2021 NFL Season Thread

[bmags]

How many 1 year rebuilds have the eagles done? Pace's 3 year rebuild was unnecessary, but and a reason why it fell apart so quickly.

[Jack Parkman]

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Chisoxfn]

Did the Bears end up interviewing Dennis Allen today (I didn't know with the Saints news + Bears hiring a GM whether that held). More curious, if nothing else.  

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Definitely, we'll see.

I will admit though - I haven't seen this or tweets about this anywhere.  

[Chisoxfn]

I did see a report that Harbaugh was looking for 10yrs 100M (so Gruden(esque).  That is too much to give Jim, imo.  

[Texsox]

10 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I did see a report that Harbaugh was looking for 10yrs 100M (so Gruden(esque).  That is too much to give Jim, imo.  

Everyone has a price. That number tells me he enjoys his current situation but knows what the "offer he couldn't refuse" is.  

I wonder if this was 2021 if he could have been hired for 5/$50

[maloney.adam]

Comes down to who can assemble the better staff.

Edited January 26, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Chisoxfn]

29 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Comes down to who can assemble the better staff.

I love a quote i heard from Quinn - where his biggest lesson learn from his last tenor at HC is being really smart about what you put on your plate. You can only do so much as the HC so essentially you have to pick and choose those things and than empower the right people for the rest.  Made a ton of sense and reaked of a high degree of maturity.  He just seems like such a strong individual / high character person with charism whom players love etc.  There are concerns I have with him - but he seems like the type of person who really could be that much better in his 2nd tenure (vs. his first).  

I honestly still think we might say the same thing about Nagy 10 years from now (but he needs to go really learn to be a full time OC first).  

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I did see a report that Harbaugh was looking for 10yrs 100M (so Gruden(esque).  That is too much to give Jim, imo.  

I'm all for it.  It's not on the cap, it's on ownership.  Spend the money

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm all for it.  It's not on the cap, it's on ownership.  Spend the money

I here you there - but if I'm throwing out that kind of money - I'm calling Payton up with that offer (or better).  I just think 10 yrs is a long time for a HC like Harbaugh. I would have down 5/yr 50M though. Or even 6yr 60 or 65M. But to your point - if the Bears went 10/100 - I would jump for joy anyway cause it ain't my money and it doesn't impact the cap.  

[Chicago White Sox]

Really starting to seem like the following HCs will fall into place:

• CHI: Quinn
• NYG: Daboll
• JAX: Leftwich
• DEN: Hackett

If we do go with Quinn, hopefully it happens soon, because there will be serious demand for offensive coordinators.

[Chisoxfn]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Really starting to seem like the following HCs will fall into place:

• CHI: Quinn
• NYG: Daboll
• JAX: Leftwich
• DEN: Hackett

If we do go with Quinn, hopefully it happens soon, because there will be serious demand for offensive coordinators.

If that is how it happens - doesn't Quinn's OC role look most promising relatively speaking). The 3 other openings are all offensive specialists so you presume if you take that role you may or may not run play calling etc.  If you take Quinn's job you are being directed with responsibility around the development of the QB and design of the offense (obviously in alignment with Quinn's broader vision).  

[southsider2k5]

When did Aaron Rogers turn into a little b****?

 

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

If that is how it happens - doesn't Quinn's OC role look most promising relatively speaking). The 3 other openings are all offensive specialists so you presume if you take that role you may or may not run play calling etc.  If you take Quinn's job you are being directed with responsibility around the development of the QB and design of the offense (obviously in alignment with Quinn's broader vision).  

Probably worded it poorly, but really meant that the Bills, Packers, & Bucs will be looking for OCs as well.  And fully agree that being the head offensive coach would be a huge plus for us, but are guys going to be willing to pass up on opportunities while they wait to see where Quinn lands?  The good news is it sounds like if he’s the guy a decision will probably be made in the next couple days and he can quickly build his staff.  Just with nine openings there is going to be a lot of turnover and you don’t want to be the last one the party.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I love a quote i heard from Quinn - where his biggest lesson learn from his last tenor at HC is being really smart about what you put on your plate. You can only do so much as the HC so essentially you have to pick and choose those things and than empower the right people for the rest.  Made a ton of sense and reaked of a high degree of maturity.  He just seems like such a strong individual / high character person with charism whom players love etc.  There are concerns I have with him - but he seems like the type of person who really could be that much better in his 2nd tenure (vs. his first).  

