MLB 2021-2 off season thread

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

My day is going to be even better because not only am I excited for what you described, but I am also excited to read your responses to those fans. 

Sadly have a very busy work day ahead. Won't be able to applaud those fiscally conservative fans until later tonight. Pretty heart broken about it. 

[2Deep]

So much angst here about not signing FA's.  I don't know if you all are seeing it but many teams (Mets, Rangers, others) are overpaying for guys.

I have no problem with us sitting back and not overpaying, because we don't have the holes that other teams have.  As much as we don't want to believe it we truly only have holes in 2 everyday positions (2B, RF).

sure we need the following also:

RP- But may have addressed with Graveman

C- There will be back up catchers, not need to rush and overpay

SP- You have Giolitto, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Kuechel (fwiw).............would love to have a another top tier guy but that can be done through trade before and during season.  BTW- Last I checked Rodon hasn't signed anywhere YET

Our needs are not drastic.  I want this team to spend money but not stupidly...............I want us to be contender for a long time and not be handicapped by dumb contracts.  

 

BUT...........continue with your angst and bemoaning ................ 

 

[maloney.adam]

14 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

I just feel like this is going to be another instance where the FO completely misreads the market like they did last year.

Yeah I’m not going to overreact but it’s going to be a big disappointment if they don’t do anything and just stay pat especially with all the insiders and projections saying they were going to be aggressive this offseason and the payroll is going to be close to $190-$200 million but plenty of offseason left to add some players. If they don’t do anything Rick Hahn definitely has some explaining to do but we’ll get to that when the time comes. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, 2Deep said:

So much angst here about not signing FA's.  I don't know if you all are seeing it but many teams (Mets, Rangers, others) are overpaying for guys.

I have no problem with us sitting back and not overpaying, because we don't have the holes that other teams have.  As much as we don't want to believe it we truly only have holes in 2 everyday positions (2B, RF).

sure we need the following also:

RP- But may have addressed with Graveman

C- There will be back up catchers, not need to rush and overpay

SP- You have Giolitto, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Kuechel (fwiw).............would love to have a another top tier guy but that can be done through trade before and during season.  BTW- Last I checked Rodon hasn't signed anywhere YET

Our needs are not drastic.  I want this team to spend money but not stupidly...............I want us to be contender for a long time and not be handicapped by dumb contracts.  

 

BUT...........continue with your angst and bemoaning ................ 

 

Enjoy Joc Pederson and the return of Cesar Hernandez for 2022!

[Bunt Ritual]

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

Yeah I’m not going to overreact but it’s going to be a big disappointment if they don’t do anything and just stay pat especially with all the insiders and projections saying they were going to be aggressive this offseason and the payroll is going to close to $190-$200 million but plenty of offseason left to add some players. 

 

Kind of where I'm at. It really depends who comes off the board today.

[2Deep]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Enjoy Joc Pederson and the return of Cesar Hernandez for 2022!

LOL.........neither is happening so I'm good.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

So much angst here about not signing FA's.  I don't know if you all are seeing it but many teams (Mets, Rangers, others) are overpaying for guys.

I have no problem with us sitting back and not overpaying, because we don't have the holes that other teams have.  As much as we don't want to believe it we truly only have holes in 2 everyday positions (2B, RF).

sure we need the following also:

RP- But may have addressed with Graveman

C- There will be back up catchers, not need to rush and overpay

SP- You have Giolitto, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Kuechel (fwiw).............would love to have a another top tier guy but that can be done through trade before and during season.  BTW- Last I checked Rodon hasn't signed anywhere YET

Our needs are not drastic.  I want this team to spend money but not stupidly...............I want us to be contender for a long time and not be handicapped by dumb contracts.  

 

BUT...........continue with your angst and bemoaning ................ 

 

It's not an overpay just because you've been conditioned as a Sox fan to think good players don't deserve what they are paid... while the Sox spend millions on Adam Eaton, Mark Teahan, and Adam LaRoche. Every dollar the Sox don't spend goes into ownerships pocket, which seems to be where your rooting interests are.

