Madrigal

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3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Seager is going to cost like 150 million more than Semien, how in the world is he more realistic?

And I’m sure he has no suitors at shortstop where he’d prefer either

[Dam8610]

White Sox record on June 9 (day Madrigal was injured): 37-24 (.607 win %)

White Sox record after June 9: 56-45 (.554 win %)

[hi8is]

38 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

White Sox record on June 9 (day Madrigal was injured): 37-24 (.607 win %)

White Sox record after June 9: 56-45 (.554 win %)

Yep. Look at that video I posted and notice how many of his RBIs were with 2 outs and runners on.

We’re really going to miss him.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:24 PM, YouGottaBeBleepingMe said:

Just sad. All of the posters who clamor for guys who have the physical skills but lack the ballplayer instincts make me sick. When you watch the Astros, you see guys like Altuve who just know how to play the game. Guy is 5'6 and weighs 166 lbs according to baseball reference. Yet, all of you people who marginalized Madrigal who was of similar physical stature were so happy to dump him. Makes me sick to my stomach just thinking of his contact rate, batting average, solid glove, and baseball instincts and knowing he was deemed expendable. You need guys like Madrigal more than you need guys like Moncada.

I totally agree with you! Those haters of Madrigal will be extremely upset in the future years if Madrigal is playing in frequent all star games for the Cubs. Plus the Sox have always been patient with their first round picks, especially a 4th overall pick. Hahn has done many great moves in this rebuild, but this one was a horrific disaster. Hahn should have told Jed Hoyer that Madrigal was not an option and offer someone else.

I am so tired of BS that he had no power. He makes more contact than most other MLB players and hit over 300. He gets on base. The goal is to get on base and then score a run. 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/8/2021 at 4:45 PM, loidwalden said:

How does that Kimbrel, Madrigal trade look now....dumb

It was a horrible trade when it was made. It's even more sickening now. Everyone only wants to remember the first half amazing season Kimbrel was having. Yet everyone seems to forget or are ignorant of the fact, he was horrible in 2019 and 2020. In 2019 a 6.53 ERA, WHIP 1.60 and 2020 a 5.28 ERA, WHIP 1.43. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze. We got fleeced. It's so ironic that Hahn fleeced the Cubs to get Jimenez and Cease and then he allows the Cubs to get payback. 

[BrittBurnsFan]

19 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

It was a horrible trade when it was made. It's even more sickening now. Everyone only wants to remember the first half amazing season Kimbrel was having. Yet everyone seems to forget or are ignorant of the fact, he was horrible in 2019 and 2020. In 2019 a 6.53 ERA, WHIP 1.60 and 2020 a 5.28 ERA, WHIP 1.43. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze. We got fleeced. It's so ironic that Hahn fleeced the Cubs to get Jimenez and Cease and then he allows the Cubs to get payback.  

I know Stone is a mouthpiece for the organization but he went out and praised this trade as much as anyone could praise it!  And while doing so...it seemed he was a bit critical of Madrigal.  I recall him using phrases like "Madrigal is done developing, low ceiling, defense had been disappointing, and fragile".  Obviously the Cubs brass didn't view Madrigal that way but I do remember thinking that Stone really went after Madrigal in his overwhelming praise of the trade!

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:51 PM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Teams are going to line up for Kimbrel this off season.  They're smart enough not to let a 2 month sample size affect their evaluation on a player of Kimbrel's caliber.  Plus when they really dig in and understand just how horribly the Sox have handled his situation they'll be even more in on him. 

There is more than a small body of recent work where has been horrible. Yes he once was one of the premier closers in baseball and yes he had that amazing first half. However In 2019 he had a 6.53 ERA, WHIP 1.60 and in 2020 he had a 5.28 ERA, WHIP 1.43. Now all the teams see his horrific second half with the Sox. I have many Cubs friends who are glad Kimbrel is gone and know they got the better of the deal. 

