Grade this year's trade deadline

[ron883]

Grade it, folks. Sorry Greg, no plus or minus. Simple letter grade only. Let's see what you all think. 

[SoxBlanco]

Grade it with hindsight or strictly basing it off of the moves at the time they were made?

[ron883]

18 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Grade it with hindsight or strictly basing it off of the moves at the time they were made?

Grade it now. 

[PitchatRisktoZisk]

Failure to get a RF and dramatically overpaying for Kimbrel are huge negatives. Missing on Escobar is still mystifying to me. It will take HUGE contributions from Kimbrel and Cesar in the postseason to raise the grade. Since the Sox FO saw Cleveland waive the white flag before the deadline, any deals had to be to strengthen us in the postseason. I think we gave up way too much equity to not get a RF. 

[hi8is]

Ask me again in November. Then ask me again in June. Then ask me again in 2023.

[ShoeLessRob]

Regardless of their post season results, Cesar and Kimbrel are a big fat F. 

[ron883]

41 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Ask me again in November. Then ask me again in June. Then ask me again in 2023.

And then in 2030? No. You must vote now. 

[Chick Mercedes]

41 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Ask me again in November. Then ask me again in June. Then ask me again in 2023.

Well I think it’s all about Nov. Hahn again sold out youth for old going all in on the World Series. So far, perhaps another disaster. Hahn is the scorpion riding the frogs  back. Not sure why we thought he learned his lesson. Because he made fun of himself? 

[hi8is]

32 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You must vote now. 

Not possible.

[FriendlyNorthsider]

 

The Tepera trade was very solid. Horn is fine and may, possibly, eventually, become a contributor in the Cubs pen in 2023; however, he's a 35+ guy no matter how you slice it. The A's gave up Daniel Palencia who is a better prospect than Horn for Chafin who is objectively worse than Tep. 

Cesar obviously hasn't been great, but it would've been a bit short-sighted to just plug Leury in a second and take him out of the super-utility role. The idea of Cesar was that he'd be a league average bat (more pop than contact) with plus defense. Hasn't exactly worked out, but its hard to blame Hahn for that. Picking him up from the second place team in the division that you have a super series with at the end of the year was a nice boost. Looking back, Pilkerton was too steep of a price considering the results both have had, but their is no guarantee that Pilkerton's stuff will play at the bigs during the title window. Regardless, I dont think Pilkerton was netting more than Cesar so their isnt much opportunity cost worry here. 

Then obviously,  the Kimbrel Trade. If the plan was for an eighth inning guy, there were cheaper ways to do this. If Kimbrel were a guy like 2016 Andrew Miller that would give you 2 innings of shutdown relief every other night then fine. If you wanted to put Kimbrel at closer and move Hendricks into that role, then I'm good with that. Sox talk legend Codi Heuer got absolutely shelled today. Even prior to today I dont think anyone here would rather put him out there in the 8th instead of Kimbrel.

The biggest issue is the Madrigal part. The thought was that Cesar would provide similar value to Madrigal next year, while contributing to the title run this year. By 2023, Jose Rodriguez may be able to be the starting second basemen. To a tanking team like the Cubs, getting an MLB ready asset that wont impact the teams mission of putting a disgusting product out there day in and day out is a dream. The bigger concern is more the opportunity cost of what else Madrigal could've brought back. The right teams had to value a second-base-only guy with a torn hammy who relies on his hit tool. If the Marlins/Pirates/Rockies' scouts aren't impressed with Madrigal you can build a trade around him. Simple as that. 

Sure Bryant would've slotted in well, but there was no club option on Bryant and he would almost definitely leave after this year. I also really don't think that Hoyer and ownership would be willing to trade him to the South Side without a huge tax. On the emotional attachment scale, I think TA=Javy, Jose=Rizzo, and Bryant=Robert. Kimbrel is like Hendricks. Love the guy, but he's more of a mercenary than a guy you've been attached to for years. I root for the Sox, but that wouldve hurt me. 

There has been and will be debate on what Madrigal should've been cashed in for, but I think Hahn's process was sound here. The starters were dominant prior to the deadline and Lopez has been great as the #6 since. The lineup was producing and still had Robert, Grandal, and Eloy coming back. And the bullpen was very good, but there was a need for another reliable high-leverage guy so that Crochet and Kopech could avoid being over/misused. 

From the outside looking in, I think Hahn is a hell of a GM. Like Theo, he will have his warts when you look back at his tenure, but he brought back the Sox from purgatory by nailing the Sale, Quintana, and Eaton trades. If Hahn had a bigger budget, he may have given Zack Wheeler and offer so big that he told is in-laws to give him some space. Hahn obviously preferred Wheeler over Keuchel and that would've been a huge difference in this title window. 

If the Sox win the WS, the answer is A+. If not it's a C or worse. Pretty much no matter what he did during the deadline the answer would be the exact same. As for your question, I'd probably go B or C if I had to choose. I think he showed that he can be a somewhat unemotional buyer which is a good thing. I think some GMs would be more attached to their #4 overall pick and wouldn't sell him at an injury discount. 

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, hi8is said:

Not possible.