I honestly still think we might say the same thing about Nagy 10 years from now (but he needs to go really learn to be a full time OC first).  

Jason, this is basically my exact line of thinking of when it comes to the GM/President. 

As I said earlier, I don’t know how Poles will do. Legit none of us do. So much of it comes down to luck. If the Bears lucked into Mahomes instead of Mitch, Pace is considered one of the best GM’s in football, this franchise is in a totally different spot. All because of one decision. 

Anyway, they were discussing on the radio today about what a lot of savvy GM’s will talk about is how when you enter the job, you don’t realize how many fires you have to put out, and you need someone (or multiple people) to be your firefighters so you can focus on the bigger picture. A strong FO is so vital. What worries me about the structure with the Bears (among other things) is you’re hiring a first time GM and he’s “the guy.” What happens when Poles needs a sounding board? Who are the voices in the room that are going to say “Ryan, this isn’t how you should do things, let’s think about it this way?” If you bring in a Rick Smith per say, THEN hire Poles…now you have a veteran presence who has served at the top of an organization before, and there can be more of a dialog internally. I just HATE the idea that Poles is reporting directly to George. That’s his sounding board? I don’t care what George says about being “just a fan..” if the GM is reporting to George, then George is involved in football decisions. And it just bothers me. 
 

One of these days the Bears are going to luck into getting this right. Talent will win out and overcome their family affairs…but they just put themselves behind the 8 ball way too much. 

[Tony]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

When did Aaron Rogers turn into a little b****?

 

He really, really is a turd. Josh Allen was quoted saying: 

“I think everybody should have that choice to do it or not to do it,” Allen continued. “You get in this tricky situation now where if you do mandate that, that’s kind of going against what our constitution says and the freedom to kind of express yourself one way or the other. I think we’re in a time where that’s getting a lot harder to do. Everybody should have that choice."

No one really knows if he’s vaxxed or not at this point (as far as I’ve read)

And everyone was rooting for Allen last weekend, as they should because he’s incredibly fun to watch, seems like a good overall guy. Yes, I disagree with him 100% on his comments…but that really doesn’t change much for me. Aaron Rodgers is just a giant asshole. 

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Jason, this is basically my exact line of thinking of when it comes to the GM/President. 

As I said earlier, I don’t know how Poles will do. Legit none of us do. So much of it comes down to luck. If the Bears lucked into Mahomes instead of Mitch, Pace is considered one of the best GM’s in football, this franchise is in a totally different spot. All because of one decision. 

Anyway, they were discussing on the radio today about what a lot of savvy GM’s will talk about is how when you enter the job, you don’t realize how many fires you have to put out, and you need someone (or multiple people) to be your firefighters so you can focus on the bigger picture. A strong FO is so vital. What worries me about the structure with the Bears (among other things) is you’re hiring a first time GM and he’s “the guy.” What happens when Poles needs a sounding board? Who are the voices in the room that are going to say “Ryan, this isn’t how you should do things, let’s think about it this way?” If you bring in a Rick Smith per say, THEN hire Poles…now you have a veteran presence who has served at the top of an organization before, and there can be more of a dialog internally. I just HATE the idea that Poles is reporting directly to George. That’s his sounding board? I don’t care what George says about being “just a fan..” if the GM is reporting to George, then George is involved in football decisions. And it just bothers me. 
 

One of these days the Bears are going to luck into getting this right. Talent will win out and overcome their family affairs…but they just put themselves behind the 8 ball way too much. 

I agree with everything you say there - in this case - Poles is going to have to built out a strong team underneath him that he can lean on and have those conversations with. I presume some of them exist in the building and others will get hired from outside. My hope and why I was happy with Polians involved, in particular fact that he got engaged during the season, is he got to see what the Bears do and don't do, which likely put added credence behind statements made by various GM's and if anything further paved the way to Poles getting more of that clarity. 

Still - I love the reports about Khan, but even that seems so strange. If that was the case - just go hire him now, have him and Phillips on payroll...start by having Khan focus on the right football guy (Poles) and building out the personell side and strengthening that...in the meantime Phillips will run all things stadium and slowly start to transition that side to Khan at the right times.  

