The problem with the top 6 in the lineup

[Chimpton]

5 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Individually, Tim Anderson, Luis Robert, Jose Abreu, Yasmani Grandal, Eloy Jimenez and Yoan Moncada are all very valuable players, but they may actually be a case where the whole is not as great as the sum of the parts.

As a group, they have very similar weaknesses: swinging at too many pitches outside the zone, too many ground balls, and lack of power vs RHP.

How many times this season have we seen this group go 2-20 or something like that against a righty with a decent slider, even one who has a 4+ ERA against other opponents. We usually end up directing our vitriol at Cesar Hernandez or Leury Garcia during these games, so we may not have noticed how bad our top 6 did.

Is this offseason the time to see if one of them can get traded for a lefty power bat and/or a controlled starting pitcher?

I would hate to see any of them go, but I would understand why if it happens.

But actually those 6 players have barely been on the field together this season due to injuries. Is as much of the problem the batting order as opposed to the individual players? Abreu followed by Grandal in the order is not ideal. And does TLR move Robert around too much? He is the crown jewel in this team, surely you find the best spot for him and fit the others around him.

[ShoeLessRob]

54 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Yes.  Hernandez put together a genuinely good at bat which resulted in a walk.  He has killed the Astros over his career. Nothing to lose.  If they really want Leury, put him in RF and put Engel in after the sixth inning.

You want Leury in RF? Are you blind? 

[Colome's Hat]

1 minute ago, ShoeLessRob said:

You want Leury in RF? Are you blind? 

He's hitting more than Engel.  I think you take him out after the fifth or sixth.  If we are agree taht we need to play Leury, I don't know where else to put him.  Because Engel is not hitting and Cesar is at least putting together quality at bats.

[ShoeLessRob]

2 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

He's hitting more than Engel.  I think you take him out after the fifth or sixth.  If we are agree taht we need to play Leury, I don't know where else to put him.  Because Engel is not hitting and Cesar is at least putting together quality at bats.

His in ability to make catches in RF over shadows his “hitting” skills. We already have enough liability in the OF. 
 

He has done nothing this series to show he needs to be in the starting lineup, besides being TLR’s favorite player. Then again the other options, Cesar and Engel, offer very little as well. 
 

And Cesar had 2 at bats, first one he struck out on like 4-5 pitches, looked awful. Cool he got a walk his second trip. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

His in ability to make catches in RF over shadows his “hitting” skills. We already have enough liability in the OF. 
 

He has done nothing this series to show he needs to be in the starting lineup, besides being TLR’s favorite player. Then again the other options, Cesar and Engel, offer very little as well. 
 

And Cesar had 2 at bats, first one he struck out on like 4-5 pitches, looked awful. Cool he got a walk his second trip. 

Speaking of RF, turns to Brewers game, sees Avi with 29 dingers, Narvaez and Escobar and feels more annoyed.  But good for them.   

The NL pitchers aren't messing around this postseason.

[HOFHurt35]

8 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Individually, Tim Anderson, Luis Robert, Jose Abreu, Yasmani Grandal, Eloy Jimenez and Yoan Moncada are all very valuable players, but they may actually be a case where the whole is not as great as the sum of the parts.

As a group, they have very similar weaknesses: swinging at too many pitches outside the zone, too many ground balls, and lack of power vs RHP.

How many times this season have we seen this group go 2-20 or something like that against a righty with a decent slider, even one who has a 4+ ERA against other opponents. We usually end up directing our vitriol at Cesar Hernandez or Leury Garcia during these games, so we may not have noticed how bad our top 6 did.

Is this offseason the time to see if one of them can get traded for a lefty power bat and/or a controlled starting pitcher?

I would hate to see any of them go, but I would understand why if it happens.

I don't trust or will ever trust Rick Hahn making another trade for veteran help. 

 

[pcq]

2 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

His in ability to make catches in RF over shadows his “hitting” skills. We already have enough liability in the OF. 
 

He has done nothing this series to show he needs to be in the starting lineup, besides being TLR’s favorite player. Then again the other options, Cesar and Engel, offer very little as well. 
 

And Cesar had 2 at bats, first one he struck out on like 4-5 pitches, looked awful. Cool he got a walk his second trip. 

Leury is a no go please. 

[CentralChamps21]

7 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I don't trust or will ever trust Rick Hahn making another trade for veteran help. 

 

Trading for Lynn worked out. I think making trades in the offseason brings better value than at the deadline.

