2021 NFL Season Thread

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

IIRC didn't Cam Newton and Vince Young have pretty good rookie years? 

It really seems like years three and four are the pivotal years. 

Cam Newton was very good for a 5 year stretch. His body couldn't hold up. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

You are completely ignoring the list I gave you. And Wilson was not well above average. Newton won an mvp but he was not a special or above average passer early in his career. And Rodgers and Mahomes were 3rd and 2nd year players. 

Newton threw for 4k yds as a rookie. 

[Texsox]

https://www.sportscasting.com/14-quarterbacks-who-looked-elite-during-their-first-starting-seasons/

Doing a little research. 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

You are completely ignoring the list I gave you. And Wilson was not well above average. Newton won an mvp but he was not a special or above average passer early in his career. And Rodgers and Mahomes were 3rd and 2nd year players. 

Wilson started 16 games as a rookie, completed 64.9% of his passes and had a 26/10 TD/INT. That's above average. 

I'm still waiting for a second example of a QB who didn't look good right away and became good since Drew Brees. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Wilson started 16 games as a rookie, completed 64.9% of his passes and had a 26/10 TD/INT. That's above average. 

Fair point on Wilson. But I still go back to their are plenty who were meh or not that good but who flashed (key distinction) who than got better. Fields will likely suck…but not because of his not being above average as a rookie but because the odds are against him and any young qb. He has tools and flashed it qualities…he has also flashed reasons to be concerned. 
 

But his qb rating in year one is right around many young qbs were who became good early in their career. I said qb rating not qbr. His qbr sucks largely because of his fumbles…which are a concern but something that can be easily fixed with better awareness and more experience plus better approach for how he handles the ball. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Fair point on Wilson. But I still go back to their are plenty who were meh or not that good but who flashed (key distinction) who than got better. Fields will likely suck…but not because of his not being above average as a rookie but because the odds are against him and any young qb. He has tools and flashed it qualities…he has also flashed reasons to be concerned. 
 

But his qb rating in year one is right around many young qbs were who became good early in their career. I said qb rating not qbr. His qbr sucks largely because of his fumbles…which are a concern but something that can be easily fixed with better awareness and more experience plus better approach for how he handles the ball. 

Recent years. Mahomes. Watson. Burrow. Herbert. Jackson. Murray. 

My point is that the great ones are showing themselves instantly now. 
 

If Fields is Carson Wentz are you happy? 

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Recent years. Mahomes. Watson. Burrow. Herbert. Jackson. Murray. 

My point is that the great ones are showing themselves instantly now. 
 

If Fields is Carson Wentz are you happy? 

No they aren’t. I don’t know if half of your list are great ones or not. Carson Wentz was better than some of them out of the gate and he is above average now but not elite. Mahomes is the goat - Herbert looks legit. Jackson is special due to his legs…Murray was system guy who got better every year (but had no adjustment cause they set it up perfectly…smart coaching vs idiot stick Nagy). 
 

Wilson, Lawrence stink right now. Doesn’t mean they will stink. Fields had been better than both of them. Mac was put in best spot (elite and smart coaching). 
 

I don’t know what Fields would be but he can be great…he can be a turd…he might just be okay…but all of those are still very plausible outcomes vs the asinine box you are putting on him. 

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

No they aren’t. I don’t know if half of your list are great ones or not. Carson Wentz was better than some of them out of the gate and he is above average now but not elite. Mahomes is the goat - Herbert looks legit. Jackson is special due to his legs…Murray was system guy who got better every year (but had no adjustment cause they set it up perfectly…smart coaching vs idiot stick Nagy). 
 

Wilson, Lawrence stink right now. Doesn’t mean they will stink. Fields had been better than both of them. Mac was put in best spot (elite and smart coaching). 
 

I don’t know what Fields would be but he can be great…he can be a turd…he might just be okay…but all of those are still very plausible outcomes vs the asinine box you are putting on him. 

Why do you keep ignoring Joe Burrow?

Based on the last 18 years or so of NFL football, it's likely that Lawrence, Wilson and Fields will continue to be terrible. 

Obviously Trey Lance hasn't been on the field much so the jury is out on him. 

Mac Jones is having late season problems so who knows about him. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Stinky Stanky]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Lovie was an okay/average coach by league standards. Evaluating Lovie(and Cutler btw) against other Bears coaches/QBs makes them seem better than they were. Evaluate players and coaches by how they compare to their peers. Cutler was an average to slightly below average QB and Lovie was an average to slightly below average coach. 

Lovie was nothing without Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman

Grain or two of truth among the chaff right there.  Could it be that the players they have to work with is making all those head coaches look bad to mediocre?

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

They are 9-6, so using your previous post, mediocre. Lovie got fired after going 10-6. That didn't make the playoffs, so, again, using your standard, the NFC must have been stacked with great teams that year if 10-6 doesn't get you to the postseason.

9-6 is far enough higher than the median to qualify as better than mediocre.  But I get what you're saying.

[Balta1701]

 Someone just hire Bieniemy already.

[Texsox]

The Bears should wait and have the pick of New Year leftovers. 

Think any teams are waiting for Nagy to become available?

[SoxAce]

Nooooooo. RIP.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Texsox said:

The Bears should wait and have the pick of New Year leftovers. 

Think any teams are waiting for Nagy to become available?

As offensive coordinator? Sure.

[hi8is]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

No my post is saying that he is just king shit of poop mountain ( @hi8is approval pending)

High phrase given for such tasteful and creative useage.

[Texsox]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As offensive coordinator? Sure.

I'm trying to decide if you are serious. 

[Chisoxfn]

Rip Madden. A total legend and one of the voices of my personal journey into NFL fandom. I always hoped he would do an annual turkey game broadcast just for old times. 