That said - regardless of titles - if Pole is top guy - great - but the best orgs surround themselves with lots of very smart people - people who will confidently bring up innovative/different viewpoints yet be able to respectfully collaborate, etc.  I hate using the word collaborate - but if you work in a silo too much - you might just be that smart that it works - but more likely you will lose in the long run (especially with as many bright people that are out there - whether enhancing analytical capabilities to give you that small % advantage - but you got to push for every edge given how competitive the dynamic is.  

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

Jason, this is basically my exact line of thinking of when it comes to the GM/President. 

As I said earlier, I don’t know how Poles will do. Legit none of us do. So much of it comes down to luck. If the Bears lucked into Mahomes instead of Mitch, Pace is considered one of the best GM’s in football, this franchise is in a totally different spot. All because of one decision. 

Anyway, they were discussing on the radio today about what a lot of savvy GM’s will talk about is how when you enter the job, you don’t realize how many fires you have to put out, and you need someone (or multiple people) to be your firefighters so you can focus on the bigger picture. A strong FO is so vital. What worries me about the structure with the Bears (among other things) is you’re hiring a first time GM and he’s “the guy.” What happens when Poles needs a sounding board? Who are the voices in the room that are going to say “Ryan, this isn’t how you should do things, let’s think about it this way?” If you bring in a Rick Smith per say, THEN hire Poles…now you have a veteran presence who has served at the top of an organization before, and there can be more of a dialog internally. I just HATE the idea that Poles is reporting directly to George. That’s his sounding board? I don’t care what George says about being “just a fan..” if the GM is reporting to George, then George is involved in football decisions. And it just bothers me. 
 

One of these days the Bears are going to luck into getting this right. Talent will win out and overcome their family affairs…but they just put themselves behind the 8 ball way too much. 

What i really want to know is - did Poles have Daboll at the top of his list and if so - I think he should be on the first plan to Buffalo or wherever Daboll is to at least have one chance at trying to sell that man and connect on a partnership between Poles, Daboll, and obviously Justin Fields and the ability to make greatness happen in Chicago.  Boy would nothing excite me more than waking up at some point tomorrow finding out they had that sort of stealth meeting (I am also okay if he did the same thing with Sean Payton haha).  

[Tony]

27 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I agree with everything you say there - in this case - Poles is going to have to built out a strong team underneath him that he can lean on and have those conversations with. I presume some of them exist in the building and others will get hired from outside. My hope and why I was happy with Polians involved, in particular fact that he got engaged during the season, is he got to see what the Bears do and don't do, which likely put added credence behind statements made by various GM's and if anything further paved the way to Poles getting more of that clarity. 

Still - I love the reports about Khan, but even that seems so strange. If that was the case - just go hire him now, have him and Phillips on payroll...start by having Khan focus on the right football guy (Poles) and building out the personell side and strengthening that...in the meantime Phillips will run all things stadium and slowly start to transition that side to Khan at the right times.  

That said - regardless of titles - if Pole is top guy - great - but the best orgs surround themselves with lots of very smart people - people who will confidently bring up innovative/different viewpoints yet be able to respectfully collaborate, etc.  I hate using the word collaborate - but if you work in a silo too much - you might just be that smart that it works - but more likely you will lose in the long run (especially with as many bright people that are out there - whether enhancing analytical capabilities to give you that small % advantage - but you got to push for every edge given how competitive the dynamic is.  

Waddle brought up something today that I hadn't heard before but makes sense when you look back. During the tenure of Pace, he basically fired no one in the front office. When you look at this 7 year run the results were pretty mediocre....yet everyone by his side stuck around, no real changes were made behind the scenes. Waddle went on to say Pace really didn't like conflict and was a "yes man" type of leader, he liked having those guys around him. It's probably why no one had the balls to say "Um, why are you in love with a guy from North Carolina instead of the guy that just won the National Championship for Clemson? Don't you think we should at least give him a workout?" 

Ultimately no one is going to stand in the way of the decision maker in the room, it comes down to Pace (and now Poles) but you need those voices in the room to challenge you. 