For everyone who talks about the big contract failures, they appear to ignore the fact that no one has been worse with FA signings, arguably, than the White Sox all while shopping at the dollar store.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[South Side Hit Men]

This would be a solid add for the White Sox.

 

[2Deep]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's not an overpay just because you've been conditioned as a Sox fan to think good players don't deserve what they are paid... while the Sox spend millions on Adam Eaton, Mark Teahan, and Adam LaRoche. Every dollar the Sox don't spend goes into ownerships pocket, which seems to be where your rooting interests are.

For everyone who talks about the big contract failures, they appear to ignore the fact that no one has been worse with FA signings, arguably, than the White Sox all while shopping at the dollar store.

Sure.......good players deserve the contracts they get.  

Sometimes overpaying means the years that are added

Sometime overpaying means paying for years and money to certain guys that will make your finances strapped because you will have your own guys you will need to pay as their time comes

Sometimes overpaying means that your needs are not worth the contract because you already have a pretty damn good team.............because you may be able to get someone at a better cost who fits your team and where you are better.

 

[maloney.adam]

The only player that seems to be on the Sox radar in FA is Conforto even though none of the national writers have mentioned his name yet.

[Baron]

Just now, maloney.adam said:

The only player that seems to be on the Sox radar in FA is Conforto even though none of the national writers have mentioned his name yet.

Bob did 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, maloney.adam said:

The only player that seems to be on the Sox radar in FA is Conforto even though none of the national writers have mentioned his name yet.

And this doesn't matter. They don't usually leak everything.

[Baron]

 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

 

that means its over or hitting an impasse?

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, bmags said:

that means its over or hitting an impasse?

He was probably waiting to see if a team out West could get close to the number.

[Baron]

 

[ShoeLessRob]

Rick Hahn trying to find a offer for a Conforto contract well below market, but heavily incentives driven.

Edited November 29, 2021 by ShoeLessRob

[chw42]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This would be a solid add for the White Sox.

 

Stallings catches against lefties, Grandal against righties. Grandal and Sheets platoon at DH. 

[Baron]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Rick Hahn trying to find a offer for a Conforto contract well below market, but heavily incentives driven.

Accurate as fuck.

[Baron]

All quiet on the western front 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I'm going to stand up for our core here. 

Robert, Anderson, Moncada can get 4 WAR, Grandal can get you 4 WAR. Eloy despite it all was on pace for 4 WAR in 2020, defense and all, and showed signs of improvement defensively last year.

And you included Marwin Gonzalez and Reddick. So yes, you could get 4 WAR from Conforto, it has happened before. And you could get 4 WAR from Abreu. And you could get 4 WAR from a Jean Segura in a career high BABIP year. 

Correa, Springer, Altuve, Bregman - that was their core. Then they had solid players around them, some of which had career years.

The nice thing about Moncada establishing a very high floor with his OBP, is it will not take huge jumps in slugging to become much more productive. And he has plus D.

Everyone on this team is apparently incredibly annoying to this board. Unless your name Yadier Molina, some portion of the fanbase probably hates you too much.

According to bWAR Grandal has never had a 4 WAR season so I looked him up on fangraphs and he has  had 5 seasons of 4+ fWAR .Why the big difference between the 2 in previous years IDK but they both had him at 3.7 last year so, yes, he's capable of it considering the low amount of games played but can he hold up for enough games ?

Conforto and Segura aren't even on the team so until we actually see what new players we get I'll skip them as you probably should have.

I could have just as easily stuck up for the core . As I said they are full of potential but the board is full of people praising the core and not wanting to trade prospects. And the guys who never give the Sox the benefit of the doubt like @Look at Ray Ray Run,     @Jack Parkman    ,  @South Side Hit Men @caulfield12  @Thad Bosley all get attacked for their "style" of posting. Right now all we got is injury after injury and potential and Jerry running the show. Oooof. Hell I've had run ins with most of those guys in my more optimistic days. I kind of vacillate between wearing the tinted rose glasses and looking at the whole forest.

I can exchange ideas and thoughts opposing @Chicago White Sox and @fathom points of view because we show each other mutual respect. It's very difficult trying to be objective around here because as Sox fans we are full of hopes and dreams . No one wants their hopes and dreams crushed by realists, objectivity and pessimism.

