Grade this year's trade deadline

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Problem with the Kimbrel deal was that we did not really need him.  We already had Hendricks plus Kopech,Bummer, crochet and had acquired Tepera. Second problem was that we grossly overpaid for CK when we could have used resources instead to obtain the RF that we sorely needed. The Kimbrel trade was the Quintana trade in reverse.

Log off

[Quin]

Remember when Ron told us he'd go root for the Cubs?

See also: People upset about trading Dunning for Lynn, upset that Rodon was brought back to compete with Lopez for the 5th starter spot, and Jose Abreu's extension.

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Remember when Ron told us he'd go root for the Cubs?

See also: People upset about trading Dunning for Lynn, upset that Rodon was brought back to compete with Lopez for the 5th starter spot, and Jose Abreu's extension.

WE HAVE A POSTER COMPARING ELOY AND CEASE TO MADRIGAL AND HEUER

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They could have gotten Kris Bryant without giving up Madrigal. Bryant would have had a much greater impact on this team. I said this the day of the trade. Hahn's strategy never ever made sense. It was terrible. This was after missing out on the actual power-first 2nd baseman and getting one whose power was very obviously much less sustainable. Hahn failed miserably at the deadline.

What did the Cubs ask for from the Sox?

[southsider2k5]

41 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Problem with the Kimbrel deal was that we did not really need him.  We already had Hendricks plus Kopech,Bummer, crochet and had acquired Tepera. Second problem was that we grossly overpaid for CK when we could have used resources instead to obtain the RF that we sorely needed. The Kimbrel trade was the Quintana trade in reverse.

You weren't watching the same pen I was then.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

The correct answer is that it’s way too early to give a grade. All the guys the Sox acquired were brought here for October. It’s not October yet.

[hankchifan]

10 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

An all-star as in the Cubs are rebuilding and need someone to represent them?  Sure. An all-star as in one of the best 2Bs in the NL?  Can't see it. Sure I could see him hitting. 330, but what else? He's physically limited in power for sure. He doesn't walk. His speed never materialized. He could hit. 330, and have a .725/.750 OPS.  

Madrigal was one of the few contact hitters in the Sox lineup. Sox need more contact hitters as we have observed throughout this season.

[ron883]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Kimbrel was bad for the two years prior; he had been fading for his last 2 years in Boston as well. It's amazing how Madrigal is knocked by you while you flat out ignore what Kimbrel had shown for years prior to a good 30 innings this year. I sure hope you aren't in the investment world with your buy high and sell low strategy.

It's OK to be wrong. The trade sucked. Kimbrel isn't the superstar reliever he was in his 20's. You got the volatile guy that he has become and it was an atrocious deal. And now you're stuck with an 18 million dollar 8th inning guy next year who could be mediocre. If his option is picked up and he's not traded, Kimbrel no doubt prevents the Sox from making a move that would help the team much more than him next year.

This is why I have hated the trade from the start. Given the volatility of relievers and Kimbrel's recent history, it was possible that Heuer could be better than Kimbrel the remainder of the year (after the trade). We ALSO gave up Madrigal, who could very well be an all-star for years. The Sox will owe an aging reliever 18m next year if they want to keep him. That money would be better spent on somebody like Semien. They would also still have Heuer, who has the stuff to bounce back and be great like he was last season. That trade just sucked. Plain and simple. 

[SoxAce]

7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Given the volatility of relievers and Kimbrel's recent history, it was possible that Heuer could be better than Kimbrel the remainder of the year (after the trade).

FWIW, Heuer has been absolute ass with the Cubs recently. Like really bad.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

The correct answer is that it’s way too early to give a grade. All the guys the Sox acquired were brought here for October. It’s not October yet.

This angle is nonsense. They acquired them for the stretch run, to hopefully get a 1 or 2 seed and have home field which they did not get because those guys stink.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

It's ridiculous to grade it now, but consider the source. 

Lol so sox get swept in first round they lost the deal no matter what? Ok 

[Tony]

57 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol so sox get swept in first round they lost the deal no matter what? Ok 

Man, after all these years, you still just suck at this. You’d think you'd wise up just a little bit over time. 

The White Sox ran away and hid from the division during the 2021 season. It was unlike most other seasons we are used to.

The Sox bullpen, at times, was a strength for this team but also inconsistent. The Sox went out and got Ryan Tepera but over the following few days, teams across the league really bolstered their stretch rosters and the Sox decided to make a strength even stronger. 

Craig Kimbrel was far and away the best relief pitcher on the market. You can disagree, but you'd also be wrong. It was a guy many of us were asking for, and Hahn confirmed him and Williams had their eye on him since May as one of their ideal acquisitions. 