[Dick Allen]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

There is more than a small body of recent work where has been horrible. Yes he once was one of the premier closers in baseball and yes he had that amazing first half. However In 2019 he had a 6.53 ERA, WHIP 1.60 and in 2020 he had a 5.28 ERA, WHIP 1.43. Now all the teams see his horrific second half with the Sox. I have many Cubs friends who are glad Kimbrel is gone and know they got the better of the deal. 

Kimbrel won't have any problem finding a closer job. It just won't be for anything close to $16 million for 2022.

[southsider2k5]

57 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I totally agree with you! Those haters of Madrigal will be extremely upset in the future years if Madrigal is playing in frequent all star games for the Cubs. Plus the Sox have always been patient with their first round picks, especially a 4th overall pick. Hahn has done many great moves in this rebuild, but this one was a horrific disaster. Hahn should have told Jed Hoyer that Madrigal was not an option and offer someone else.

I am so tired of BS that he had no power. He makes more contact than most other MLB players and hit over 300. He gets on base. The goal is to get on base and then score a run. 

Nick Madrigal played 54 of 162 games this year.    Last year he played 29 of 60 games.  That is 83 of 222.  In 139 of 222 games in the last two seasons, he made no contact, had no power, gave no speed or defense to the team because he was not available to them.

If the goal is to get on base, you have to be able to play to get on base.

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Kimbrel won't have any problem finding a closer job. It just won't be for anything close to $16 million for 2022.

If anyone does give him that kind of money then they are really stupid. 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nick Madrigal played 54 of 162 games this year.    Last year he played 29 of 60 games.  That is 83 of 222.  In 139 of 222 games in the last two seasons, he made no contact, had no power, gave no speed or defense to the team because he was not available to them.

If the goal is to get on base, you have to be able to play to get on base.

But in those games he didn't play, he put up a 0.0 WAR. They replaced him with a much more expensive guy who put up a negative WAR. Madrigal outplayed him sitting on his couch. And the guy they traded him for was even more expensive, and he won't be a White Sox much longer. I get Madrigal has been hurt, but that doesn't mean he is going to miss half the season moving forward, because if that is exactly what it means, the Sox have a problem. They have a few guys in the same boat.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

But in those games he didn't play, he put up a 0.0 WAR. They replaced him with a much more expensive guy who put up a negative WAR. Madrigal outplayed him sitting on his couch.

Who they replaced him with is a different story, but at the same time, Nick Madrigal being hurt all of the time created the Ceasar Hernandez trade.  If he plays 140 games, no trade.

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Nick Madrigal played 54 of 162 games this year.    Last year he played 29 of 60 games.  That is 83 of 222.  In 139 of 222 games in the last two seasons, he made no contact, had no power, gave no speed or defense to the team because he was not available to them.

If the goal is to get on base, you have to be able to play to get on base.

You are making the assumption he will always be injured in the future. You can't predict that. How do you know if he hasn't learned from these two horrific injuries and will train harder and smarter to stay healthy in the future? The Sox have hung in there for long periods of time with with several former first round picks. Hmm, let's see, Rodon was a high number 1 pick (3rd overall) and they were patient with his constant injuries and surgeries. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

You are making the assumption he will always be injured in the future. You can't predict that. How do you know if he hasn't learned from these two horrific injuries and will train harder and smarter to stay healthy in the future? The Sox have hung in there for long periods of time with with several former first round picks. Hmm, let's see, Rodon was a high number 1 pick (3rd overall) and they were patient with his constant injuries and surgeries. 

He was also coming off of a major injury when we picked him.

Rodon is a great example of what I am talking about.  In seven years he qualified for the era title ONCE.  Because Rodon didn't stay healthy or effective, we weren't patient, we had to keep adding more starting pitchers because we couldn't count on him.  We even DFA'd him last year, and brought him back on a discount contract because no one else was willing to pay him decent money either.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But in those games he didn't play, he put up a 0.0 WAR. They replaced him with a much more expensive guy who put up a negative WAR. Madrigal outplayed him sitting on his couch.

Eduardo Escobar put up about 2 fWAR over the time Madrigal was hurt, but had some phantom issue the White Sox didn’t like. 2 wins would have been home field advantage in round 1.