[greg775]

Obviously they all are capable of lift and pulling their fair share of homers. None in Houston won't cut it. If Sox blast 3 a game in The Cell, it's going back to Houston baby.

It's pretty easy to dissect nowadays. They are all trying to hit it out so they better connect collectively or Sox are done. Eloy is still gonna be a star, folks. Got to keep these core guys healthy next season.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I don't trust or will ever trust Rick Hahn making another trade for veteran help. 

 

On the other hand, if Sox had won just one game in Houston, Hahn would be in the running for a lifetime contract. Sox would be the talk of the town, likely on their way to another round.

[kitekrazy]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:17 AM, caulfield12 said:

Anderson, Abreu and Robert are going nowhere.  Eloy, maybe.  Not many LH hitting 3B, so hard to get rid of Moncada or Grandal for that matter.   But what is Jimenez’s value at this point?   65-70 cents on the dollar, just like Madrigal/Heuer.

Buying high and selling low over the long term usually ends up in a limited roster.

Same with trading Vaughn.

Of course, Sheets has some pop but no position as the roster is currently constituted.

People expect too much from players who haven't played a lot at the big league level.  There's never a shortage of knee jerk wannabe GMs.  I could see something like this on a pre WS Cubs forum.  Sometimes tinkering too much causes regression.

[Bob Sacamano]

Do the same lineup as yesterday.

[CentralChamps21]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:11 AM, CentralChamps21 said:

Individually, Tim Anderson, Luis Robert, Jose Abreu, Yasmani Grandal, Eloy Jimenez and Yoan Moncada are all very valuable players, but they may actually be a case where the whole is not as great as the sum of the parts.

As a group, they have very similar weaknesses: swinging at too many pitches outside the zone, too many ground balls, and lack of power vs RHP.

How many times this season have we seen this group go 2-20 or something like that against a righty with a decent slider, even one who has a 4+ ERA against other opponents. We usually end up directing our vitriol at Cesar Hernandez or Leury Garcia during these games, so we may not have noticed how bad our top 6 did.

Is this offseason the time to see if one of them can get traded for a lefty power bat and/or a controlled starting pitcher?

I would hate to see any of them go, but I would understand why if it happens.

These 5 (no Moncada yet) are 28 for 150 (.187) vs RHP, 8 XBH, 7 BB, 34K.

I got blasted for suggesting the Sox needed to trade one of these six, specifically Eloy because he's not even average defensively at any position.

I was told the solution was to just sign good lefty bats for 2B and RF.

The problem with that solution is that it was a very narrow path. Those were high demand positions and the cost was high. Eloy could have gotten a cost-controlled guy at 2B or RF and probably more.

[ShoeLessRob]

I’m bout ready to jettison Eloy, he is always injured, has no spot on defense, and hasn’t looked the same since he returned from that injury last year. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

I’m bout ready to jettison Eloy, he is always injured, has no spot on defense, and hasn’t looked the same since he returned from that injury last year. 

Everyone else sees the same thing.  Eloy's value is the in shitter.  You can't trade him now.  

[ChiSox59]

The real problem - that is only made worse by no Moncada, Yaz looking rough so far this year, and Sheets looking like the AAAA player he probably is - is this team is still WAYYYYYYYY too right handed.  It wasn't exactly hard to see.  Hahn said adding a good lefty stick was a priority this offseason.  Still baffling there wasn't more effort to solve this blatant lineup issue this offseason.  

[Rowand44]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The real problem - that is only made worse by no Moncada, Yaz looking rough so far this year, and Sheets looking like the AAAA player he probably is - is this team is still WAYYYYYYYY too right handed.  It wasn't exactly hard to see.  Hahn said adding a good lefty stick was a priority this offseason.  Still baffling there wasn't more effort to solve this blatant lineup issue this offseason.  

Agreed on all points.  Yaz will be fine and getting Yoan’s obp back in the lineup will certainly help but ya, it’s incredible that a weakness that everyone knew about(and like you said, Hahn called out himself) wasn’t addressed in the off-season. 

[Balta1701]

Minnesota is starting 3 righties this weekend, none of them are close to Bieber quality, and Pollock is back, so this will be interesting to watch in the context of their righty struggles.

[turnin' two]

I can't believe we are having a conversation about the top 6 hitters without including Leury. 

[Polar Bear]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:11 AM, CentralChamps21 said:

Is this offseason the time to see if one of them can get traded for a lefty power bat and/or a controlled starting pitcher?

I would hate to see any of them go, but I would understand why if it happens.

Tim Anderson for Oneil Cruz, get it done Hahn ? ? ? ? ?