When your hopes and dreams get in the way of your objectivity and love of potential you get mass delusions like everyone opining that Eloy should only be a DH when he comes back from injury . No one wanted to hear anyone tell them otherwise, that Eloy was going to be back in LF.

Now Vaughn is expected to get the same PA's this year he got last year and not traded by the true believers . Now a few more people see he  doesn't fit in on the current team and probably should be back in the minors like Dan Szymborski of Fangraphs recently suggested.Of course we can cling to his potential and HOPE he comes out guns blazing and never stops .

@Lillian has been talking about getting more LH for years and she took abuse for it. Now all of a sudden it has become fashionable and the majority now want it so she's no longer the lone wolf in the crowd everyone can poke fun at. I had the gall to suggest Vaughn not get so much playing time and his fielding was too small a sample size to be trusted and I got roasted for it .

The core best pick up the pace and stop getting injured if everyone wants to be all jolly instead of at each others throats when the vocal majority shout down and mock the "pessimists".

[chetkincaid]

42 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Rick Hahn trying to find a offer for a Conforto contract well below market, but heavily incentives driven.

If I were Conforto I’d tell Reinsdorf to go pound sand and sign with a team that wants to pay players to win. 

[bmags]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

According to bWAR Grandal has never had a 4 WAR season so I looked him up on fangraphs and he has  had 5 seasons of 4+ fWAR .Why the big difference between the 2 in previous years IDK but they both had him at 3.7 last year so, yes, he's capable of it considering the low amount of games played but can he hold up for enough games ?

Conforto and Segura aren't even on the team so until we actually see what new players we get I'll skip them as you probably should have.

I could have just as easily stuck up for the core . As I said they are full of potential but the board is full of people praising the core and not wanting to trade prospects. And the guys who never give the Sox the benefit of the doubt like @Look at Ray Ray Run,     @Jack Parkman    ,  @South Side Hit Men @caulfield12  @Thad Bosley all get attacked for their "style" of posting. Right now all we got is injury after injury and potential and Jerry running the show. Oooof. Hell I've had run ins with most of those guys in my more optimistic days. I kind of vacillate between wearing the tinted rose glasses and looking at the whole forest.

I can exchange ideas and thoughts opposing @Chicago White Sox and @fathom points of view because we show each other mutual respect. It's very difficult trying to be objective around here because as Sox fans we are full of hopes and dreams . No one wants their hopes and dreams crushed by realists, objectivity and pessimism.

When your hopes and dreams get in the way of your objectivity and love of potential you get mass delusions like everyone opining that Eloy should only be a DH when he comes back from injury . No one wanted to hear anyone tell them otherwise, that Eloy was going to be back in LF.

Now Vaughn is expected to get the same PA's this year he got last year and not traded by the true believers . Now a few more people see he  doesn't fit in on the current team and probably should be back in the minors like Dan Szymborski of Fangraphs recently suggested.Of course we can cling to his potential and HOPE he comes out guns blazing and never stops .

@Lillian has been talking about getting more LH for years and she took abuse for it. Now all of a sudden it has become fashionable and the majority now want it so she's no longer the lone wolf in the crowd everyone can poke fun at. I had the gall to suggest Vaughn not get so much playing time and his fielding was too small a sample size to be trusted and I got roasted for it .

The core best pick up the pace and stop getting injured if everyone wants to be all jolly instead of at each others throats when the vocal majority shout down and mock the "pessimists".

I'm not a big bWAR fan, but not sure it matters that much. Fangraphs catcher metrics value framing more, so it will like grandal.

Talked with eminor about it, but starting to like using baseball prospectus more. Wish I was smart enough to mesh BPs FRAA with wRC+

but if we did WARP:
Grandal - beloved by BP catching metrics, has been above 4 WARP for every season since 2015, excluding 2020 (shortened)

I don't even know what the rest of your post is talking about.

 

[wegner]

47 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Rick Hahn trying to find a offer for a Conforto contract well below market, but heavily incentives driven.

That's really an unfair assessment of the situation.  Rick might just have been waiting to see if Conforto or his agent was offering a cyber Monday deal....don't criticize the guy for being budget conscious.