The demise of the 2021 White Sox

[Capital G]

I suppose that the trade deadline moves didn't work out. But I liked them at the time so I'd blame the players not the front office. 

I have no problem with the handling of the players and IL stints. A season after the short one I'd rather they be rested.

[SonofaRoache]

43 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Yeah that was my point, Cease control issues still concern me to start a playoff game, but I agree with you that my hypothetical statement probably isn't accurate and PTATC has reminded me of Kopech's inning limit.  

Yep. He has to be integrated slowly. They could have kept him off the team to slowly come back and then pitch 5 inning games, but they needed him in the bullpen. 

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Marqhead said:

I think it’s fair to be both excited by the team’s second playoff appearance in two years and beginning of their competitive window and very disappointed and concerned about their recent performance over the last two months and how that projects into the playoffs. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. 

When you have to interest in being excited,  they are definitely mutually exclusive. 

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If anything, the injury gave them a reason to stretch him out and limit his appearances. If they were really contemplating it, the timing was perfect for them because it would take him 3-4 weeks to get ramped up and by then he'd be available for them late in the season as many had thought was the plan.

They limited his appearances and his innings. He's only recently gone even back to back.

[Marqhead]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When you have to interest in being excited,  they are definitely mutually exclusive. 

I disagree. There has been plenty of excitement amongst the disappointment. Nothing is lost, it’s just more precarious. 

[joejoesox]

30 minutes ago, Capital G said:

I suppose that the trade deadline moves didn't work out. But I liked them at the time so I'd blame the players not the front office. 

I have no problem with the handling of the players and IL stints. A season after the short one I'd rather they be rested.

imo you can't ignore how the majority of players the Sox acquire at deadlines and during the offseason end up coming here and performing well below their career numbers, it's been an issue for years and I'd chalk it up to the atmosphere and environment that is fostered, they aren't nearly as effective at creating a winning atmosphere like more professional clubs do (like STL, TB, BOS, even post scandal HOU).  

I would love to talk to guys like Melky Cabrera and ask him what was different about the Sox (training staff, coaching, preparation techniques, etc) compared to NYY

Maybe I'm way overthinking this but it just seems that way, guys come here and more often than not we are left scratching our heads about why they suck once the uniform changes

[SonofaRoache]

Well DK just called the team out again. At least he is right this time. 

[joejoesox]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Well DK just called the team out again. At least he is right this time. 

really? is there a video of this? I don't have access to NBC Sports Chi

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Well DK just called the team out again. At least he is right this time. 

Dallas Keuchel is the last guy in that clubhouse who should be calling out anyone.

He sure loves to do these things publicly though to make himself look good. 

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Marqhead said:

I disagree. There has been plenty of excitement amongst the disappointment. Nothing is lost, it’s just more precarious. 

For most people, yes, but not the one who started this thread.

[Marqhead]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For most people, yes, but not the one who started this thread.

Mine was just a general statement. Screw that guy. 

[PDXSOX]

Look, berate the OP all you want.  He's a little negative, yeah.  But the point is, the Sox need to start ramping up - the 'who cares' month of September is rapidly coming to an end.  And 'flipping a switch' isn't all that easy or what it's cracked up to be.  They are too lax, and verging on becoming complacent.  I, for one, won't be surprised if they're ousted pretty quickly, although I hope they find the extra gear to go farther than their first round.

In any case, they need to start ramping up to playoff mode any day now - it gets too easy to sluff it all off as 'not mattering'.  They need to get it together, and start showing up.

Hopefully they do - but with every passing day and a middling effort against crap teams, my aspirations for a big post-season diminish.  It's been too long since they actually seemed to consider that winning a game was worth the effort.

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Huh?

The Sox stopped stretching Kopech out because of a lower body muscle strain? Get outta here.

The Sox stopped stretching him out because they wanted him in the bullpen where they thought they were weak while they thought the rotation was fine and dandy. It was poor planning; both for this year and next.

Yeah what they’ve done with Kopech this year is terrible. All around. He have been in aaa til early to mid summer managing inning, working up endurance and getting control back. And he should have been starting games in the bigs since then. Now pwe won’t even get a full 2022 out of him in the rotation. Major fuckup, bur TLR wanted him in the pen and probably doesn’t care too much about what that means for the future. 