Now, see if you can stay with me here, this is where it gets a little nuanced, and I fear I may confuse you. The playoffs are more important than the regular season. I know it's hard to fathom, but the impact a dominant reliever can have in the playoffs is much greater than in the regular season, especially when recently we've seen starters get pulled incredibly early in postseason games. If Kimbrel is lights out this postseason and contributes meaningful, impactful innings on the way to the World Series.....I don't give a FUCK about a game he blew in the middle of August. I also won't give a fuck what Nicky Slapdick does for the Cubs in 2024 either. I hope he does great. But he is never going to be a true impact player and became expendable while sitting on the IL when the Sox were chasing a World Series. 

So yes, in conclusion.....you and Ron can have a circlejerk over Madrigal and Kimbrel struggling with the Sox. You hated the trade from the moment it was announced and won't hesitate to tell everyone the moment his name gets brought up. But I'm not willing to grade a trade when history is still being written. Kimbrel still has the opportunity to make a major impact for this team when it matters most. If he does that, the trade will be a win for hopefully both teams involved. If he shits the bed when it matters most, then it was a bad acquisition. But I'm also not going to hang Hann and Co. out to dry for acquiring the best available RP on the market and using an injured player as the main trade piece during their World Series window. That's what I want my GM to do. 

 

[Dick Allen]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This angle is nonsense. They acquired them for the stretch run, to hopefully get a 1 or 2 seed and have home field which they did not get because those guys stink.

So there were guys available that would have made the Sox 5 to 10 games better in the standings, and wouldn’t have cost much. Good to know, care to name names?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This angle is nonsense. They acquired them for the stretch run, to hopefully get a 1 or 2 seed and have home field which they did not get because those guys stink.

You can blame the Sox not getting home field more on La Russa than anyone else. He’s thrown away so many games this year because of the Sunday lineups.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

Man, after all these years, you still just suck at this. You’d think you'd wise up just a little bit over time. 

The White Sox ran away and hid from the division during the 2021 season. It was unlike most other seasons we are used to.

The Sox bullpen, at times, was a strength for this team but also inconsistent. The Sox went out and got Ryan Tepera but over the following few days, teams across the league really bolstered their stretch rosters and the Sox decided to make a strength even stronger. 

Craig Kimbrel was far and away the best relief pitcher on the market. You can disagree, but you'd also be wrong. It was a guy many of us were asking for, and Hahn confirmed him and Williams had their eye on him since May as one of their ideal acquisitions. 

Now, see if you can stay with me here, this is where it gets a little nuanced, and I fear I may confuse you. The playoffs are more important than the regular season. I know it's hard to fathom, but the impact a dominant reliever can have in the playoffs is much greater than in the regular season, especially when recently we've seen starters get pulled incredibly early in postseason games. If Kimbrel is lights out this postseason and contributes meaningful, impactful innings on the way to the World Series.....I don't give a FUCK about a game he blew in the middle of August. I also won't give a fuck what Nicky Slapdick does for the Cubs in 2024 either. I hope he does great. But he is never going to be a true impact player and became expendable while sitting on the IL when the Sox were chasing a World Series. 

So yes, in conclusion.....you and Ron can have a circlejerk over Madrigal and Kimbrel struggling with the Sox. You hated the trade from the moment it was announced and won't hesitate to tell everyone the moment his name gets brought up. But I'm not willing to grade a trade when history is still being written. Kimbrel still has the opportunity to make a major impact for this team when it matters most. If he does that, the trade will be a win for hopefully both teams involved. If he shits the bed when it matters most, then it was a bad acquisition. But I'm also not going to hang Hann and Co. out to dry for acquiring the best available RP on the market and using an injured player as the main trade piece during their World Series window. That's what I want my GM to do. 

 

Yes I hated the trade for the exact reason that it now stinks. Relievers are volatile and not worth that kind of investment. 

Kimbrel was not the best rp on the market. People really need to stop drawing conclusions from 30 innings. Iglesias has been better than Kimbrel for four years. And is a two inning reliever, which for the Sox  need much more. 

And sorry but trades aren't assessed based on what you deem important. Production throughout the duration of the Deal, given the price, was imperative for this to work.

[Chimpton]

23 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nick Madrigal showed us two things in his time here. An 80 hit tool and an 80 injury tool.  Everything else about him was not what we expected.  Maybe he gets there eventually, but his defense and baserunning where decidedly average as a whole. The grinder fan club can stan him all they like, but when 2Bs are a dime a dozen, it's more like Nick Mehdrigal.  

Kimbrel may have struggled since he got here, but remember 2 things. #1, the pen outside of Liam was pretty scary at this point, including Heuer who was supposed to be a vital bridge guy. #2, Kimbrel had put up the best stats of any reliever on the market at that point, and Rick Hahn beat everyone to him without giving up a current starter or top prospect. 

