QB. Were their executives a failure? Atlanta was basically 1 play from winning a Super Bowl, since then they've fired their coach and struggled. Are their execs failures? Denver lost a super bowl with an elite offense then won the next one with an elite defense, but they've fallen apart since then, did Elway get stupider? Can they be regular failures and still put together teams that good? 

I went back through the last 13 super bowls (26 teams) and found that it looks like 17 different teams have made an appearance in that time frame. Aside from New England/Brady being a cheat code/actually smarter and better than everyone else, it instead seems to me that there are a pool of about 2/3 of the teams in the NFL that are ok, that could genuinely compete in a normal year, sometimes those teams take a step back to rebuild or find a new QB, but then they're back a few years later and eventually have a big enough season to make a Super Bowl.

Then, there's about 1/3 of the league that is regularly bad - Jacksonville, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Las Vegas, the Jets, the Washingtonians, I'm sure you could add a few others. Those teams make the playoffs like once every 5 or 6 years, and are constantly changing coaches, failing on high draft picks, etc. For those teams, it genuinely starts with ownership - culture issues like DC or Jacksonville, consistently bad hires like Cleveland and Detroit.

[Texsox]

I think you proved my point. 17 different teams out of 26. Not a lot of sustained, year after year success, for most teams.