[ptatc]

30 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah what they’ve done with Kopech this year is terrible. All around. He have been in aaa til early to mid summer managing inning, working up endurance and getting control back. And he should have been starting games in the bigs since then. Now pwe won’t even get a full 2022 out of him in the rotation. Major fuckup, bur TLR wanted him in the pen and probably doesn’t care too much about what that means for the future. 

They would not have used that plan as even half a season of starting games would be far more than he was ready for. 

[Colome's Hat]

35 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah what they’ve done with Kopech this year is terrible. All around. He have been in aaa til early to mid summer managing inning, working up endurance and getting control back. And he should have been starting games in the bigs since then. Now pwe won’t even get a full 2022 out of him in the rotation. Major fuckup, bur TLR wanted him in the pen and probably doesn’t care too much about what that means for the future. 

Why won't they get a full 2022 out of Kopech?  What they are doing with Kopech is exactly what they did with Chris Sale minus the extra year as a reliever.  Look at Sale's 2011 innings pitched.  Kopech is going to get pretty close to what Sale did.  There is no reason Kopech can't go 180 innings next year

[TaylorStSox]

If you told me before the season the Sox would win 90 games and make the playoffs after losing Robert, Jimenez, Grandal and Madrigal for significant portions of the season, I'd be stoked. I'm still stoked.

[Greg Hibbard]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

If you told me before the season the Sox would win 90 games and make the playoffs after losing Robert, Jimenez, Grandal and Madrigal for significant portions of the season, I'd be stoked. I'm still stoked.

This. 

I sincerely don’t get what I’m seeing on this forum in some ways. At the beginning of the season, even before Eloy’s injury (but especially after), I seem to recall almost everyone pitting the white sox as close, but maybe still a year away from a potential World Series run. 

Then it seemed the goalposts and expectations moved in a flash here, after the Mercedes experience bought us a few wins, after the pitching carried us through some injuries/spotty hitting, after the early surprise returns by Robert and Jimenez, and especially after the mid season “go for it now” acquisitions the FO made. It got way more expectational here. It also became kind of an entitled environment. 

This is still a very young core at heart. They will be streaky. Jimenez will heat up, Robert will cool down. Vaughn is still finding his entire game. Even Moncada and Anderson still go through “young” stretches although they continue to mature before our eyes. Most of these guys are way younger than 27. 

if this team loosens up, they’ll have enough raw talent to make every game very interesting. I think they will… after they clinch.

This is just a pretty bad week. 

but also - IMO there aren’t 29 losers and 1 winner every baseball season, and I feel If the Sox take Houston deep into a series and they just beat us, we will be better next year and closer next year.  

 

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Or LaRussa said you can’t take a guy out of his bullpen.

 

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I believe back in November “LaRussa Kopech in the bullpen and he will not be overruled” was literally my example of the kind of thing that could go wrong when a manager is forced on a now-powerless GM.

 

Kopech will need to keep growing his hair until it's long enough to escape Tony's bullpen tower.

 

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

If you told me before the season the Sox would win 90 games and make the playoffs after losing Robert, Jimenez, Grandal and Madrigal for significant portions of the season, I'd be stoked. I'm still stoked.

Honestly, I think I’d be right where I’m at right now - “so the rest of the division was weaker than I thought, no one else even won 90 games so the Twins and Cleveland Baseball Club must have struggled, but the Sox weren’t all that great either. I’ll enjoy it but I’m going to be a bunch of baseball nerves when the playoffs approach because I’m never ready to be eliminated.”

[NO!!MARY!!!]

13 hours ago, chw42 said:

Imagine being a fan of a team, hoping the team sucks just so you can tell other fans of said team, "I TOLD YOU SO". 

The White Sox fan base seems to have quite a few of these. I can’t say if others do, as I don’t read postings of other fan bases. 

[hogan873]

This team was great when facing adversity - the lengthy losses of Eloy and Robert, Grandal being out for an extended period, Madrigal going down for the year.  Now, with Eloy, Robert, and Grandal back, the additions of Tepera, Hernandez, and Kimbrel (on paper, all good additions), the team is struggling.  That's quite frustrating.

