Should Leury Garcia start over Hernandez at 2nd base vs. Stros ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think he should. On the road Leury hits .297, .357 , .413, .770. Hernandez .220 , .290 , .354 , .644

The last 28 days Garcia .354 , .393. , .512 ,  .905 , 140 OPS +. Hernandez .247, .313, .385, .691  69 OPS+

Also at this point I don't think anyone can really say Hernandez over Leury makes that much of a difference defensively.

The 2nd half of the season Leury has been consistently impressive while Hernandez has epitomized the struggles of the 2nd half and the trade deadline .

Let's all hope the powers that be can see what is clearly visible and not let the trade deadline acquisition determine who starts in the playoffs.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ChiSox59]

Cesar isn't good.  

I am for sure starting Leury at 2B if it were up to me.  But I am guessing Cesar will get a start or two for sure. 

Partially depends on Engel too.  If Engel isn't healthy enough to play every playoff game, Leury is in RF and Cesar is at 2B.  If Engel IS healthy enough to play most/all games, I think you gotta put Leury at 2B. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by ChiSox59

[Chimpton]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think he should. On the road Leury hits .297, .357 , .413, .770. Hernandez .220 , .290 , .354 , .644

The last 28 days Garcia .354 , .393. , .512 ,  .905 , 140 OPS +. Hernandez .247, .313, .385, .691  69 OPS+

Also at this point I don't think anyone can really say Hernandez over Leury makes that much of a difference defensively.

The 2nd half of the season Leury has been consistently impressive while Hernandez has epitomized the struggles of the 2nd half and the trade deadline .

Let's all hope the powers that be can see what is clearly visible and not let the trade deadline acquisition determine who starts in the playoffs.

You pose a difficult question because both Garcia and Hernandez are routinely slated on here. But for what it is worth I would go with Garcia as the man in form, and a man who will always give 100% 

[CentralChamps21]

I think it really depends on Engel's health. If Engel is able to play RF then absolutely put Leury at 2B.

If Engel can't play RF, then in order to have Leury at 2B you probably have Vaughn in RF. Neither Vaughn nor Cesar are hitting right now but you're stronger defensively with Cesar at 2B and Leury in RF.

[wegner]

YES

[Marqhead]

I know it hasn't been there for us, but I like the potential for more pop from Cesar in the lineup. I'm fine with him batting 9th. 

I prefer Leury as a super-sub off the bench.

[Quin]

At this point, yes.

If someone else needs to come out for defense, just shift Leury and put Cesar at second.

Leury Legend lives to fight another day.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Marqhead said:

I know it hasn't been there for us, but I like the potential for more pop from Cesar in the lineup. I'm fine with him batting 9th. 

I prefer Leury as a super-sub off the bench.

If the lineup is as follows, who exactly is Leury super-subing for:

Anderson SS, Robert CF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH, Eloy LF, Moncada 3B, Engel RF, Sheets/Vaughn DH, Cesar 2B

There really aren't any spots for him to pinch hit.  If you're making OF defensive changes late for Eloy, it'll be Billy.  Whoever starts between Sheets/Vaughn will be pinch hit for themselves between the 2 of them.  If Leury is on the bench, he's kind of glued there.  If you choose Cesar over Leury to start, you probably aren't changing course on that mid-game as their both switch hitters. 

[joejoesox]

obviously

[bmags]

I'd say yes, though I'd note 2b has always felt like Leury's worst infield position ironically. SS and 3B I like him fine, 2b he seems to make more errors. But we are comparing him to cesar so.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, Marqhead said:

I know it hasn't been there for us, but I like the potential for more pop from Cesar in the lineup. I'm fine with him batting 9th. 

I prefer Leury as a super-sub off the bench.

I am a huge proponent of HR's making the difference in the playoffs. However that being said, Leury has been BY FAR the better player since the All-Star break and if that continues in the playoffs Leury  would be the easy choice to keep innings going and being on base for the HR's from the other guys. Also with the Sox road struggles having a guy who is also far better on the road helps tremendously.

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the lineup is as follows, who exactly is Leury super-subing for:

Anderson SS, Robert CF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH, Eloy LF, Moncada 3B, Engel RF, Sheets/Vaughn DH, Cesar 2B

There really aren't any spots for him to pinch hit.  If you're making OF defensive changes late for Eloy, it'll be Billy.  Whoever starts between Sheets/Vaughn will be pinch hit for themselves between the 2 of them.  If Leury is on the bench, he's kind of glued there.  If you choose Cesar over Leury to start, you probably aren't changing course on that mid-game as their both switch hitters. 

That lineup (with Leury in for Cesar) has so much drip. 

[Greg Hibbard]

I love what Leury's done lately. LOVE IT.

That being said, I want the best double play combination we can have in every inning. So in my opinion, Cesar plays second with Leury off the bench if someone needs to come out. We don't need Cesar's bat as much as we need his glove.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'd say yes, though I'd note 2b has always felt like Leury's worst infield position ironically. SS and 3B I like him fine, 2b he seems to make more errors. But we are comparing him to cesar so.

 Cesar has looked a little boneheaded at times there.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I love what Leury's done lately. LOVE IT.

That being said, I want the best double play combination we can have in every inning. So in my opinion, Cesar plays second with Leury off the bench if someone needs to come out. We don't need Cesar's bat as much as we need his glove.

his double play suckage is why i'd rather just have leury at this point (let alone offense)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I love what Leury's done lately. LOVE IT.