[flavum]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nick Madrigal played 54 of 162 games this year.    Last year he played 29 of 60 games.  That is 83 of 222.  In 139 of 222 games in the last two seasons, he made no contact, had no power, gave no speed or defense to the team because he was not available to them.

If the goal is to get on base, you have to be able to play to get on base.

He was brought up for game 7 in 2020, so 29 out of 54. 83 of 216. Just in case you need this stat in the future.

Edited October 13, 2021 by flavum

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Who they replaced him with is a different story, but at the same time, Nick Madrigal being hurt all of the time created the Ceasar Hernandez trade.  If he plays 140 games, no trade.

Madrigal not playing a 140 games is not the problem that caused the trade. The problem is Heuer not having another season like his rookie year. Foster not coming through like he did in his rookie year. Marshall not being healthy. Crochet being inconsistent and not having his great rookie year. This forced the trade for Kimbrel, due to the fact Hahn felt the bullpen was weak and he needed Kimbrel and Tepera.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Madrigal not playing a 140 games is not the problem that caused the trade. The problem is Heuer not having another season like his rookie year. Foster not coming through like he did in his rookie year. Marshall not being healthy. Crochet being inconsistent and not having his great rookie year. This forced the trade for Kimbrel, due to the fact Hahn felt the bullpen was weak and he needed Kimbrel and Tepera.

Madrigal not being able to play 2B is exactly what caused the Hernandez trade.  His not being able to play everyday is what got him included in the Kimbrel deal because then the Sox felt they wouldn't miss him.  If he plays every day, neither is actually true.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, flavum said:

He was brought up for game 7 in 2020, so 29 out of 54. 83 of 216. Just in case you need this stat in the future.

Thanks for the update.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, flavum said:

He was brought up for game 7 in 2020, so 29 out of 54. 83 of 216. Just in case you need this stat in the future.

Huh?

[The Kids Can Play]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He was also coming off of a major injury when we picked him.

Rodon is a great example of what I am talking about.  In seven years he qualified for the era title ONCE.  Because Rodon didn't stay healthy or effective, we weren't patient, we had to keep adding more starting pitchers because we couldn't count on him.  We even DFA'd him last year, and brought him back on a discount contract because no one else was willing to pay him decent money either.

You are missing the point. The Sox were patient with Rodon. Before the Sox DFA'd him last year, they hung with him for 6 years. What the Sox did to try and find starters is another thing. The fact is they hung in with Rodon for 6 years.

[flavum]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Huh?

You can’t bang him for 6 games of being hurt when he wasn’t on the team. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, flavum said:

You can’t bang him for 6 games of being hurt when he wasn’t on the team. 

But the games were still played without him though right?

[Chi Town Sox]

42 minutes ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

I know Stone is a mouthpiece for the organization but he went out and praised this trade as much as anyone could praise it!  And while doing so...it seemed he was a bit critical of Madrigal.  I recall him using phrases like "Madrigal is done developing, low ceiling, defense had been disappointing, and fragile".  Obviously the Cubs brass didn't view Madrigal that way but I do remember thinking that Stone really went after Madrigal in his overwhelming praise of the trade!

Similar has been said directly from the mouth of a Brewers scout that I know.  

I remember outside of his 2 strike prowess, nothing but complaints about Madrigal about his defense, his range, his base running, his lack of power, etc.  up and down this board.  

The trade didn't work out, it would be nice to move on.  Kimbrel  is one reason the Sox didn't win this series but it isn't the main reason.

Nick Madrigal is on the Cubs now.  Some on here post about him like He is Fernando Tatis.  Move on.  

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are missing the point. The Sox were patient with Rodon. Before the Sox DFA'd him last year, they hung with him for 6 years. What the Sox did to try and find starters is another thing. The fact is they hung in with Rodon for 6 years.

And as long as your team is rebuilding , that’s fine. 2 extra wins would have been huge to the White Sox this year. 15 extra wins would have made no difference to the 2018 white Sox.