But, even if they play okay for the rest of the season, they're going to win 90+ games and win the division handily.  That's something that many of us thought not likely, especially after losing Robert and Madrigal.  I'm not saying we should take it easy on these guys.  They need to get their shit together by the time the playoffs start.  If they go into the playoffs playing like they are now (lifeless, sloppy baseball), they will exit quickly.

I'll be more optimistic and believe they'll play good baseball come playoff time.  But if a quick exit happens, it'll be really easy to look back at the last 50 or so games of the season and say we saw it coming from miles away.

[NO!!MARY!!!]

12 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

I also predict the White Sox to win the WS - as I have all season. Reinsdorf/La Russa riding off into the sunset in the final parade car will be a story for the ages. 

 

12 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

*The 2006 Cardinals were 42-26 in mid-June. They went 41-53 the rest of the way to finish 83-79.

They won the World Series. 

*Our 2005 White Sox came within a hair of blowing a 15-game lead.

And won the World Series.

*The 2001 Mariners won 10 of 12 entering the postseason, finishing 116-46.

They went 4-6 in the playoffs.

*The 2008 Cubs went 98-64 and many thought were the best team in baseball.

They got blown out in 3 consecutive games by a mediocre 84-78 Dodgers team. 

—————————————-

There’s no rhyme or reason to what happens in the playoffs based off how the team finished the regular season.

Why, you two must be giddy-widdy fanboys! Boy, I can’t wait until the Astros sweep in the first round. I’m going to be the first to point at you and say HA HA! I rubbed it in when Eloy got hurt, when Robert got hurt and I’ll do the same when the season is over!! And I’m a lifelong Sox fan so don’t you dare question me on this! 

[NO!!MARY!!!]

6 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

This. 

I sincerely don’t get what I’m seeing on this forum in some ways. At the beginning of the season, even before Eloy’s injury (but especially after), I seem to recall almost everyone pitting the white sox as close, but maybe still a year away from a potential World Series run. 

Then it seemed the goalposts and expectations moved in a flash here, after the Mercedes experience bought us a few wins, after the pitching carried us through some injuries/spotty hitting, after the early surprise returns by Robert and Jimenez, and especially after the mid season “go for it now” acquisitions the FO made. It got way more expectational here. It also became kind of an entitled environment. 

This is still a very young core at heart. They will be streaky. Jimenez will heat up, Robert will cool down. Vaughn is still finding his entire game. Even Moncada and Anderson still go through “young” stretches although they continue to mature before our eyes. Most of these guys are way younger than 27. 

if this team loosens up, they’ll have enough raw talent to make every game very interesting. I think they will… after they clinch.

This is just a pretty bad week. 

but also - IMO there aren’t 29 losers and 1 winner every baseball season, and I feel If the Sox take Houston deep into a series and they just beat us, we will be better next year and closer next year.  

 

NO!!!! If they don’t go 11-0 in the postseason and win every game by blowout it’s failure! Failure! Failure! 

[NWINFan]

12 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

*The 2006 Cardinals were 42-26 in mid-June. They went 41-53 the rest of the way to finish 83-79.

They won the World Series. 

*Our 2005 White Sox came within a hair of blowing a 15-game lead.

And won the World Series.

*The 2001 Mariners won 10 of 12 entering the postseason, finishing 116-46.

They went 4-6 in the playoffs.

*The 2008 Cubs went 98-64 and many thought were the best team in baseball.

They got blown out in 3 consecutive games by a mediocre 84-78 Dodgers team. 

—————————————-

There’s no rhyme or reason to what happens in the playoffs based off how the team finished the regular season.

Yes, I am aware of situations like this. And it is true, that all kinds of things happen in the post season. The Sox still have a good starting staff, and Eloy might break out of it. But these situations have nothing to do with the 2021 White Sox.

I would just feel better if the Sox turned it around. When was the last time they went on a winning streak? 

In reality, the AL is wide open. Any of the playoff contenders could end up in the World Series. It could even be the White Sox. I'm just not counting on it. 

[ChiSox59]

9 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

Why won't they get a full 2022 out of Kopech?  What they are doing with Kopech is exactly what they did with Chris Sale minus the extra year as a reliever.  Look at Sale's 2011 innings pitched.  Kopech is going to get pretty close to what Sale did.  There is no reason Kopech can't go 180 innings next year

I think there are lots of reasons Kopech can’t and won’t go 180 IP next season.