You can calculate a midterm grade well before the final exam occurs.

Its a C. The only reason it isn’t a D is Tepera.

[Jerry McNertney]

Madrigal for who?

[Goober]

7 hours ago, hi8is said:

Not possible.

Then move on and don’t post in the thread

[CentralChamps21]

I gave it an A for bringing a lot of anxiety to all the geniuses on this board who think they could do better.

[southsider2k5]

Nick Madrigal showed us two things in his time here. An 80 hit tool and an 80 injury tool.  Everything else about him was not what we expected.  Maybe he gets there eventually, but his defense and baserunning where decidedly average as a whole. The grinder fan club can stan him all they like, but when 2Bs are a dime a dozen, it's more like Nick Mehdrigal.  

Kimbrel may have struggled since he got here, but remember 2 things. #1, the pen outside of Liam was pretty scary at this point, including Heuer who was supposed to be a vital bridge guy. #2, Kimbrel had put up the best stats of any reliever on the market at that point, and Rick Hahn beat everyone to him without giving up a current starter or top prospect. 

[chitownsportsfan]

F-

[fathom]

With all due respect, I hate grading it now. If you graded the 2005 deadline before the season ended, anyone would have said “meh”.  After what Blum did in the WS, it’s considered an amazing deadline.  

[Bob Sacamano]

“As of right now : A” lol to those people.

As of today: definitely not higher than a D. That could be an A in November but that’s if we win World Series and IF Kimbrel is a big reason.

[reiks12]

57 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nick Madrigal showed us two things in his time here. An 80 hit tool and an 80 injury tool.  Everything else about him was not what we expected.  Maybe he gets there eventually, but his defense and baserunning where decidedly average as a whole. The grinder fan club can stan him all they like, but when 2Bs are a dime a dozen, it's more like Nick Mehdrigal. 

He was a rookie and his defense was improving. Everyone else gets a pass during the first couple of years but not Madrigal. His first year was his ceiling to most people for whatever reason. 

The Cubs had the choice between him and Crochet and wisely chose Madrigal. He is going to be an allstar for years to come.

[South Side Hit Men]

I’d say C for the players the team acquired, but voted D since they should have gotten another cheap starter and reliever or two to help get them over the final two months. Could have also used a legitimate 3rd or 4th OF, Goodwin should be nowhere near a playoff roster as he fails at every aspect of the game.

Kimbrel only made sense to cover their incompetent manager, and to free Kopech to stretch out, but that didn’t happen. They also had no intention to replace Liam, despite the fact he is better equipped to handle higher leverage or multi-inning appearances, so it didn’t make sense to commit those resources (players and $s) based on an eighth inning role Crochet is fine covering. There error will be compounded if they pick up Kimbrel option to try to save face or salvage something from the deal.

Tepera and Cesar are solid acquisitions based on what was available. Like the half dozen other costly old players Hahn has picked up over the past two years, the team would have been better served  spreading the wealth and getting two or three additional Tepera / Cesar pieces over an “all in” Kimbrel piece, especially in light of what was given up. Heuer is the more painful loss of the two for me, both this season and beyond.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, reiks12 said:

He was a rookie and his defense was improving. Everyone else gets a pass during the first couple of years but not Madrigal. His first year was his ceiling to most people for whatever reason. 

The Cubs had the choice between him and Crochet and wisely chose Madrigal. He is going to be an allstar for years to come.

An all-star as in the Cubs are rebuilding and need someone to represent them?  Sure. An all-star as in one of the best 2Bs in the NL?  Can't see it. Sure I could see him hitting. 330, but what else? He's physically limited in power for sure. He doesn't walk. His speed never materialized. He could hit. 330, and have a .725/.750 OPS.  

[ron883]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

F-

I said no minuses or pluses!

[reiks12]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

An all-star as in the Cubs are rebuilding and need someone to represent them?  Sure. An all-star as in one of the best 2Bs in the NL?  Can't see it. Sure I could see him hitting. 330, but what else? He's physically limited in power for sure. He doesn't walk. His speed never materialized. He could hit. 330, and have a .725/.750 OPS.  

Cesar Hernandez has power and hes a dogshit sub 700 OPS hitter. Cronenworth was a reserve for the NL and his stats are not that much better than Madrigal, so i dont see why being an allstar is out of reach. I guess you see Madrigal as having reached his ceiling and potential already while I see more room to grow (in all fields).

Madrigals last 15 games since changing his hitting approach (less contact more power): .545 slugging (no i dont think thats what he is, but he can develop into a respectable .450+ guy).

I do agree with you though that the injuries are concerning, so the trade will hinge on that and Kimbrel's playoff presence.

[SonofaRoache]

At the deadline it would have been a B. I loved the Tepera trade. I wanted Escobar over Cesar for sure, but Cesar was fine at his cost and pop. I liked adding Kimbrel but not at the expense of Madrigal and paying him 16 million. Especially when he struggles after changing teams. 

Now it is to be determined. I will just them after post season. 

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, Goober said:

Then move on and don’t post in the thread

Why would you engage with me if you want me to move on from a thread that I’ve already moved on from?

Silly Goober.