ALDS Game 3 - HOU @ CWS - 7:07pm CDT

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

If Gio attacks and doesnt walk 2 guys in a row everything changes.

They almost let walks beat them this series.

Grandal and Leury will be remembered forever in Sox lore if they can dig out of this hole.

Just hope that Rodon doesn’t hurt himself tomorrow night trying to do much and reaching back for some extra velocity…

[hankchifan]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

If Gio attacks and doesnt walk 2 guys in a row everything changes.

They almost let walks beat them this series.

Gio should not have been pitching then. Walks did indeed kill us in that game.

[Tony]

6 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

This take is so hard to understand. Blaming a player for being something he is not. His mental edge is starting clean in the 9th inning for all the chips. That is why everyone with good stuff can't do it, it is terrifying for most pitchers. It is the adrenaline rush that they use to lift their performanc, and they thrive on that. If the eight inning is meh to them so they fail at a higher rate, that sucks, but don't use them in the eighth. If you do, it is not the play's fault they don't bring the 9th inning stuff out there. They aren't that guy in the eight. No amount of cajoling can make them something they are not.

And I simply disagree with this and always will. It IS the players fault if he can’t “bring it” in the 8th. Again, the Sox aren’t asking Kimbrel to play 3B. They are asking him to pitch in a slightly different inning, often times in higher leverage situations than the 9th may be (3-4-5 in the 8th for example)

Craig Kimbrel is a relief pitcher. That is his paid profession. Because of that, he should be expected to deliver outs when he comes out of the bullpen to pitch. If he can’t figure out the 8th from the 9th…that’s on the player who has the ball in his hands, not the executive in the skybox. If Rick asked him to player catcher…fine, that’s on the GM. That’s not what is happening here. Sorry.

[Chick Mercedes]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

And I simply disagree with this and always will. It IS the players fault if he can’t “bring it” in the 8th. Again, the Sox aren’t asking Kimbrel to play 3B. They are asking him to pitch in a slightly different inning, often times in higher leverage situations than the 9th may be (3-4-5 in the 8th for example)

Craig Kimbrel is a relief pitcher. That is his paid profession. Because of that, he should be expected to deliver outs when he comes out of the bullpen to pitch. If he can’t figure out the 8th from the 9th…that’s on the player who has the ball in his hands, not the executive in the skybox. If Rick asked him to player catcher…fine, that’s on the GM. That’s not what is happening here. Sorry.

so you would manage this way??? Make trades on this philosophy?

Edited October 11, 2021 by Chick Mercedes

[kitekrazy]

I was shocked by that HR by Leury.  Watching that ball land you;d think someone else hit it.

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Gio should not have been pitching then. Walks did indeed kill us in that game.

Im fine with Gio pitching but he shouldn't have gotten a second batter after walking the first.

But most importantly he has to go out there and make them beat him. 

[hankchifan]

11 minutes ago, chw42 said:

You know, in hindsight, Lynn didn't pitch that poorly in game 1. Cause Cease showed tonight that it can be much worse. 

Problem is that Lynn is not a good match up versus the fastball hitting Astros.

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

so you would manage this way??? Make trades on this philosophy?

You mean the same way Rick Hahn did? 
 

I, along with many others, thought it was a very good acquisition at the deadline. I was wrong. Rick was wrong. It didn’t work. I put most of that on the player failing to execute at his place of business. If Kimbrel was asked to roam CF and it wasn’t working, I’d cut him some more slack. But the relief pitcher is being asked to be a relief pitcher and he is doing it very badly, when before he was doing it quite well. The only difference is he is now doing his job about 20 Minutes earlier in the evening than he was asked to do it before. That’s an issue Craig needs to figure out. 

[hankchifan]

3 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I was shocked by that HR by Leury.  Watching that ball land you;d think someone else hit it.

Little guys can hit it a long way too.  Look at Altuve.

[Chick Mercedes]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

You mean the same way Rick Hahn did? 
 

