If we don't win at least one in this series...

[maloney.adam]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But where would we be now without having traded Sale, Eaton, Q…?   Not seeing why Hahn would be in huge demand, compared to assistants from the truly revolutionary front offices like LA, TB, SF, Milwaukee, etc.

We brag about our draft picks making the bigs, but how many are true high impact guys assuming Rodon leaves?   You still have just Anderson and the 50/50 coin flip fortune of Luis Robert signing for less money to hang your hat on.  

Collins, Burdi, Fulmer, Heuer and Madrigal are gone or worthless.  Jury still out on Crochet, Vaughn and Sheets.

Abreu isn’t high impact? Eloy I think can be if he can play a full 162 game season. Lynn is still a good starting pitcher and can be a bulldog in the rotation at times. Cease is improving each year. The team is still relatively young. Give them time to develop and gain some experience especially in the playoffs. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by maloney.adam

[maloney.adam]

James Fox retweeted this last night. Thoughts?

Edited October 9, 2021 by maloney.adam

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

I think Hahn’s job is safe here but I feel that if he is given an opportunity to go somewhere else he would take it. Most likely to an organization where he has more say or control over the decisions. Somewhere where the manager isn’t involved in the FO decisions and the owner allows him to hire his own people and doesn’t restrict how much money he spends to field a championship team.

He always had that option as an Asst. GM.  They only thing that kept him here is he was well paid.  Hahn's strength has been contracts. 

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

But where would we be now without having traded Sale, Eaton, Q…?   Not seeing why Hahn would be in huge demand, compared to assistants from the truly revolutionary front offices like LA, TB, SF, Milwaukee, etc.

We brag about our draft picks making the bigs, but how many are true high impact guys assuming Rodon leaves?   You still have just Anderson and the 50/50 coin flip fortune of Luis Robert signing for less money to hang your hat on.  

Collins, Burdi, Fulmer, Heuer and Madrigal are gone or worthless.  Jury still out on Crochet, Vaughn and Sheets.

When has this organization ever really been good at drafting this century?  How many guys are drafted with the weakness of catching a baseball or lacking in the basic fundamentals? People complain of about Reinsdorf being cheap but he values loyalty over performance. Too many former players and fans buy into that. That doesn't seem to produce. 

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

Abreu isn’t high impact? Eloy I think can be if he can play a full 162 game season. Lynn is still a good starting pitcher and can be a bulldog in the rotation at times. Cease is improving each year. The team is still relatively young. Give them time to develop and gain some experience especially in the playoffs. 

People seem to miss that.  Eloy and Robert have basically one full season.

[reiks12]

2 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Hahn has provided most of the parts necessary for a successful team during the rebuild, he has not managed them, so sacking him at this point would be harsh in my opinion. TLR was brought in (by Jerry) to win postseason games, so far he has shown no more ability to do that than Ricky R. 

Hahn hasnt shown the ability to make trades to get a team over the top. He can rebuild, but the rest of his tenure here has been pretty damn bad, and the 2021 trade deadline was a stark reminder of that.

 

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

James Fox retweeted this last night. Thoughts?

Hes right, look at our minor leagues. This franchise is so dysfunctional im worried we will turn into the Mets.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

James Fox retweeted this last night. Thoughts?

I mean he's right, which means that having HFA in a 5 games series like this is massive. And they didn't even try for it.

[Colome's Hat]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean he's right, which means that having HFA in a 5 games series like this is massive. And they didn't even try for it.

Or they could win a game 5 at Houston.  Like it's not impossible.  Honestly, knowing how good this team is at home, this will likely go to 5.  And despite Houston pwning us in the regular season, a game 5 in an ALDS is really a jump ball. 

[Chimpton]

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Hahn hasnt shown the ability to make trades to get a team over the top. He can rebuild, but the rest of his tenure here has been pretty damn bad, and the 2021 trade deadline was a stark reminder of that.

 

So he has rebuilt well but then you say the rest of his tenure has been bad, are you talking about before the rebuild? 

[maloney.adam]

 

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Jimenez is not one of the two best players at this point…btw.