Being sensible and logical will get you nowhere on here! ☺️

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

You can blame the Sox not getting home field more on La Russa than anyone else. He’s thrown away so many games this year because of the Sunday lineups.

How many games have they won because players are rested and not playing every day? 

How will this play out in October?  Nobody knows if there were guarantees the GM's job would be much easier.

My guess is the Sox were working to get Tapera and Bryant and the cubs would not budge on that and that is how they got Kimbrel. 

[35thstreetswarm]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And sorry but trades aren't assessed based on what you deem important. Production throughout the duration of the Deal, given the price, was imperative for this to work.

I’m actually not a huge fan of the trade but you’re not disputing that playoff performance is more important than performance in August and September, are you?  That’s not a subjective preference.  It is more important.  And to be fair that’s the center of the rationale for the trade. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I’m actually not a huge fan of the trade but you’re not disputing that playoff performance is more important than performance in August and September, are you?  That’s not a subjective preference.  It is more important.  And to be fair that’s the center of the rationale for the trade. 

Sure, but it's also not guaranteed. No GM is making a trade thinking if we get swept in the first round, we lost that trade no matter what.

Kimbrel's impact on the playoffs is not nearly as significant as people here want to make it out to be. There's nothing that says the Sox couldn't have used another arm to be equally effective in a small sample.

It's like the Chapman nonsense, the guy had an ERA over 3.5 in the playoffs for the Cubs but people act like he won the Cubs the World Series. Countless other relievers could have produced his numbers in the playoffs that year. You're not replacing Kimbrel with Aaron Burr.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[chw42]

11 hours ago, SoxAce said:

FWIW, Heuer has been absolute ass with the Cubs recently. Like really bad.

Anybody who paid attention to his peripherals knew he wasn't gonna have a 1 ERA with them for too much longer.

[BrittBurnsFan]

34 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I’m actually not a huge fan of the trade but you’re not disputing that playoff performance is more important than performance in August and September, are you?  That’s not a subjective preference.  It is more important.  And to be fair that’s the center of the rationale for the trade. 

I just wonder if it is an automatic that Tony throws CK into an 8th inning in the playoffs?  If he does...I may have to leave the room because my stress levels will be out of this world!  LOL!  I mean...I haven't seen much from CK in a White Sox uniform that makes me feel good about seeing him in an important situation come October!

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes I hated the trade for the exact reason that it now stinks. Relievers are volatile and not worth that kind of investment. 

Kimbrel was not the best rp on the market. People really need to stop drawing conclusions from 30 innings. Iglesias has been better than Kimbrel for four years. And is a two inning reliever, which for the Sox  need much more. 

And sorry but trades aren't assessed based on what you deem important. Production throughout the duration of the Deal, given the price, was imperative for this to work.

Preach on brotha. I’m in full agreement with everything you have said about this deal.

[chw42]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes I hated the trade for the exact reason that it now stinks. Relievers are volatile and not worth that kind of investment. 

Kimbrel was not the best rp on the market. People really need to stop drawing conclusions from 30 innings. Iglesias has been better than Kimbrel for four years. And is a two inning reliever, which for the Sox  need much more. 

And sorry but trades aren't assessed based on what you deem important. Production throughout the duration of the Deal, given the price, was imperative for this to work.

I think Iglesias has a similar issue to Kimbrel where they don't pitch well in non save situations. I think there would be a chance of Iglesias bombing if we used him like a setup man like we have with Kimbrel. But at least Iglesias doesn't have deteriorating stuff and terrible mechanics issues. 

[35thstreetswarm]

28 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sure, but it's also not guaranteed. No GM is making a trade thinking if we get swept in the first round, we lost that trade no matter what.

Kimbrel's impact on the playoffs is not nearly as significant as people here want to make it out to be. There's nothing that says the Sox couldn't have used another arm to be equally effective in a small sample.

It's like the Chapman nonsense, the guy had an ERA over 3.5 in the playoffs for the Cubs but people act like he won the Cubs the World Series. Countless other relievers could have produced his numbers in the playoffs that year. You're not replacing Kimbrel with Aaron Burr.

Don’t dramatically disagree with any of that (though I’d quibble with the notion that he’s somehow interchangeable with multiple other available reliever options).  BUT if Kimbrel is nails in multiple high leverage situations in a deep playoff run that will make me feel dramatically better about the trade.

Edited September 27, 2021 by 35thstreetswarm

[kwill]

I don't understand these threads where the only thing it was made for is to complain about the front office. Let's live in the moment and enjoy October. After that you can judge, criticize or who knows maybe even leave a few positive comments. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by kwill