I, along with many others, thought it was a very good acquisition at the deadline. I was wrong. Rick was wrong. It didn’t work. I put most of that on the player failing to execute at his place of business. If Kimbrel was asked to roam CF and it wasn’t working, I’d cut him some more slack. But the relief pitcher is being asked to be a relief pitcher and he is doing it very badly, when before he was doing it quite well. The only difference is he is now doing his job about 20 Minutes earlier in the evening than he was asked to do it before. That’s an issue Craig needs to figure out. 

SO, we should be able to ask any relief pitcher to do any job in the bullpen, and that is a sound request? This is not done sir.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I was shocked by that HR by Leury.  Watching that ball land you;d think someone else hit it.

I literally wrote in this thread that he was going to do it even before Baker made one of the worst moves I’ve ever seen.

[EloyJenkins]

Keep this going tomorrow!

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Problem is that Lynn is not a good match up versus the fastball hitting Astros.

No, he’s not a good matchup against them in Houston, for whatever reason. He is fine against them when they have a different ballpark, for whatever reason. ERA closing on 6 in Houston, ERA against Houston elsewhere in the low 3’s. Maybe the backdrop in Houston, maybe they’re cheating, maybe it’s mental for him, who cares it’s a multi year trend. He was literally why I was saying we should sell out more for home field advantage back in August - if game 5 was in Chicago he might throw a shutout. 

[Tony]

6 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

SO, we should be able to ask any relief pitcher to do any job in the bullpen, and that is a sound request? This is not done sir.

For a relief pitcher making 16 million dollars, asking them to pitch the 8th instead of the 9th doesn’t sound very unreasonable to me, Ms. 

Don’t really know any other way to say it. I expect him to perform. I guess I’d put it to you this way: As a 16 million dollar man, if asked about his poor performance, Kimbrel said:

“I just don’t like pitching the 8th inning. I can’t really get excited about it. My juices aren’t flowing them. And people can’t expect me to pitch in the 8th inning and be an impact player. I know other players are very successful in the 8th inning, but it just doesn’t interest me. I can’t help this team win unless I’m pitching the specific 1 inning I’m comfortable in. Not the 8th, not the 10th, but just in the 9th inning, when the game is on the line and when it’s only a save situation. Other than that, I really can’t be trusted.” - (*This is not a real Kimbrel quote)

You’d be ok with that? You’re on Kimbrel’s side? 

[joejoesox]

Here's Urquidy's game logs for 2021

https://www.mlb.com/player/jose-urquidy-664353?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2021

his last 3 outings haven't been dominant by any means, he's also only thrown 107 IP this year

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

No, he’s not a good matchup against them in Houston, for whatever reason. He is fine against them when they have a different ballpark, for whatever reason. ERA closing on 6 in Houston, ERA against Houston elsewhere in the low 3’s. Maybe the backdrop in Houston, maybe they’re cheating, maybe it’s mental for him, who cares it’s a multi year trend. He was literally why I was saying we should sell out more for home field advantage back in August - if game 5 was in Chicago he might throw a shutout. 

Between his knee and the fact the Astros are a top fastball hitting team, I don't believe Lynn would dominate any game against them, but do agree he must be all in for Game 4, whatever he has in the tank, and have Lucas start a potential Game 5.

In terms of the back and forth about Kimbrel, Tony is throwing smoke screens and covering for / protecting his pitcher when he mentions the role. Kimbrel was gassed by the deadline, pitching more the first four months than the past two seasons combined (same with Keuchel). He can still be an asset this postseason, just put him in clean situations, and have someone ready.

[ShoeLessRob]

The bleachers was electric. 

[chw42]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, he’s not a good matchup against them in Houston, for whatever reason. He is fine against them when they have a different ballpark, for whatever reason. ERA closing on 6 in Houston, ERA against Houston elsewhere in the low 3’s. Maybe the backdrop in Houston, maybe they’re cheating, maybe it’s mental for him, who cares it’s a multi year trend. He was literally why I was saying we should sell out more for home field advantage back in August - if game 5 was in Chicago he might throw a shutout. 

He should be the first one out of the bullpen tomorrow if Rodon falters.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

He should be the first one out of the bullpen tomorrow if Rodon falters.

?