Also, I reverse jinxed Iowa into a huge win, but that was only possible due to playing at home and Clifford being out for PSU.

Hopefully I can continue to work the same magic on the diamond, haha.  And can still be talking about White Sox baseball two weekends from now.

[Big Hurtin]

I'm hoping for a long ugly work stoppage.

[poppysox]

18 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

I'm hoping for a long ugly work stoppage.

Good chance your wish will come true.  Not an attractive picture with Billionaires and Millionaires arguing about money.

 

[hi8is]

If we don’t win at least one game this series I will eat a piece of pickled haring.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

I'm hoping for a long ugly work stoppage.

All the more reason not to commit to keeping Kimbrel and Hernandez…create a bit of financial flexibility moving forward, especially if there’s blowback on season ticket sales and marketing/sponsorship/promotions.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

If we don’t win at least one game this series I will eat a piece of pickled haring.

Herring?

[wegner]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

If we don’t win at least one game this series I will eat a piece of pickled haring.

Please don't...some sacrifices are not worth it....think of your family.

[GreenSox]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

 

Is just ONE win enough to put out the pitchforks for many?   Probably not...

 

How will you feel about the White Sox coming into next season, at least as things stand today?

How easily will you accept both TLR AND Hahn returning?  

 

I think this is judged more on whether the Sox win the division next year, and the next, versus whether they win tomorrow.
TLR is here because JR doesn't trust his FO (and for good reason).   Unfortunately, the team now gets 2 anchors:  Hahn AND TLR.

Edited October 10, 2021 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I think this is judged more on whether the Sox win the division next year, and the next, versus whether they win tomorrow.
TLR is here because JR doesn't trust his FO (and for good reason).   Unfortunately, the team now gets 2 anchors:  Hahn AND TLR.

Well, the comments after Game 2 on Kimbrel suggest there’s definitely a growing divide…or at least brought it out into public view.

 

(Just wish we could actually find out what the cost for Kris Bryant would have been, instead.)

[CentralChamps21]

At least win one game, otherwise the Sox won the same number of playoff games as the Cubs.

[Chick Mercedes]

“Professional hitters, good hitters down the lineup,” La Russa said. “They run the bases well. They play good defense.

“Must be an Astros thing.”

[hankchifan]

23 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

 

Is just ONE win enough to put out the pitchforks for many?   Probably not...

 

How will you feel about the White Sox coming into next season, at least as things stand today?

How easily will you accept both TLR AND Hahn returning?   Are you like many in the game thread who feel discouraged knowing nothing is likely to change all that dramatically as long as JR or a family member is the principal owner?  How optimistic are you that things (would) change with Jerry's son in charge of the franchise instead, like with the Bulls' new direction?

Do we spend the majority of the off-season ruminating about changes in the front office or ownership that are highly improbable to occur, knowing the way this franchise operates historically?

Do you expect any big changes, or do you think they'll be mostly cosmetic ones (a 2B or RF in the $6-8 million range, veteran relievers to replace Tepera/Kimbrel, etc.)...with the payroll still trending up (let's say $160-165 million), but no big or headline-grabbing moves, not even bringing in the likes of a veteran like Starling Marte?

Are we simply doomed to continue the AL Central's trend of losing playoff games dating back to the Cleveland Indians/Cubs 2016 World Series?

How much worse would it to be a Twins or Indians fan today...knowing how far those two teams are from competing if they trade Buxton and/or Jose Ramirez/Bieber?

 

I found my attention span drifting a bit without much of a pennant race for the majority of the second half, and due the overall "mediocre" player since the ASB.

I'll be honest in saying I was thoroughly unimpressed with the trade acquisitions (especially the Kimbrel one) and tried to get motivated again, staying up all night long here in China, but I really feel like I was punched in the face and not even sure how invested to be in Sunday's game (since another worknight/day).

I also felt that the chances of winning this series were (only) roughly 25-30%, based on the match-up earlier this season in Houston, their line-up of professional hitters, their extensive playoff experience and veteran "been there, done that" vibe was going to be an incredibly tough out for this team that struggled mightily even against the A's last post-season.