[maloney.adam]

 

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, Tony said:

Waddle brought up something today that I hadn't heard before but makes sense when you look back. During the tenure of Pace, he basically fired no one in the front office. When you look at this 7 year run the results were pretty mediocre....yet everyone by his side stuck around, no real changes were made behind the scenes. Waddle went on to say Pace really didn't like conflict and was a "yes man" type of leader, he liked having those guys around him. It's probably why no one had the balls to say "Um, why are you in love with a guy from North Carolina instead of the guy that just won the National Championship for Clemson? Don't you think we should at least give him a workout?" 

Ultimately no one is going to stand in the way of the decision maker in the room, it comes down to Pace (and now Poles) but you need those voices in the room to challenge you. 

That’s just part of building a good team though. I’m sure Chris dodds doesn’t mind disagreeing with Ballard. 
 

Pretty much all GMs are first time GMs, and very few have this president role. You talk of this role like a mentor role, but I’d someone is above them as a soundboard that’s ultimately also the lead decision maker, which defangs the position.

Pace just wasn’t a very good GM. Hopefully this guy is.

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Also weird to me is this NYG search. Starting to feel like Daboll isn’t the shoe-in it seemed. And if Schoen doesn’t hire him that’s uh…interesting.

[Chisoxfn]

23 minutes ago, bmags said:

Also weird to me is this NYG search. Starting to feel like Daboll isn’t the shoe-in it seemed. And if Schoen doesn’t hire him that’s uh…interesting.

Or is Daboll waiting to at least find out whether he has a shot to work with Fields (or Lawrence for that matter). I'm bias and think highly of Fields - so I will caveat that  - but If I am Daboll I am smart enough to know that my best shot at having duration is having a QB. With the Bears I at least have an idea of what Fields upside / potential is. Sure, you didn't actually coach with him and you probably didn't scout him much coming out of college, but the league is small so you have an idea of what he can  be and just as importantly probably have at least decent intel on the type of competitor he is, whether he's coachable, what kind of work ethic does he have, etc.  

If I look at the Giants and now have a chance to look forward into the draft - how good do I feel about being able to land a QB with anywhere near Field(s) potential?  If I think Fields has the tools - do I really take my chances going to an org that isn't getting one of those guys this year and now I have to hope they can find someone in '23? Or can I go in and get a shot with the Bears knowing this wasn't my hand chosen guy, so if it doesn't work, I may get a 2nd crack at the nut (similar to Pace getting 2 cracks at the nut).  

I don't know - but I'd at least think about it if I were him (again - I think very highly of Fields raw physical skills). I recognize Fields has major flaws, flaws that might get in the way of him reaching his upside - but his physical tools are strong.  And Daboll is a guy who has already taken a raw, but physical toolsy QB and helped work with him to get him into that upper echelon.  

I also will note - it does feel like Bears have kept their view(s) very close to the vest (vs. some other franchises). No one had Poles as top dog in the fight up until basically they saw him getting picked up w/McCaskey.  So who is to say the media really knows what Poles/Bears are thinking here.  And if Daboll was at least intrigued enough for a first interview - if he got a shot - why not go for a 2nd interview.  

Note: Or Daboll thinks the above, but actually replace Fields with Trevor Lawrence.  

[Tony]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

That’s just part of building a good team though. I’m sure Chris dodds doesn’t mind disagreeing with Ballard. 
 

Pretty much all GMs are first time GMs, and very few have this president role. You talk of this role like a mentor role, but I’d someone is above them as a soundboard that’s ultimately also the lead decision maker, which defangs the position.

Pace just wasn’t a very good GM. Hopefully this guy is.

Brett Veach has someone like Andy Reid he can lean on as a football mind in KC. 

Les Sneed has been GM for over a decade now with the Rams. 

The Ravens installed Eric DeCosta as GM in 2019....but Ozzie Newsome still has an office down the hall and is there as a veteran presence in the room. 

My issue is with the last regime, you had Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy together, both never holding these titles, this was both their first go at it. They reported to Ted Phillips, a guy that has no business touching anything that relates to football. On top of it, unlike most sports owners, George really has no corporate background to speak of and has never ran a successful anything, let alone billion dollar company. He was simply handed this role by mom. 

I know you've been on this crusade lately that the Bears are being treated unfairly in the media and everyone is being too hard on them, but I'm not going to apologize for wanting and expecting more from the charter franchise in the NFL. 

[nitetrain8601]

Leftwich to Jax