[Chick Mercedes]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

For a relief pitcher making 16 million dollars, asking them to pitch the 8th instead of the 9th doesn’t sound very unreasonable to me, Ms. 

Don’t really know any other way to say it. I expect him to perform. I guess I’d put it to you this way. As a 16 million dollar man, if asked about his poor performance, Kimbrel said:

“I just don’t like pitching the 8th inning. I can’t really get excited about it. My juices aren’t flowing them. And people can’t expect me to pitch in the 8th inning and be an impact player. I know other players are very successful in the 8th inning, but it just doesn’t interest me. I can’t help this team win unless I’m pitching the specific 1 inning I’m comfortable in. Not the 8th, not the 10th, but just in the 9th inning, when the game is on the line and when it’s only a save situation. Other than that, I really can’t be trusted.” 

You’d be ok with that? You’re on Kimbrel’s side? 

This is very much like the conversations I used to have with my first wife. 
 

yeah, I mean people are what they are. He was paid only to do the job he was doing. He’s not good at anything else. If that is difficult to accept, one may not last long as a GM constantly making decisions based on this philosophy. Don’t shove a square peg into a round hole and all that. If that sounds like a good idea, it is not. After “dont try to reinvent the wheel, and “don’t shove a square peg in a round hole” I’m tapped out. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

This is very much like the conversations I used to have with my first wife. 
 

yeah, I mean people are what they are. He was paid only to do the job he was doing. He’s not good at anything else. If that is difficult to accept, one may not last long as a GM constantly making decisions based on this philosophy. Don’t shove a square peg into a round hole and all that. If that sounds like a good idea, it is not. After “dont try to reinvent the wheel, and “don’t shove a square peg in a round hole” I’m tapped out. 

Good discussion though. I'm not sure what Tony was doing  calling you Ms. unless I missed something. Didn't sound like an insult you calling him Sir. It was respectful. Everything else Tony said I agree with but can see your square peg in a round hole argument as well but for the money he's making you would thing he could pitch well in any situation. But Kimbrel is where he wanted to be and I feel for the guy with his daughters health. I hope he's got some bullets left for any other innings he's called upon to pitch.

[Tnetennba]

??

[Tony]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Good discussion though. I'm not sure what Tony was doing  calling you Ms. unless I missed something. Didn't sound like an insult you calling him Sir. It was respectful. Everything else Tony said I agree with but can see your square peg in a round hole argument as well but for the money he's making you would thing he could pitch well in any situation. But Kimbrel is where he wanted to be and I feel for the guy with his daughters health. I hope he's got some bullets left for any other innings he's called upon to pitch.

In most slang, a Chick is a female. Was trying to be accurate based on the username. 

[Tony]

23 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

This is very much like the conversations I used to have with my first wife. 
 

yeah, I mean people are what they are. He was paid only to do the job he was doing. He’s not good at anything else. If that is difficult to accept, one may not last long as a GM constantly making decisions based on this philosophy. Don’t shove a square peg into a round hole and all that. If that sounds like a good idea, it is not. After “dont try to reinvent the wheel, and “don’t shove a square peg in a round hole” I’m tapped out. 

So…I guess you’re saying you would be OK with Kimbrel saying that. I would not. Agree to disagree. 

[Chick Mercedes]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Good discussion though. I'm not sure what Tony was doing  calling you Ms. unless I missed something. Didn't sound like an insult you calling him Sir. It was respectful. Everything else Tony said I agree with but can see your square peg in a round hole argument as well but for the money he's making you would thing he could pitch well in any situation. But Kimbrel is where he wanted to be and I feel for the guy with his daughters health. I hope he's got some bullets left for any other innings he's called upon to pitch.

He’s trying. Its not like he complained about the eighth innings. He gave it all he had. I never actually heard of closers being resented for having such limited abilities. Anyway, a good manager is supposed to put their people in the right situations to succeed. People are referred to as individuals for a reason. They are different. Craig Kimbrel is not Ryan  Tepera. Asking them to do each others jobs is reasonable if they could, but foolish if they can’t. It becomes the team’s fault if they keep hitting their head against a brick wall. Shaking out fist at God and Kimbrel wont do any good between the lines