Nobody is probably SHOCKED right now, because we've ALREADY witnessed so many losses like this the last two weeks of 2020 and then off and on ever since the opening series in Anaheim this year.

 

I DO feel REALLY excited about watching Luis Robert bloom into a superstar before our eyes...but also a sense that we're a team comprised of many misfit parts and pretty likely to take a hit to the starting pitching in 2022, having a hard time believing Kopech can replace Rodon's performance seamlessly and that Lynn is probably more due for a falloff than expecting an uptick from Keuchel or Lopez or whatever "budget-savvy" veteran free agent pitcher they add to the mix.  But who knows, maybe Dylan Cease takes the next step and wins the Cy Young, right?

I'm also a bit bitter about losing both Madrigal and Heuer's years of control for that bone-headed Kimbrel move (that, once again, even our own manager's questioning why we added a HoF closer only to put him in a set-up role he wasn't well-suited for.)  And no, it's not on the level of my Fernando Tatis, Jr., obsession, lol.

 

For the Top 10-20 posters and all the various moderators at SoxTalk (now in their 30's and 40's with families and grown-up responsibilities/reality or maybe Covid-19 intruding), do you feel like it will be easy to reignite your excitement again when spring training rolls around, or you're still going to feel that same sense of waiting for the next TLR headline or embarrassing manager move that everyone could see coming pages ahead in a GameThread?

I've come to really admire those posters like Fathom and Dick Allen and many of the moderators who are there game in and game out, or Elrockin (Greg's favorite perpetually optimistic fan)...but I also woke up wondering after a 30-45 minute nap why do we keep putting ourselves through this season after season?

Obviously, some will argue that at least expecting to make the post-season is 50-100X better than 2009-2019, but there were times I really enjoyed watching the direction of the franchise (2016-2019) that it was ALMOST as fun, if not moreso.  I guess it's partly due to the expectation all that rebuilding was going to eventually lead to playoff wins and, if not another World Series, at LEAST the ALCS, even though by definition not being able to win like the Royals/Cubs/Astros did out of a massive rebuild will always be considered a failure of sorts by most Sox fans.

 

I guess it's back to that curse of being a White Sox fan, most of us through family connections or 2005.

Just like PTAC, I'm sure that I will get over my anger/frustration and start to enjoy the playoffs and sport of baseball again at some point...although maybe not until the heart of the free agent signing period if it's the Dodgers or Red Sox/Astros yet again.

 

Of course, I say this same exact thing every year about Iowa Hawkeyes FB and BB, and still never give up hope despite all the odds in the world being stacked against them ever winning a national championship in either sport...so at least the White Sox have MUCH better odds than approximately 1 in 150 or 1 in 200, right?

 

Just some random thoughts (by Jack Handey), mostly venting but in a free-style version.

P.S.  The White Sox will HOPEFULLY run off 3 in a row and make me look like an idiot, but, just in case, you probably don't want to bet on the Iowa Hawkeyes against Penn State this weekend, haha.

 

TL/DR, haha.

 

Thanks for excellent post.  I will not easily accept TLR and Hahn coming back.  They screwed up this season and wasted a big opportunity with the bad trade deadline acquisitions and the many bone headed TLR in game decisions ,and the bull shit resting strategy with the frequent Sunday lineups which gave away HFA.  Maybe JR’s son will turn out as well as Wirtz’s son with the Blackhawks that revived the team, but I am not holding my breath. I ‘ll happily eat some crow if we win 3 in a row...

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

Or they could win a game 5 at Houston.  Like it's not impossible.  Honestly, knowing how good this team is at home, this will likely go to 5.  And despite Houston pwning us in the regular season, a game 5 in an ALDS is really a jump ball. 

It was easier to get the HFA than winning a game 5 in Houston.

[Tnetennba]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:18 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

TLR was not the answer as manager, this was a mediocre team after the All Star break with a lot of questionable moves by LaRussa which has continued in the first 2 games against the Astros. We won the division in spite of bim. Hiring him was another bad move by Reinsdorf in a long list of many.

TLR was not and is not the answer.  Post season chances are rare for this club and he shouldn’t be allowed to steer this  talented yet flawed team into another early exit.  Unfortunately his fate is not results based.