That being said, I want the best double play combination we can have in every inning. So in my opinion, Cesar plays second with Leury off the bench if someone needs to come out. We don't need Cesar's bat as much as we need his glove.

I think in Houston we are going to have to out hit Houston. Hard to hold that lineup down offensively. I think Cesar's glove is over rated at this point. He hasn't been that good. He's looked lost at times, can't get the ball out of his glove a few times that cost a DP, didn't cover 2nd on a potential DP and that's just stuff I can remember from the past week+.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Colome's Hat]

To be hoenst I platoon Garcia to make sure he is in the starting lineup at all times.  So I start Cesar at 2nd one night and Leury in RF.  Next night put Leury at 2nd and Engel or Vaughn in RF.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Colome's Hat said:

To be hoenst I platoon Garcia to make sure he is in the starting lineup at all times.  So I start Cesar at 2nd one night and Leury in RF.  Next night put Leury at 2nd and Engel or Vaughn in RF.

Vaughn has been pitiful lately. Leury and Engel should be choices ahead of him in RF. Engel ,if he can, should be in RF every day and Leury at 2b every day. That would be the best offensive and, frankly, the best defensive alignment at both positions or at least equal at 2nd base.Hernandez'  offensive woes seem to be affecting his D. He's had his head up his ass for a while.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Vaughn has been pitiful lately. Leury and Engel should be choices ahead of him in RF. Engel ,if he can, should be in RF every day and Leury at 2b every day. That would be the best offensive and, frankly, the best defensive alignment at both positions or at least equal at 2nd base.Hernandez'  offensive woes seem to be affecting his D. He's had his head up his ass for a while.

Vaughn has 19 PA since coming off the IL.  He wasn't great in September before hitting the shelf, but the SS is very small.  He had some nice at bats in Cleveland this past weekend.  

But yeah, at this point, Vaughn is a platoon bat in the playoffs and only going to start against LHP.  I have accepted it for the time being with Gavin swinging a hot bat. 

[Quin]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn has 19 PA since coming off the IL.  He wasn't great in September before hitting the shelf, but the SS is very small.  He had some nice at bats in Cleveland this past weekend.  

But yeah, at this point, Vaughn is a platoon bat in the playoffs and only going to start against LHP.  I have accepted it for the time being with Gavin swinging a hot bat. 

I'll take a .953 OPS against LHP and .916 OPS against RHP from our two rookies.

[Marqhead]

51 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the lineup is as follows, who exactly is Leury super-subing for:

Anderson SS, Robert CF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH, Eloy LF, Moncada 3B, Engel RF, Sheets/Vaughn DH, Cesar 2B

There really aren't any spots for him to pinch hit.  If you're making OF defensive changes late for Eloy, it'll be Billy.  Whoever starts between Sheets/Vaughn will be pinch hit for themselves between the 2 of them.  If Leury is on the bench, he's kind of glued there.  If you choose Cesar over Leury to start, you probably aren't changing course on that mid-game as their both switch hitters. 

This is a good point, I guess I’m thinking a late pinch running or defensive replacement if needed. Injury replacement. Random situations come up in late and tight playoff games all the time. 
 

Bottom line I’m saying I prefer the potential of Cesars bat and glove to what Leury brings to the table, which I understand is an unpopular opinion and not backed up by recent stats. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Marqhead

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Marqhead said:

This is a good point, I guess I’m thinking a late pinch running or defensive replacement if needed. Injury replacement. Random situations come up in late and tight playoff games all the time. 

Botrom line I’m saying I prefer the potential of Cesars bat and glove to what Leury brings to the table, which I understand is an unpopular opinion and not backed up by recent stats. 

For sure.  Leury will be extremely valuable if we're lucky enough to make the WS in NL park games.

I hear ya on Cesar.  He's probably a better defender than Leury at 2B, which has to count for something.  Its amazing to think the dude hit 18 homers with Cleveland.  Seriously looks like he is swinging a pool noodle at the dish, so I have a hard time understanding how that happened.  Leury has been so good lately tho - its hard to sit him.  Truth be told, I don't think Engel plays more than a game or two in the ALDS, so I think Leury will be in RF for a few games, and at 2B the others. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn has 19 PA since coming off the IL.  He wasn't great in September before hitting the shelf, but the SS is very small.  He had some nice at bats in Cleveland this past weekend.  

But yeah, at this point, Vaughn is a platoon bat in the playoffs and only going to start against LHP.  I have accepted it for the time being with Gavin swinging a hot bat. 

Post All Star break his hitting stats are worse than Hernandez so that's a bigger sample size.I'd say if Vaughn see any AB's it will be against LHP at DH only if Engel can start every game in RF. I understand Vaughn gets a lot of rope around here because of what he may become but currently his role is very limited.

Remember all the people here who said Vaughn had to play all of the time in LF with Eloy DHing ? Remember all the people who said Vaughn had to play every day no matter what ? Let's face it, he has received the benefit of the doubt all season because of the lack of quality options in the OF and criticism of him has met with scorn but right now he has issues and if he gets any playing time before the season ends he has to show something. He needs to start being treated like any other player with limited OF defensive skills and in a huge slump. He's had one great month and that was July.

I'm not sure how to get 2nd half stats against LHP only . Maybe that would paint a more favorable picture of Vaughn's hitting.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[KrankinSox]

Leury has been playing well and has earned the starting 2B spot over Hernandez, certainly against RHP.

Having said that, I fully expect Leury to go 0-10 in the ALDS.

[ShoeLessRob]

Yes. In reality Cesar shouldn’t even be on this team he’s been replacement level since the trade.