[Texsox]

8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Rip Madden. A total legend and one of the voices of my personal journey into NFL fandom. I always hoped he would do an annual turkey game broadcast just for old times. 

He had so much fun announcing, and never seemed to take himself seriously. People forgot what a great coach he was.

[The Beast]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:39 PM, southsideirish71 said:

No offense, John Schoop was more imaginative than Nagy is.  Hey look they are lining up in the wildcat for the 90th time this season.  The defensive sure looks confused there.  I wonder what wacky draw play is going to be called here.  Hey look, let's shift 20 times and get called for illegal motion over and over.  Hey, I know it's not working, but it's shifty.    

Lol John Schoop? You’ve got to be joking. Remember the screens on third down? I hate the wild cat, shifting and moving Montgomery from the side to the backfield too but Nagy is much better than John Schoop.

23 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don’t know how to get their beast…many schemes work but what I do know is the current one has stunk every single season and not just stunk it has been putrid. I don’t think they had the best players but they had enough to put up way better than the stats Kyyle showed. 
 

Personally I want a run dominant attack that leverages play action and designed runs for Fields while allowing him to make plays without asking too much on him yet. I’d like a mix of speed and size at the skill position and a good te. 
 

More than anything I want a good oline cause that makes everything better. I think they need a new center and I probably wait a year on tackle…although I am okay if they see a tackle they like or free agent by all means just do it. 
 

Than look to make defense younger but I actually want a defense coach. Frazier is fine but I want the Bucs DC. He is a real good coach and fine leader of men. 
 

Payton is my top choice if somehow it is possible. I would probably also do Harbaugh. After that I think I hope Roman is available as an oc and I hire Frazier or Bucs DC as my head coach with Roman as the OC. 

I would have sat Fields for most of this year and let Dalton and Foles play so he could sit and learn. He got rushed into starting even though I liked the way they brought him in the first few games.
 

I would also like the same offense you describe and don’t understand why they don’t do that. I watched the Dolphins last night and wished that the Bears would run plays like what they ran, they made it look easy. 

Agreed on offensive line and considering hiring Bowles who would then bring in a coordinator. 

23 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Dabol, if Bills continue to bounce back on offense is also a very acceptable HC option. 

Agreed.

7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Also, going back to the Cutler trade, think about how many 1st rounders the Bears have traded over the last decade. 

2009, 2010, 2019, 2020, 2022. That's a lot of talent they gave up for basically nothing. 

Pace dealing high picks and missing is one of the reasons why I can’t stand him. It’s one of the reasons why I didn’t like trading up to get Fields since I thought they would be better off getting a lineman in the first round and a quarterback in a later round, then bring in a veteran/give Foles a shot in 2022.

8 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

One good sign the Bears haven't fired Nagy yet even if it means perhaps falling behind the Jacksonville pursuit, if not eventually a few others, is if they are keeping Pace in his current role, there is no reason not to fire Nagy now and get moving on the future. But if Pace isn't going to be here, it makes no sense other than showing the fans he is unacceptable to fire him now if the guy who is hiring the new coach isn't in the building.  Now you could argue there is no reason that person isn't in the building.

I don’t think they are falling behind because a handful of teams fired their coaches. It won’t hurt them to lose out on two hires as it will hurt them with the interview research they will miss out on upfront…unless George is already making calls. I hope you are right about Pace.

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

I wonder if college quarterbacks pray they don't get drafted by the Bears. 

I can think of one who didn’t appear to be thrilled about getting drafted by them on Draft Day. 

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

 Someone just hire Bieniemy already.

I wouldn’t be opposed to Bieniemy, given his experience. I just hope he’s the right hire. I bet the Jags end up with Leftwich if they are allowed to interview him.

4 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Nooooooo. RIP.

Fox just did a special on him I believe, or promoted a special someone else made.

[Balta1701]

 

[bmags]

Love the disconnect here. They are going to hire a new GM and Coach now but know that their current President is retiring in a year ??

Nit saying it’s definitely true but If that is what was told to me Id point out that that is already a disaster.

”Hi new president, here is your GM and Coach we just hired, so you can’t do anything until they fail”

[Chisoxfn]

53 minutes ago, bmags said:

Love the disconnect here. They are going to hire a new GM and Coach now but know that their current President is retiring in a year ??

Nit saying it’s definitely true but If that is what was told to me Id point out that that is already a disaster.

”Hi new president, here is your GM and Coach we just hired, so you can’t do anything until they fail”

That would imply Pace is around for longer - or that is how I would read into it - otherwise you are right - it would be really short sited - unless they plan on making a change on football side now knowing a new Ted will take over in 1-2 years on the non football side or in a role that reports to the main president who was hired now (with ted still remaining on to finalize stadium deal and maybe help groom the president on the non football stuff until he retires). 
 

The above would kind of make sense. 

[bmags]

33 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

That would imply Pace is around for longer - or that is how I would read into it - otherwise you are right - it would be really short sited - unless they plan on making a change on football side now knowing a new Ted will take over in 1-2 years on the non football side. 

So while waiting for my pizza I went through more of his site/tweets and I think his belief is the bears are going to give a lot of power to their next coach and so this matters less as the coach will remake the org.

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

So while waiting for my pizza I went through more of his site/tweets and I think his belief is the bears are going to give a lot of power to their next coach and so this matters less as the coach will remake the org.

So he is assuming they are going for a pretty big name guy. I am okay if they plan on landing Pete Caroll or Harbaugh or Payton and giving them control. Not that I see any way Payton happens. 

[Texsox]

I don't see a big name coming in. But I'd like to be wrong.